President Has The 'Rona

[TheFatMan]

3 minutes ago, MediMike said:

Ooof.  I'd recommend to not engage buddy. Never goes well. 

Yeah I'll probably bow out now haha.

[Boatswain2PA]

41 minutes ago, TheFatMan said:

I'm not seeing a diagnosis in that tweet. Looks like an observation to me. It isn't all that hard to tell if someone is short of breath or in pain on television... One does not need to be in the same room to see that.

I guess you are right, just seems about as whorish as docs who "specialize" in testifying for plaintiff based malpractice 

 

17 minutes ago, MediMike said:

oof.  I'd recommend to not engage buddy. Never goes well. 

come on Mike.  There is lots of engagement here without the name calling.

[CAAdmission]

1 hour ago, Reality Check 2 said:

I will continue to wear a mask and do smart things.

I'm forced to wonder where the cost/benefit cutoff is for wearing masks. If 61,000 people can die of the flu in a year, shouldn't we all wear masks annually during flu season?

 

 

[CAAdmission]

1 hour ago, EMEDPA said:

Politics aside. There is a lower age limit to be president (36). I would impose an upper age limit as well, tied to social security eligibility age. Sure, there are some folks who are super bright at 90, but I would imagine they were sharper at 65. Would also apply it to supreme court judges and create a reasonable term limits structure for congress. There have been folks who served close to 50 years in congress before, like this fellow:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strom_Thurmond. That was not the intent of the framers of the constitution. Jefferson believed folks should serve a defined term, then rotate back into civilian life.

http://eyler.freeservers.com/JeffPers/jefpco33.htm

Uh oh. In this thread so far we have decided to ignore the Americans with Disabilities Act for high level-politicians and now we are demonstrating ageism. If someone appears unfit for office on the basis of age or disability, the party should not nominate that candidate and/or the voters should not vote for them.

JFK had a host of medical problems and was wacked up on steroids and amphetamines for much of his time in office. 

 

1 hour ago, EMEDPA said:

Jefferson believed folks should serve a defined term, then rotate back into civilian life.

He was spot-on, 100% correct. Unfortunately our system evolved otherwise. 

[CAAdmission]

1 hour ago, EMEDPA said:

100% of their baseline, not some ideal 100%.

I guess I worry when 100% of their baseline appears to be about 40% of my baseline.

[MediMike]

23 minutes ago, CJAdmission said:

I'm forced to wonder where the cost/benefit cutoff is for wearing masks. If 61,000 people can die of the flu in a year, shouldn't we all wear masks annually during flu season?

 

 

I mean...yes. 

[MediMike]

1 hour ago, Boatswain2PA said:

come on Mike.  There is lots of engagement here without the name calling.

That was in regards to engaging with a specific poster who consistently argues from a non-science based platform, doesn't acknowledge EBM sources and just riles things up in general. 

Search the post history. Things inevitably deteriorate. Strongly encourage the current conversation to continue. 

[Boatswain2PA]

2 hours ago, Reality Check 2 said:

Boats and Camoman are way out there - not a discussion - a lecture.

I'm sorry you feel that way.  While you and I are way apart politically, I always thought you had a lot to offer conversations (once we get past your apparent TDS that is).

I feel the anti maskers are the political equivalent as the "orange man bad".  Opposite beliefs, but beliefs based on intense feelings that are firmly entrenched and unchangeable.

[ventana]

6 hours ago, WakadanPA said:

Yeah okay..but my question is to you and the other medical professionals on this forum. Maybe I should rephrase so as to not get these 'defend Trump at all costs' responses: In your medical opinion, should the president of these United States of America have stayed at the Walter Reed medical facility to continue his treatment for CoVid-19 until his SARS-CoV-2 nasopharyngeal swab test or antibody assay came back negative for the virus? Can you answer that very specific question?

maybe not in the hospital, but doing photo ops, and redoing them, pretty much the same day the CDC finally (and hopefully for the final time) said this is airborne shows a basic disregard for other humans that is staggering.  Just keep the darn mask on an carry on.....

 

isolated at home (WH) would be fine....  but driving around and exposing the SS and their families is selfish beyond belief 

[FiremedicMike]

Now I'm reading that "ethicists" are grinding their teeth about the president getting special treatment..

 

1. I didn't know ethicists were a thing

2. Seriously, every leader of every nation in the history of the world has been given special treatment and access to the best of the best which isn't available to us mere mortals.

 

There's things to be mad at Trump about.. But then there's the media, working tirelessly to invent things to be mad at Trump about.

 

[MediMike]

4 minutes ago, FiremedicMike said:

Now I'm reading that "ethicists" are grinding their teeth about the president getting special treatment..

 

1. I didn't know ethicists were a thing

2. Seriously, every leader of every nation in the history of the world has been given special treatment and access to the best of the best which isn't available to us mere mortals.

 

There's things to be mad at Trump about.. But then there's the media, working tirelessly to invent things to be mad at Trump about.

 

Ethicists are an interesting breed. Will tell you if you ever work inpatient don't waste your time with an ethics consult. Pretty rare they side with the provider team.

Most of the teeth grinding I've seen is in regards to statements from the administration to not be scared of the virus etc from individuals with access to care far above and beyond the majority of folks in the world.

Completely agree that prior presidents and world leaders have always received the best if the best, doubt Eisenhower said "Heart attacks? Meehhhhhhh. It's fine, don't worry about heart attacks".(Likely a false comparative, at that time it is entirely possible people were told not to worry about heart attacks and/or should eat.more meat to toughen up)

How about FDR probably didn't tell people not to worry about polio? Or strokes? 

...too soon?

[camoman1234]

23 hours ago, TheFatMan said:

Not really that hard...

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v3
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06067-8
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.10.20190348v1

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342198360_Association_of_country-wide_coronavirus_mortality_with_demographics_testing_lockdowns_and_public_wearing_of_masks_Update_June_15_2020

And many, many more.

Not sure actually read these but just posted articles. Go back and actually read the articles to understand what your missing. Look at the Tyson plant in Arkansas or the Diamond cruise ship.

[camoman1234]

23 hours ago, Reality Check 2 said:

I am stepping out on this one.

Boats and Camoman are way out there - not a discussion - a lecture.

I will continue to wear a mask and do smart things.

I will vote how I wish.

Science is still real and needs a boost right now.

Good day to everyone.

How come you run everytime I bring up a topic or ask a question. How can we ever as a society get things figured out if we just run from everything and everyone we disagree with. Yes I look at EBM and there are numerous amounts of articles from the 90s and early to mid 2000s showing masks are ineffective. How come you dont believe those studies? I also like how you say we are way out there but have evidence and proof to back up our claims. This is the frustration we have right now in government as people like to ignore the other side and wont listen to them. I hope you open up your mind one day. It will better our society.

[camoman1234]

@MediMike I truly dont want my post to come off as annoying or trolling. I'm simI'y questioning the validity of masking. Please read this article and go to the bottom and read the last 2 paragraphs if you dont want to read the entire thing. He explains exactly what I have been saying. There is some reduction of viral loads in droplets but who certain mask, worn the correct way and not touched a million times a day. Also isn't it effective for me to cough or sneeze in my shirt or elbow or hold my nose (yes I do this but I understand it may hurt others). Because I take my mask off and pretty much everyone else I have seen so this and sneeze in their elbow etc. So the mail reason for wearing a mask is from breathing and talking....? So where is that line of talking, breathing etc? Do we not communicate or social distance for the rest of our lives? Why dont we do this during flu season? These are my issues. Also I believe people are spreading the virus more with wearing a mask all day long, touching it, messing with it, adjusting it etc then touch the door knob or pen without cleaning their hands. This is my main issue with mask! Of course certain madk such as N95 work or I would have been sick in TB rooms. But for a mesh or single layer cloth mask that is touched a million times a day and most likely not cleaned nightly are masking things worse. 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/do-masks-work/

[Reality Check 2]

Camoman - 

MASKS WORK - WEAR ONE

ADVISE OTHERS TO WEAR ONE

The virus is airborne and lingers in the air. We have proven that - the stuff hangs out in the expelled air.

Singing is worst, talking is bad. My deep sighs of frustration offer a great deal of exhalation. 

Contact transmission has been shown to be less of an issue than previously thought.

I am so done with arguing this repeatedly when we KNOW IT WORKS.

I am OUT of this - tired of beating my head on a rock for this.

Do what you want. Leave me alone.

[CAAdmission]

4 minutes ago, Reality Check 2 said:

Singing is worst

You never heard me sing. It's totally worth the risk. Voice like an angel. 

[MediMike]

18 minutes ago, camoman1234 said:

@MediMike I truly dont want my post to come off as annoying or trolling. I'm simI'y questioning the validity of masking. Please read this article and go to the bottom and read the last 2 paragraphs if you dont want to read the entire thing. He explains exactly what I have been saying. There is some reduction of viral loads in droplets but who certain mask, worn the correct way and not touched a million times a day. Also isn't it effective for me to cough or sneeze in my shirt or elbow or hold my nose (yes I do this but I understand it may hurt others). Because I take my mask off and pretty much everyone else I have seen so this and sneeze in their elbow etc. So the mail reason for wearing a mask is from breathing and talking....? So where is that line of talking, breathing etc? Do we not communicate or social distance for the rest of our lives? Why dont we do this during flu season? These are my issues. Also I believe people are spreading the virus more with wearing a mask all day long, touching it, messing with it, adjusting it etc then touch the door knob or pen without cleaning their hands. This is my main issue with mask! Of course certain madk such as N95 work or I would have been sick in TB rooms. But for a mesh or single layer cloth mask that is touched a million times a day and most likely not cleaned nightly are masking things worse. 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/do-masks-work/

The last two paragraphs start off with and consist only of anecdotal statements and opinions.  Of the three studies cited in this individual's article, two support wearing masks as being beneficial in preventing the spread of CV19, the one study involving the four patients and the petri dishes which showed some viral transmission possible during coughs (known factor) and viral loads on the outside of the masks and not inside was retracted by the authors due to methodological issues  in their viral sampling and testing. The entirety of the article actually supports masking.

Should we be masking during flu season? Probably.

So far the evidence seems to support masking as a means of reducing community transmission. 

[MediMike]

8 minutes ago, CJAdmission said:

You never heard me sing. It's totally worth the risk. Voice like an angel. 

Lucifer was an angel...

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

On 10/6/2020 at 1:25 PM, MediMike said:

Ooof.  I'd recommend to not engage buddy. Never goes well. 

 

On 10/6/2020 at 1:29 PM, TheFatMan said:

Yeah I'll probably bow out now haha.

Camoman has been presented an abundance of evidence in another thread. If people want that discussed, take it to PM.

[EMEDPA]

Ok, back on track. The difference between covid and influenza is that there is a functional vaccine for influenza. Is it a good idea to wear a mask during flu season anyway if you are at high risk? Probably. I imagine flu rates will be much lower this year, both due to masking and my assumption that more folks will get flu shots. Covid plus influenza is bad news. I have personally only seen one, but one was enough. Intubated on arrival, flown to a place that had ecmo. died anyway.

[CAAdmission]

38 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

Ok, back on track. The difference between covid and influenza is that there is a functional vaccine for influenza. Is it a good idea to wear a mask during flu season anyway if you are at high risk? Probably. 

Just to play devil's advocate (since I sing like Lucifer) right now your mask is not really primarily being used to protect you - they are being used to protect other people from you (unless you are wearing an N95 mask). They are not for high risk people, they are for everyone. 

If this is the case, and there are possibly ~50,000 deaths annually from the flu, shouldn't we mandate that everyone wear a mask every year during the entirety of flu season? I mean, if it saves even one life, isn't it worth it?

 

[ohiovolffemtp]

Observation: arguing over the internet, whether on message boards, email threads, etc, is a lot like wrestling with a pig in mud.  You won't win, and the pig will enjoy it.

Observation #2: it took me many years ('cause I go back to before email started and before the internet started) to learn this.

[MediMike]

47 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

Ok, back on track. The difference between covid and influenza is that there is a functional vaccine for influenza. Is it a good idea to wear a mask during flu season anyway if you are at high risk? Probably. I imagine flu rates will be much lower this year, both due to masking and my assumption that more folks will get flu shots. Covid plus influenza is bad news. I have personally only seen one, but one was enough. Intubated on arrival, flown to a place that had ecmo. died anyway.

ECMO is definitely not a panacea. And I agree, if masking during flu season can prevent transmission...why WOULDN'T we do it?

Edit:

@CJAdmission just saw your reply to the thread. Thinks that's a completely applicable question. With that being said, I haven't seen data on influenza transmission and masking, are you familiar with any? And what are your thoughts on the statement? Balancing the wear and tear on the environment (masks are the new chip wrappers littering the roads) and social interaction issues with possible deaths?

Edited October 7, 2020 by MediMike

[TheFatMan]

2 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

Not sure actually read these but just posted articles. Go back and actually read the articles to understand what your missing. Look at the Tyson plant in Arkansas or the Diamond cruise ship.

So just to be clear, you asked for EBM, got EBM, dismissed it without looking at it, and then provided anecdotes as a rebuttal.

Okay, I'm done now.

[EMEDPA]

Covid is going to be around for a long time. Even once we have a vaccine some folks won't get it. Also, no vaccine is 100%. Some folks will still get it, just like folks who get the flu shot and later get influenza. I predict that masks will become a part of our culture for years to come.