President Has The 'Rona

[ventana]

10 hours ago, ANESMCR said:

I’m not here to disparage other posters but this is RICH coming from Boats. The guy that dismisses everyone’s view that challenge his own. Baits and gaslights others. Dismisses newer posters in a creepy ‘Internet forum-like’ “elite status” manner similar to the huddle mentality-as if his longstanding history makes him better than others and his opinions more worthwhile. The questioning of those who haven’t been PA’s as long as he has. The blatant plagiarism/copy and pasting of far right talking points, almost like watching fox and friends in the morning. Like talking to a brick wall, literally. I answered his questions and was blocked immediately. 

Please speak up when there is blatant copy/paste of far right or left talking points.   I think everyone needs to know that is what is going on.  

[Reality Check 2]

There are NO NAMES of leaders in this article but the points are clear and valid.
 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2029812

[CAAdmission]

For the NEJM to compare what was possible/was done in China with what was done in the US is a little absurd. China held people home at gunpoint and welded their doors shut. China is an oppressive, genocidal regime with no regard for human life. It was reported that physicians who wanted to highlight the growing emergency disappeared. There's less of a drug problem in China, too. Because they kill you over illegal drugs. 

Is that the 'leadership" you want?

Edited October 11, 2020 by CJAdmission

[ANESMCR]

1 hour ago, CJAdmission said:

For the NEJM to compare what was possible/was done in China with what was done in the US is a little absurd. China held people home at gunpoint and welded their doors shut. China is an oppressive, genocidal regime with no regard for human life. It was reported that physicians who wanted to highlight the growing emergency disappeared. There's less of a drug problem in China, too. Because they kill you over illegal drugs. 

Is that the 'leadership" you want?

Totally agree with you. But you know, we all know, that was merely used as an example to highlight the effectiveness of social distancing. And that’s it. 

[camoman1234]

On 10/8/2020 at 3:46 PM, MediMike said:

You LITERALLY posted an article defending your position which quoted the "4 people coughing in a petri dish" study which was subsequently retracted. 

This is why you are considered a troll. 

I did? I do not remember posting this article on 4 people....? Show me evidence of this. As I truly do not remember. 

 

On 10/7/2020 at 1:03 PM, MediMike said:

The last two paragraphs start off with and consist only of anecdotal statements and opinions.  Of the three studies cited in this individual's article, two support wearing masks as being beneficial in preventing the spread of CV19, the one study involving the four patients and the petri dishes which showed some viral transmission possible during coughs (known factor) and viral loads on the outside of the masks and not inside was retracted by the authors due to methodological issues  in their viral sampling and testing. The entirety of the article actually supports masking.

Should we be masking during flu season? Probably.

So far the evidence seems to support masking as a means of reducing community transmission. 

I think you didn't read above, I said read the last two paragraphs as I agree with his statements, never did I state I agreed with all the research studies. A lot of these studies (the newer ones) coming out are not completed in the best way, not enough "N" and not a good quality test completed. 

 

On 10/9/2020 at 9:37 AM, ventana said:

untrue

how can you say it is decreased options when there are MILLIONS of people insured that previously were not- and that they will LOOSE insurance if ACA is repealed.   The only options that have been eliminated are the cheap policies that basically underinsured your for less money - I have a few friends with these policies in the early 2000's and they were awful when they got hurt.  They didn't really cover anything.

as for costs - you have to look at the total spent on health care

USA leads the world by a staggering amount on spending per capita on health care

due to not having a universal health care and the insurance companies wanting to make money we spend FAR more for FAR less then any other country....

 

ACA is not responsible for increasing costs, it is shifting costs to a more universal system.  

 

The issue the republicans have is preserving the profits of the insurance companies under the guise of "personal responsibility" instead of society has the responsibility to protect it's citizens.  

 

If we look and realize that something like 70% of health care is already paid for by public/gov't entities (Medicare, medicaid, VA, disability and the like....) then the only thing that seems reasonable is to have a universal health care program.  As tRump has only want to repeal ACA, and has not offered anything to replace it - he is indeed trying to take insurance away from millions. 

Just cause you have insurance from the market place does not mean you can AFFORD to use it....it happens more than you think. Working in a rural area makes this even more known when people come in once a year or every 2 years cause they cannot afford their spend down or their deductible is too high. 

 

On 10/9/2020 at 9:51 AM, FiremedicMike said:

@mcclanenot sure why the thumbs down, I'm legitimately trying to hear opposing viewpoints.

 

@mcclane this poster gave me a thumbs down on CDC flu statistics.  

 

On 10/9/2020 at 3:57 PM, EMEDPA said:

Agree- I have one per diem job to pay for health care for myself and my family. It is slightly more than 20k/yr for 3 of us. Would I be willing to pay more taxes to not have to pay 20k for health insurance? You bet. Would that also assure that everyone I see in the ER can afford their antibiotics, etc? Yup. Win/win. 

The US is the only industrialized nation without a universal health care system. Our outcomes for most issues are not as good as many of these nations. Yes, we have cutting-edge medications and procedures here, but at the cost of worse outcomes for routine stuff like 1st year childhood mortality.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-start

I agree with your statement. This is also true due to the fact of the FOOD we SHOVE in our faces. We let Bayer spray all our food and genetically modify it and we have more fast food than anyone else in the world. We do not do a good job of PREVENTING disease, but we do a HELL of a job in treatment of disease. Our government should FIRST DO NO HARM and quit sleeping in bed with companies. 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

2 points:

first, a reminder if someone wants to discuss masks with Camoman, take it to PM. A whole thread has already been dedicated to that subject very recently.or restart that thread. I believe it’s still open.

second @camoman1234, while double posting or even triple posting can be overlooked once in a while, please try to utilize the multi quote feature to unify everything in a single post. It makes for much easier reading and thread flow.

edit to add, some posts of yours have been merged to improve readability

[camoman1234]

On 10/10/2020 at 10:03 AM, ANESMCR said:

I’m not here to disparage other posters but this is RICH coming from Boats. The guy that dismisses everyone’s view that challenge his own. Baits and gaslights others. Dismisses newer posters in a creepy ‘Internet forum-like’ “elite status” manner similar to the huddle mentality-as if his longstanding history makes him better than others and his opinions more worthwhile. The questioning of those who haven’t been PA’s as long as he has. The blatant plagiarism/copy and pasting of far right talking points, almost like watching fox and friends in the morning. Like talking to a brick wall, literally. I answered his questions and was blocked immediately. 

Biden and Pelosi sure think their 4 decades make them better than everyone else....

[deltawave]

That editorial from NEJM is trash. Just another spiteful hit piece. There is nothing that any other president would have done differently that would have made an impact nationally. It’s a worldwide pandemic with extraordinary virulence in a world connected like never before. It was going to hit here, regardless how it was handled. People have died throughout the world, and with a truly unknown N.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, but I still don’t see anyone promoting anything that would have practically and logically prevented the spread of this virus. Largely, local policies driven by local assessments and needs should be and should have been the order of the day.

 

[ventana]

On 10/11/2020 at 12:36 PM, deltawave said:

That editorial from NEJM is trash. Just another spiteful hit piece. There is nothing that any other president would have done differently that would have made an impact nationally. It’s a worldwide pandemic with extraordinary virulence in a world connected like never before. It was going to hit here, regardless how it was handled. People have died throughout the world, and with a truly unknown N Hindsight

What.

really?

seriously? 
 

yeah right down playing, lying about the danger, removing and forcing out life long scientists who disagree with him.  Where is CDC?  They have been sidelined. 
 

never before have I seen politics overtake science and medicine this way.  The only thing we have in a pandemic, epidemic is science and medicine and the amazing lack of respect tRump has shown medicine/science is revolting.  My god he was promoting a treatment (and still does) that has been disproven and dangerous.  He himself hosted a superspreader event.  He is walking around coughing Covid all over his staff due to not wearing a mask.  His rallies go against even basic epidemiology advice.  
 

please don’t not try to convince the knowledge scientific PAs on this board that tRump did anything but a horrible job managing this epidemic.   

[CAAdmission]

1 hour ago, ventana said:

please don’t not try to convince the knowledge scientific PAs on this board that tRump did anything but a horrible job managing this epidemic.   

Ok, please answer this: The death rate from covid in New York is much higher than most states. State officials also acknowledge that known Covid patients were sent back into nursing homes. Yet Gov. Cuomo is lauded for the way he handled the epidemic.

Why is that?

Edited October 12, 2020 by CJAdmission

[ANESMCR]

22 minutes ago, CJAdmission said:

Ok, please answer this: The death rate from covid in New York is much higher than most states. State officials also acknowledge that known Covid patients were sent back into nursing homes. Yet Gov. Cuomo is lauded for the way he handled the epidemic.

Why is that?

Like ordering the incorrect imaging study, wrong labs, or medication. You F up, you reverse course, fix your stupid mistake, and learn from it. Trump keeps doing the same shit to the same patient over and over again. That’s why. Also, gov. Cuomo isn’t the supposed leader of the free world. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by ANESMCR

[MediMike]

47 minutes ago, CJAdmission said:

Ok, please answer this: The death rate from covid in New York is much higher than most states. State officials also acknowledge that known Covid patients were sent back into nursing homes. Yet Gov. Cuomo is lauded for the way he handled the epidemic.

Why is that?

Again, maybe it was Boats that I had this exchange with rather than you...but other than a single nursing home where do you have any evidence that the exposures came from those patients rather than the underpaid workers who have multiple part time jobs between various facilities? And even the single one in the news says that they haven't traces their outbreak to a discharged patient.

Also...the requirement was for SNFs who could safely take them rather than a mandate that every facility takes everyone regardless.

30 minutes ago, ANESMCR said:

Like ordering the incorrect imaging study, wrong labs, or medication. You F up, you reverse course, fix your stupid mistake, and learn from it. Trump keeps doing the same shit to the same patient over and over again. That’s why. Also, gov. Cuomo isn’t the supposed leader of the free world. 

Very good point. When it was shown that there may be an issue with their response they adapted and made changes, there was regular information disseminated, open and clear communication.

[Cideous]

Everyday I read this board I am encouraged and reminded as to why I am committed to fighting for my patients, most of which are poor or lower middle class.  So for that, I say thank you to the Trump supporters here.  You remind me everyday why the fight will continue and will eventually be won by the majority.

[CAAdmission]

1 hour ago, ANESMCR said:

Like ordering the incorrect imaging study, wrong labs, or medication. You F up, you reverse course, fix your stupid mistake, and learn from it. Trump keeps doing the same shit to the same patient over and over again. That’s why. Also, gov. Cuomo isn’t the supposed leader of the free world. 

But some things are so radically stupid, you don't do them the first time so you never have to worry about "reversing course," right?

 

1 hour ago, MediMike said:

Again, maybe it was Boats that I had this exchange with rather than you...but other than a single nursing home where do you have any evidence that the exposures came from those patients rather than the underpaid workers who have multiple part time jobs between various facilities? And even the single one in the news says that they haven't traces their outbreak to a discharged patient.

 

Sorry Mike, but that dog won't hunt.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/new-york-hospitals-sent-6300-recovering-covid-patients-to-nursing-homes/2502812/

You are saying it is more likely for patients to have possibly contracted Covid from possibly infected workers rather than from known Covid patients? How about if the infected healthcare workers contracted it from the known infected nursing home patients that were returned? The Javits Center was set up and basically remained empty. There was a hospital ship in the harbor. There were smarter options. 

 

3 minutes ago, Cideous said:

Everyday I read this board I am encouraged and reminded as to why I am committed to fighting for my patients, most of which are poor or lower middle class.  So for that, I say thank you to the Trump supporters here.  You remind me everyday why the fight will continue and will eventually be won by the majority.

 

Very true. After the other party takes over, we'll eventually all be poor or lower middle class.   

 

[MediMike]

32 minutes ago, CJAdmission said:

But some things are so radically stupid, you don't do them the first time so you never have to worry about "reversing course," right?

 

Sorry Mike, but that dog won't hunt.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/new-york-hospitals-sent-6300-recovering-covid-patients-to-nursing-homes/2502812/

You are saying it is more likely for patients to have possibly contracted Covid from possibly infected workers rather than from known Covid patients? How about if the infected healthcare workers contracted it from the known infected nursing home patients that were returned? The Javits Center was set up and basically remained empty. There was a hospital ship in the harbor. There were smarter options. 

 

 

Very true. After the other party takes over, we'll eventually all be poor or lower middle class.   

 

Javitz Center opened up April 7 man, couple weeks after the decision was made to discharge the patients. And yes, I think the idea that the 20,000 infected workers mentioned in the article could have a high chance of transmitting the virus from individual to individual. Are you suggesting that the nursing homes didn't practice appropriate infection control strategies?

Again, I think Cuomo gets a good rating for his management for owning up to his mistakes like a GD adult rather than continuing to stick to his guns and/or divert attention away. 

And doggos are for couches, not hunting. Poor puppers.

[CAAdmission]

3 minutes ago, MediMike said:

Javitz Center opened up April 7 man, couple weeks after the decision was made to discharge the patients. And yes, I think the idea that the 20,000 infected workers mentioned in the article could have a high chance of transmitting the virus from individual to individual. Are you suggesting that the nursing homes didn't practice appropriate infection control strategies?

From the article:

The Cuomo administration didn’t release how exactly they reached the report’s conclusions, which back up Cuomo’s repeated defenses.

I guess that he said he is innocent. Good enough for me.  

 

 

[ANESMCR]

On 10/11/2020 at 12:36 PM, deltawave said:

That editorial from NEJM is trash. Just another spiteful hit piece. There is nothing that any other president would have done differently that would have made an impact nationally. It’s a worldwide pandemic with extraordinary virulence in a world connected like never before. It was going to hit here, regardless how it was handled. People have died throughout the world, and with a truly unknown N.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, but I still don’t see anyone promoting anything that would have practically and logically prevented the spread of this virus. Largely, local policies driven by local assessments and needs should be and should have been the order of the day.

 

I love the fact that your response is rooted in the past tense. As if POTUS and other GOP senators aren’t still currently undermining the precautions put in place by the CDC, undermining the disease severity, continuing to hold super spreader events without said precautions, and actively mocking the coronavirus as if they are oddly enough objectively pro-virus.  

[CAAdmission]

1 hour ago, ANESMCR said:

if they are oddly enough objectively pro-virus.  

If there is a party cheering for the virus, it's on the left. The current administration was rattling China's cage so badly, I would not put it past them to intentionally release this to disrupt the economy and the election. Everyone knows the Nazis are evil because they killed ~7 million people. Socialism has probably killed closer to 100 million. I guess socialists just have a better PR agency. 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

We are getting a little too much into the politics on both sides.

lets walk it back. No talking about other parties or candidates. 

 

[CAAdmission]

13 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

We are getting a little too much into the politics on both sides.

lets walk it back. No talking about other parties or candidates. 

If the entire subject of the thread is one of the candidates, how is this possible?

People are passionate, but it is very calm and respectful in here. No cause for alarm. 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

4 hours ago, CJAdmission said:

If the entire subject of the thread is one of the candidates, how is this possible?

People are passionate, but it is very calm and respectful in here. No cause for alarm. 

It was decided before this thread as a consensus to not allow any negative comments about either candidate or party until after the election. Because we truly hate limiting anything here, we let it slide a little. Actually, slide a lot. Ive personally let it slide a lot because we have had some good users that have brought it back from the brink. Some, on both sides, keep bringing it back to pure politics.
 

There is no alarm, I’m just stating what’s going to happen. Either we cool it on the political disparaging or the thread will eventually be locked because that’s just always how it ends. The mods are in agreement, of all different political stripes, the users have not be able to maintain civility for long when speaking politics, either side.

It starts with small comments without naming a politician, then it gets into wide brush complaints about a party, then it gets personal, then the mods finally say okay that’s enough and delete comments that got personal, then those users say we are censoring them, then we deal with this whole backlash, someone eventually get banned. This is the warning shot to say I told you it was going to happen, no I’m not censoring you, you were asked politely to walk it back, it wasn’t, and now we do this, it’s not based in bias.
 

Thread was allowed, because just talking about someone having coronavirus,  is not itself disparaging. we can talk about what policy decisions should/shouldn’t have been made without ever saying the words left/right/liberal/conservative/democrat/republican/Biden/trump or even “so and so would’ve done better” or “so and so did this x years ago and no one complained,” and it can definitely be done without talking about media bias by Fox News or the other end of the spectrum. None of those things are healthcare related.

if people want to talk about something political, at minimum take it to the recovery room. It doesn’t belong in the professional forum.

so, keep going. Just keep in mind that if people take it over the top, then it will be locked. Just a friendly warning to all who want to participate in the thread.

[deltawave]

2 hours ago, CJAdmission said:

If the entire subject of the thread is one of the candidates, how is this possible?

People are passionate, but it is very calm and respectful in here. No cause for alarm. 

I would agree with this. It is the thread topic. 
 

As a Trump guy in the minority, my feelings aren’t hurt by all the negs. We can have a discussion, can’t we? I mean in a few short weeks all of this will be over and they can get back to trying to impeach, remove, obstruct Trump for another four years. 

[CAAdmission]

59 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

if people want to talk about something political, at minimum take it to the recovery room. It doesn’t belong in the professional forum.

This is a reasonable solution. What is the latitude for discussion over there? As long as posters are respectful to each other anything goes?

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

1 hour ago, CJAdmission said:

This is a reasonable solution. What is the latitude for discussion over there? As long as posters are respectful to each other anything goes?

I’m not going to lay anything out as each mod has their own opinion and I don’t want to see “but you said” later.

like Scalia said “I can’t define [it], but I know it when I see it.”

[MediMike]

5 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

I’m not going to lay anything out as each mod has their own opinion and I don’t want to see “but you said” later.

like Scalia said “I can’t define [it], but I know it when I see it.”

I believe Stewart in Jacobellis v. Ohio is the example you want...