sas5814 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said: I believe the board must enact the will of the HOD. Actually they don't have to and, in the past, that was a lot of the issues with AAPA. The BOD was acting as a star chamber and doing whatever it wanted regardless of the HOD decisions. That hasn't been a problem for a while and won't be with this BOD either. Even if it were in the bylaws they could game the system. "we are now associates? Ok we allocate $12 for branding." That sort of mess. I was a loud and vocal advocate for MCP (personally)and I'm disappointed but I knew it was going to be a long uphill push under the best of circumstances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 So ---- now what? Does NCCPA go along with this? Does each state have to ratify? Will this take years to figure out? Will NCCPA charge us more for everything because they can? I can tell my employer but what does it take for them to adopt? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) Now the looooong process begins. Even more than OTP this will be a long process. Once the board ratifies it the work begins to get the pillars to make their changes. each state and the federal government has to change the title. Then there are a bunch of other peripheral things like insurance companies. the schools will have to make changes (or not...). However, as daunting as it sounds, the change is pretty simple depending on resistance from other groups. Assuming (you know the deal) there is none states can make the change by a small amendment attached to any piece of legislation that substitutes the word associate for assistant. Likewise the federal government. Once the highest levels of the fed say "make it so" it just trickles down to all government agencies. The pillars? Pffffth..... time for them to drag it along kicking and screaming. They will look like complete donkeys if they don't. For the most part, without a whole ton of work, it should happen pretty organically. Now if the physicians decide we aren't associates and want to fight? Different discussion. Personally I think they will make a little nose and move on. They have bigger fish to fry. Edited May 24, 2021 by sas5814 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted May 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2021 physician associate with OTP independence is only ok but far better the ASSISSTANT (just wish we had the balls to get ASS out of our name) 10 years ago I would be over the moon happy with associate...... now NOT SO MUCH OTP push is now on!! I am a huge supporter of MCP but Associate is acceptable, now we MUST throw our collective weight behind OTP and NOW!!! 2 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komorebi Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, ventana said: physician associate with OTP independence is only ok but far better the ASSISSTANT (just wish we had the balls to get ASS out of our name) 10 years ago I would be over the moon happy with associate...... now NOT SO MUCH OTP push is now on!! I am a huge supporter of MCP but Associate is acceptable, now we MUST throw our collective weight behind OTP and NOW!!! Congrats guys! So what's OTP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgblumm Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 In reference to Scott's last post----Remember Samson. And the pillars did fall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amandaaa22 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, Komorebi said: Congrats guys! So what's OTP? Optimal team practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 https://www.wapa.com/assets/posting/050918 WAPA Message from Pres link Version TP for PAs for OTP.pdf\ This is from Washington state but a good recap. A few years old. Maybe someone with more recent knowledge of OTP can start an updated thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) I suppose this is a "win" and like Ventana 10 years ago I would have been ecstatic but this feels like a whole lot of squeeze for not much juice... I still see our "new" title giving an opening for lawmakers etc from preventing FPAR. We may get modified OTP laws like we have been doing for the past few years but is "Just OTP" what we are after? Are we really going to not pursue FPAR? I was hoping title change (MCP) - >OTP->FPAR/Graduated Independence (like in Utah)... But i guess we will continue ASSociation with our Physician demigods overseers... Ooops I mean "associates" and keep getting modified OTP in most if not all states... Yay! We could have saved the 1.5MM spent on TCI since we never needed them to come up with ASSociate now did we? They could have given me 500k and I would have told them that Edited May 24, 2021 by Joelseff 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PA1988 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Thank God I am 5 1/2 years away from retirement. I can count on one hand and have fingers left over the number of times patients have asked me about my role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 2 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said: I’m not sure I’ll be around for the second vote. Did you see we amended the oath to add another line “we will respect our collegial relationship with physicians and other members of the healthcare team.” Why did this have to be added at all? Why are physicians put separate from the rest of the team? Why do we keep having to refer to our need for physician to operate our own profession? ...was I supposed to have taken an oath at some point in time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted May 24, 2021 Administrator Share Posted May 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, MediMike said: ...was I supposed to have taken an oath at some point in time? Yeah, a Hippocratic one, that forbids PA assisted suicide, abortion, sharing patient secrets, sleeping with their slaves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemurcatta Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 3 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said: I would like to know how my delegates voted as I believe those who voted against MCP possibly, and certainly those who voted against any change, abandoned their fiduciary responsibilities. “Abandoned their fiduciary responsibility” is a huge leap from voting your conscience in a representative deliberation body. especially because reasonable people can disagree over the title. If reasonable people can disagree, there is no way we can say some sort of duty was breached. Just don’t vote again for the delegates form your local academy if you disagree, but charging them with an accusation like this is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted May 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2021 18 minutes ago, MediMike said: ...was I supposed to have taken an oath at some point in time? Im not sure if everyone does at graduation, but I believe most do. I believe I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted May 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, lemurcatta said: “Abandoned their fiduciary responsibility” is a huge leap from voting your conscience in a representative deliberation body. especially because reasonable people can disagree over the title. If reasonable people can disagree, there is no way we can say some sort of duty was breached. Just don’t vote again for the delegates form your local academy if you disagree, but charging them with an accusation like this is wrong. If they can have the belief that it was in the best interest of the profession to keep the assistant title after expert reports, surveys, the majority of the PAs, and mountains of testimony at the HOD, then I certainly can have the belief they did not do their fiduciary duty. Certainly poor logic vs voting their personal preference is difficult to prove, but it is one or the other. and I’m not an official, I’m not charging them with anything. My entire point is that I’m not going to vote for them and my reasoning is because I believe they did not perform their duty as a fiduciary, either by failure of logic or failure to remain unbiased. Though more to my point is I CANNOT, because they decided to not reveal the vote and have transparency. So I’m stuck about how to vote in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANESMCR Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Reality Check 2 said: So ---- now what? Does NCCPA go along with this? Does each state have to ratify? Will this take years to figure out? Will NCCPA charge us more for everything because they can? I can tell my employer but what does it take for them to adopt? How long till this is physician associate forum... 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobuddy Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 At one time I was for the Physician Associate - but after many years on the state PA boards - I have had too many conversations with legislators to know that the "Associate" will still be an issue. What is a Physician Associate? Does that mean we associate with them - as in - we are friends/coworkers or does this mean we are "allowed" to be near them on occasion ( and gather up the crumbs we are tossed by them)? I was not crazy about MCP but at least that was a fairly clear description of what I do on a daily basis. After 23 years, I do not assist anyone and but I also don't "associate" with anyone. On to FPA/OTP now and to the same questions we have had to answer from the legislators all these years....... I suppose I should be glad for a change - at this point - any change away from assistant is going to be better ( I hope) I am about 10 years out from hopefully a chance at retirement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSPAC2 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Good to know. Just cancelled my membership auto-renewal for AAPA. Now if only I can get their website to work so I can figure out how to stop my monthly PAC donations. I'm not supporting an organization that has no trouble wasting a million dollars. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastPA Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 What next? We pass OTP in 5 years when it's already 5 years behind and we should be going for FPA to become equal / employable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 2 hours ago, rev ronin said: Yeah, a Hippocratic one, that forbids PA assisted suicide, abortion, sharing patient secrets, sleeping with their slaves... Aren't supposed to take $$$ for our services either and supposed to keep our secrets right? 2 hours ago, lemurcatta said: “Abandoned their fiduciary responsibility” is a huge leap from voting your conscience in a representative deliberation body. especially because reasonable people can disagree over the title. If reasonable people can disagree, there is no way we can say some sort of duty was breached. Just don’t vote again for the delegates form your local academy if you disagree, but charging them with an accusation like this is wrong. How are we supposed the know how our delegates voted since they have repeatedly refused roll call voting or any kind of voting transparency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawave Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share Posted May 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, EastCoastPA said: What next? We pass OTP in 5 years when it's already 5 years behind and we should be going for FPA to become equal / employable? OTP is actually making the rounds through various state legislatures already. Options are opening up for states to move to... if you’re into that sort of thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted May 24, 2021 Administrator Share Posted May 24, 2021 27 minutes ago, MediMike said: Aren't supposed to take $$$ for our services either and supposed to keep our secrets right? Well, we're supposed to financially take care of the families of our teachers, teach such descendants without charging them, and restrict teaching medicine to those who also agree to the same Hippocratic oath. Is that what you were talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastPA Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 45 minutes ago, deltawave said: OTP is actually making the rounds through various state legislatures already. Options are opening up for states to move to... if you’re into that sort of thing. 100% into it and open to moving, but my thought was that OTP still puts us 5 years behind NPs, we need to shoot for FPA like they already have to compete. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 1. I am cancelling my AAPA membership and will NEVER give them another dollar. 2. I will fight this with every fiber of my being. Social Medical, FB, Twitter, PA boards etc. I will NEVER identify as an Associate, but always as a Practitioner. 3. The cowardly SOB's who refused to stand up for their vote should be shamed out of this profession. You vote it? Own it you damn cowards. It's time to go to war with the new Associate profession. If you would like to keep your job, if you would like to not be replaced by an NP if you are a new grad with $80k in debt and would like to be able to pay it off? It's time to BREAK with this profession. THE SPINELESS COWARDS WHO IGNORED THE DATA, IGNORED THE CONSULTING EXPERTS AND IGNORED THE LEGISLATIVE HURDLES TO ASSOCIATE SHOULD BE RAN OUT OF TOWN. THEY CAN NO LONGER WITH A STRAIGHT FACE TELL PATIENTS TO "LISTEN TO THE DATA..." THIS PROFESSION NEEDS TO SPLIT, UPGRADE TO MCP AND MOVE THE HELL ON FROM ASSISTANTS/ASSOCIATES. This fight is just starting folks, but it is no longer with NP's or legislators. This fight just got real and it is with our own leadership. This is now Civil War. We have to win and win soon. Not 10 years down the road when the remaining "Associates" are begging for jobs. We need to split and start winning now. Recommendations: 1. Immediately send AAPA a scathing letter on adapting Associate over the DATA PROVEN MCP! 2. NEVER give them another dime. 3. Withdraw from PAFT and NEVER give them another dime. They are 100% culpable in this no matter what their "revised" letter said. They choose the fail of Associate. Be done with them. 4. It's time to organize around like minded providers who support being a Practitioner and not a damn assistant or associate. 5. Secure the name. I will be moving forward in this dept literally tomorrow. Believe that just as Physician Assistants came out of nowhere, that MCP's can and will as well. The Physician Assistant profession has thrown their lot in with its own destruction. For the sake of ALL new grads that come after us, let's go after them and put our practitioner boot right up their associate ass. Lastly, to the mods here. I have been on this board for over 15 years. If you ban this post or me for it, I hope you will pause and ask yourself one question.....could he be right? Before you boot me. Good luck to us all. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Cideous said: If you ban this post or me for it, I hope you will pause and ask yourself one question.....could he be right? Before you boot me. No grounds for doing so. You stated your position. Language is strong but clean. We need to have these conversations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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