HOD VOTE ON TITLE CHANGE

[deltawave]

10 minutes ago, Incognito said:

I was all for MCP and disappointed it did not pass.  In the end, Associate is better and I was all for Physician Associate  10 years ago.  OTP needs to become FPAR like yesterday!

 

One question to those who understand how AAPA works and the BOD:

Can the BOD add in MCP as a title along with Physician Associate?  I understand they respond to the will of the HOD, but can they still support the WPP research and also accept MCP?

Like this:  Incognito, PA - Medical Care Practitioner. - Family Medicine

Just asking...

 

No, this was voted down by the HOD also.

[DizzyJ]

1 hour ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

I do not. I also disagree that a doctorate should yield independence regardless of experience. I think 5 years of practice or residency, a good one but those qualifications are for another discussion, should be the path for independence. New grad physicians have no clue what they are doing as interns. I had years of experience as an RN and anesthesia trained before becoming a PA, and I didn’t know jack about FM before I worked in it for years. After that, I knew jack about EM until residency. I’m doing a DMS now and I see the clinical value, but again see it would not sufficiently prepare one to be independent. Hands on experience is really the only way I see to know your specialty, and that does not transfer to other specialties.

Agree with this.  A doctorate degree does not make one more experienced to practice independently.  There should be no tie to staged independence based on a degree.  It should be based on residency or time served.  

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

9 minutes ago, iconic said:

As far as independence goes, anything less than what NPs have will still keep us uncompetitive with them 

Actually in my field, CAQ is being recognized by many employers. So that could be another inexpensive way to market us as specialists 

I do agree with your first assessment. I’m not against autonomous practice and removal of supervision requirements, but I believe if we go ventanas route where PAs can supervise themselves while still doing full billing during that mentorship, we will still be able to keep up and have a better clinician.

[Reality Check 2]

There is NO CAQ for Internal Medicine/Primary Care.

Yet, it is THE hardest line of work, in my opinion and experience and the dumping ground for all things.

I will never agree that a new grad have independence. I don't care to think like HR - that would make my head explode.

I have long proposed that PAs be boarded by their specialty - Urology = Urology boards, Ortho = Ortho Boards, Family Practice = AAFP, etc. 

We have to prove we are as smart as we are.

[iconic]

38 minutes ago, Reality Check 2 said:

There is NO CAQ for Internal Medicine/Primary Care.

Yet, it is THE hardest line of work, in my opinion and experience and the dumping ground for all things.

I will never agree that a new grad have independence. I don't care to think like HR - that would make my head explode.

I have long proposed that PAs be boarded by their specialty - Urology = Urology boards, Ortho = Ortho Boards, Family Practice = AAFP, etc. 

We have to prove we are as smart as we are.

There's a CAQ for Hospitalist med. Removing supervision requirements isn't about new grads going and opening solo practices; but about being competitive in the job market for both new grads and seasoned PAs. Let's say a PA has decades of experience in one specialty but wants to switch. If we were to tie independence to specialty experience, then that PA would be less competitive in some ways than a new grad NP requiring no supervision whatsoever. Also, we need to chart our own destiny and cannot rely on physician organizations to propel us forward. (You don't see optometrists trying to get under MD boards). Moreover, AAFP and others are already involved in NCCPA. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by iconic

[sas5814]

1 hour ago, Incognito said:

I was all for MCP and disappointed it did not pass.  In the end, Associate is better and I was all for Physician Associate  10 years ago.  OTP needs to become FPAR like yesterday!

 

One question to those who understand how AAPA works and the BOD:

Can the BOD add in MCP as a title along with Physician Associate?  I understand they respond to the will of the HOD, but can they still support the WPP research and also accept MCP?

Like this:  Incognito, PA - Medical Care Practitioner. - Family Medicine

Just asking...

 

There was actually an amendment suggested to do just that and it was voted down.

[ventana]

3 hours ago, Reality Check 2 said:

There is NO CAQ for Internal Medicine/Primary Care.

Yet, it is THE hardest line of work, in my opinion and experience and the dumping ground for all things.

I will never agree that a new grad have independence. I don't care to think like HR - that would make my head explode.

I have long proposed that PAs be boarded by their specialty - Urology = Urology boards, Ortho = Ortho Boards, Family Practice = AAFP, etc. 

We have to prove we are as smart as we are.

I have sent emails to NCCPA every 6-12 months SINCE THE CAQ PROGRAM started asking for PCP/IM CAQ

 

They do not even answer them anymore.....  so disconnected from reality - where NP's are kickin our butts.... it is just sad

 

Just make a IM CAQ and move on. To say our generalist education is the same does a disservice to every Primary Care PA AND BOARDED DOC out there.  Primary care is hard and we are getting destroyed by the independent NPs and NCCPA replies with crickets...... nothing, nada....

 

PAFT how about picking up this charge???

 

Maybe vote out the NCCPA board and replace them with IM PA!!

[bobuddy]

4 hours ago, ventana said:

 

 

 

3- this 4000 hours needs to be supervised by either an Independent PA or a Doc - only thing needed is a supervision agreement stating there as a resource and quarterly meetings to review either 10 cases treated or review a topic.  Nothing more

 

 

  Take out supervision - replace with "Collaboration"   In order to complete at any level with employment - we need to get rid of the "supervisory" wording we currently have. 

[ventana]

29 minutes ago, bobuddy said:

  Take out supervision - replace with "Collaboration"   In order to complete at any level with employment - we need to get rid of the "supervisory" wording we currently have. 

but can be "supervised by a PA"

[sas5814]

38 minutes ago, ventana said:

Maybe vote out the NCCPA board and replace them with IM PA!!

yea about that.... the NCCPA board is appointed by the NCCPA board so there is no voting and no outside influence of any kind.

[ventana]

Just now, sas5814 said:

yea about that.... the NCCPA board is appointed by the NCCPA board so there is no voting and no outside influence of any kind.

WHAT???   need to know more about that and we need to sick PAFT on that one.....

[sas5814]

Just now, ventana said:

WHAT???   need to know more about that and we need to sick PAFT on that one.....

I have been riding the NCCPA like a rented mule for 5 years. I have tried being nice. I have tried being brutal. I have invited them to do a podcast where I gave them the questions ahead of time. I have talked to them on the phone. I have emailed them. I have spoken to them in person when we were at conferences 

How much change have I made? Zero. They are the illuminati. Untouchable by outside forces.

[ventana]

3 hours ago, sas5814 said:

I have been riding the NCCPA like a rented mule for 5 years. I have tried being nice. I have tried being brutal. I have invited them to do a podcast where I gave them the questions ahead of time. I have talked to them on the phone. I have emailed them. I have spoken to them in person when we were at conferences 

How much change have I made? Zero. They are the illuminati. Untouchable by outside forces.

so how do we get people on the inside?????

[Joelseff]

1 hour ago, ventana said:

so how do we get people on the inside?????

I think you have to go to their annual retreat in the woods and sacrifice a Pre-PA to their carved wooden idol... Then you're in! 

[CAAdmission]

15 hours ago, sas5814 said:

yea about that.... the NCCPA board is appointed by the NCCPA board so there is no voting and no outside influence of any kind.

The ARC-PA functions in the same fashion. 

And the real kicker is that both organization have a substantial number of physicians on their board. I wonder how much an AMA appointee really cares about PAs?

[ventana]

So when does NCCPA hold these little appointment parties and how do we stack the deck with appointments?

 

 

[CAAdmission]

5 minutes ago, ventana said:

So when does NCCPA hold these little appointment parties and how do we stack the deck with appointments?

They put out a call for nominees every year or so. We won't change NCCPA and ARC-PA. They are self-perpetuating and they only appoint like minded people. 

[ventana]

1 hour ago, CAAdmission said:

They put out a call for nominees every year or so. We won't change NCCPA and ARC-PA. They are self-perpetuating and they only appoint like minded people. 

not totally true

if we get new blood nominated and stick with it - it will change.  Grand canyon was not made in a day, and NCCPA might take a while to change, but we can

 

I think the academics likely dominate it, and that is wrong. I have some exposure to acadmeic programs.  One is pretty aware of the happenings in the field, the other is totally disconnected, and likely supported ASSISTANT and I think their past director was on the NCCPA board for years - yeah not progressive, and in fact regressive

 

So who wants to run for NCCPA board??

[sas5814]

2 hours ago, ventana said:

not totally true

if we get new blood nominated and stick with it - it will change.  Grand canyon was not made in a day, and NCCPA might take a while to change, but we can

 

I think the academics likely dominate it, and that is wrong. I have some exposure to acadmeic programs.  One is pretty aware of the happenings in the field, the other is totally disconnected, and likely supported ASSISTANT and I think their past director was on the NCCPA board for years - yeah not progressive, and in fact regressive

 

So who wants to run for NCCPA board??

I applied last year. I didn't even get a "thanks for applying" note. I found out from their newsletter who the new board members were. 

No point in notifying anyone. 

[rev ronin]

3 hours ago, ventana said:

So who wants to run for NCCPA board??

What is this "run" for NCCPA board of which you speak?  Are you under the impression that NCCPA holds elections?

[sas5814]

1 hour ago, rev ronin said:

What is this "run" for NCCPA board of which you speak?  Are you under the impression that NCCPA holds elections?

or otherwise is influenced by anyone outside their own organization.

[CAAdmission]

6 hours ago, rev ronin said:

What is this "run" for NCCPA board of which you speak?  Are you under the impression that NCCPA holds elections?

This.

The only people who vote on board members are board members. If we wanted to change anything, the only way would be to get some sleeper agents placed.

ARC-PA is a cornerstone in all this too. They set the education agenda.