HOD VOTE ON TITLE CHANGE

[Rose66]

I agree with you, Our Assistant Name must go if we want to maintain a place in the healthcare business. But we are not independent practitioners don't forget that and will never be, we depend on a MD license. The sad thing is that we don't have a strong supporting PA board, they were the ones who were supposed to protect us, to stop producing PA's and NP's like baking breads, but they didn't because they make a lot of money, are lazy and don't have a motivation to help us. The nurses were very smart, but they didn't acted alone the Dr.'s were the ones who actually help them to advance their careers and they toked  full advantage of it . We were left behind. Now the only thing we can do is to make a revolution and stopped paying AAPA, CAPA , don't become certify as a sign of protest, they must know if they don't help us they shouldn't be in business either. 

[PractitionerAwesome]

Physician Associate wasn't my favorite, but knowing how often doing anything at all has come up short at the HOD, I'm feeling alright. Let's get this enacted and keep moving forward. That's all you can do sometimes. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by PractitionerAwesome

[Reality Check 2]

I am not mad.

I don’t have any more energy to be mad.

We got rid of Assistant. Step ONE.

AAPA actually did something. 

Still don’t trust them but we took a step.

Will keep doing my job and showing my skills and worth.

And get ready for next step……. 

[iconic]

Time to move on and work on FPA, not some OTP crap 

[Arthropathy]

I disagree with name change and independent practice.

 

In my experience the patients that are confused about "assistant" will be just as confused about "associate". 

 

If an employer can't tell the difference on a job posting between physician assistant and medical assistant, that's probably a sign of a bad workplace anyways. 

 

We don't need to "keep up" with NPs because they are digging their own grave with generating thousands of suboptimal independent new grads...the pendulum will eventually swing on them. Most physicians I know trust PAs in general more than NPs in general.

[CAAdmission]

1 hour ago, Arthropathy said:

Most physicians I know trust PAs in general more than NPs in general.

Unfortunately, physicians are not making hiring and policy decisions in large healthcare organizations. The MBAs would rather hire a so-so practitioner that will work cheap and generate less need for administrative paperwork/oversight.

[ventana]

10 hours ago, Rose66 said:

I agree with you, Our Assistant Name must go if we want to maintain a place in the healthcare business. But we are not independent practitioners don't forget that and will never be, we depend on a MD license. The sad thing is that we don't have a strong supporting PA board, they were the ones who were supposed to protect us, to stop producing PA's and NP's like baking breads, but they didn't because they make a lot of money, are lazy and don't have a motivation to help us. The nurses were very smart, but they didn't acted alone the Dr.'s were the ones who actually help them to advance their careers and they toked  full advantage of it . We were left behind. Now the only thing we can do is to make a revolution and stopped paying AAPA, CAPA , don't become certify as a sign of protest, they must know if they don't help us they shouldn't be in business either. 

 

NO we are only currently dependent in some states (not all) and the OTP, FPA, independence just needs to happen.  We need to move away from the system designed in the 70's-80's and get into the 2020's with determining our own future.  Everyone in Medicine has a scope of practice.  We don't need physicians involved at all, not one bit in our professional lives.  We need to, just like EVERY OTHER MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, that we determine our scope of practice and are not handcuffed to a physician or there supervision.

 

Unsure where on earth you got the thought that Physicians helped advance the NP movement -this is 100% wrong.  AMA and organized medicine has fought them every single step.....

 

1 hour ago, Arthropathy said:

I disagree with name change and independent practice.

 

In my experience the patients that are confused about "assistant" will be just as confused about "associate". 

 

If an employer can't tell the difference on a job posting between physician assistant and medical assistant, that's probably a sign of a bad workplace anyways. 

 

We don't need to "keep up" with NPs because they are digging their own grave with generating thousands of suboptimal independent new grads...the pendulum will eventually swing on them. Most physicians I know trust PAs in general more than NPs in general.

Arthropathy

Wow, simply wow.

There is not a single statement in your post that I can even partly agree with.  

We should be independent, we "assist" no one,  employers and politicians are people and marketing, branding, naming makes a difference and to think it does not is totally against modern society.

NP's are not going anywhere but up, they will not self implode, they will continue to rise and slowly but surely take over PCP fields unless we PA's do something NOW

 

 

[sas5814]

22 minutes ago, ventana said:

 

NO we are only currently dependent in some states (not all) and the OTP, FPA, independence just needs to happen.  We need to move away from the system designed in the 70's-80's and get into the 2020's with determining our own future.  Everyone in Medicine has a scope of practice.  We don't need physicians involved at all, not one bit in our professional lives.  We need to, just like EVERY OTHER MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, that we determine our scope of practice and are not handcuffed to a physician or there supervision.

 

Unsure where on earth you got the thought that Physicians helped advance the NP movement -this is 100% wrong.  AMA and organized medicine has fought them every single step.....

 

Arthropathy

Wow, simply wow.

There is not a single statement in your post that I can even partly agree with.  

We should be independent, we "assist" no one,  employers and politicians are people and marketing, branding, naming makes a difference and to think it does not is totally against modern society.

NP's are not going anywhere but up, they will not self implode, they will continue to rise and slowly but surely take over PCP fields unless we PA's do something NOW

 

 

Don't feed the troll

[Joelseff]

1 hour ago, sas5814 said:

Don't feed the troll

Theyre coming out of the woodwork... 

 

After thinking about it and sleeping on it, and talking to my wife and a couple of PA friends about our "new" title... Sigh... I'm still highly disappointed but have to move on. Looks like from all the social media posts, lots of PA-S and young PAs are ecstatic about the new title. I hope so. They will be stuck with it since I don't foresee another title change in the next decade or so. I hope they quickly realize though how toeing the "company line" and singing kumbaya with physicians have really gotten us nowhere the past several decades and they need FPAR not just OTP. Not to mention their own unique title. 

I'm tired... I remember pushing for this 10 years ago. Even as a student. Saw glimmers of hope since and with TCI, really thought we had something only to let slave mentality get in our way. Been kicking against the goads and I think that will be our lot in life. Maybe when a bunch of the AAPA leadership retires the profession will have its day. Today ain't it. Can't get excited... Just tired. 

[surgblumm]

Between SAS and Ventana, you filled in the information needed. I fail to accept the fact that so many of our colleagues are totally ignorant of the legislative aspects of medicine, particularly when it comes to NPS and PAs. I can praise the legislative savvy of many NPs all day but unfortunately we have too many ostriches with the credentials but not the understanding. That my friends is how physicians and administrators take the game ball.

[sas5814]

This was the HOD. With due respect to delegates I don't rank them among AAPA leadership. I think if this was purely a board decision it might be a different story.

It is what it is and now its time to try to make chicken salad out of chicken poop.

[Joelseff]

Saw this on a PA's page on LinkedIn reposting the AAPA post. It's already happening! One of the problems of "Physician XYZ" is that, for better or worse, we are always associated with physicians (now with the new name even more so I suppose ) but it's also super easy to say "Physician's Associate" uggh...

At least I won't have to re-embroider my white coats winning! 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Joelseff

[MediMike]

3 hours ago, sas5814 said:

It is what it is and now its time to try to make chicken salad out of chicken poop.

Is...is that a real saying where you're at?

[iconic]

My non-medical friend asked me what's the big deal? So you are like a Walmart Associate?

[sas5814]

46 minutes ago, MediMike said:

Is...is that a real saying where you're at?

actually my grandfather used to say you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. I adulterated it to my own purpose.

I grew up in the deep south in the 60's and 70's. I have hundreds of sayings like that.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

21 hours ago, sas5814 said:

actually my grandfather used to say you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. I adulterated it to my own purpose.

I grew up in the deep south in the 60's and 70's. I have hundreds of sayings like that.

Oh, it didn’t have to be that far back, at least not where I grew up. 
 

my favorite my grand dad would say “if I tell you that an ant hauls a trailer, don’t ask how, just hook it up.”

now that I recall, most of his sayings were about not questioning him.

[bobuddy]

5 hours ago, Joelseff said:

Sigh... I'm still highly disappointed but have to move on. Looks like from all the social media posts, lots of PA-S and young PAs are ecstatic about the new title. I hope so. They will be stuck with it since I don't foresee another title change in the next decade or so. I hope they quickly realize though how toeing the "company line" and singing kumbaya with physicians have really gotten us nowhere the past several decades and they need FPAR not just OTP. Not to mention their own unique title. 

I'm tired... I remember pushing for this 10 years ago. Even as a student. Saw glimmers of hope since and with TCI, really thought we had something only to let slave mentality get in our way. Been kicking against the goads and I think that will be our lot in life. Maybe when a bunch of the AAPA leadership retires the profession will have its day. Today ain't it. Can't get excited... Just tired. 

This ^^^^^

[1/4WCorpsman]

I am all for the change and welcome the possible new opportunity it could present. However I think we all are in agreement that the archaic supervision of a physician is the main thing holding us back. While I agree there should be some level of supervision for a new grad but after about 5 years (or some other time frame that is appropriate) in a certain field I believe we should have full independence. 

Another thought would be that if you obtain a Doctorate degree from say a program like Butler or LMU or Lynchburg this should allow you to have FPA/independence after graduation. I see this as a tier system, new grads= supervising physician, a PA that has been in a practice setting (FM, ortho etc) for, say 5 years, should be able to achieve FPA, PAs with doctorate level training automatically get FPA regardless of how long they have been in their practice setting. If in the future PA programs move to entry level doctorate programs then there should only be supervision by a physician for x number of years in any setting then its FPA. Each setting may have more or less years of supervision.

This supervision issue needs to change in some form or another or we will be passed over for job to other professionals with inferior training etc. 

Just my 2 cents...

 

[sas5814]

19 minutes ago, 1/4WCorpsman said:

I am all for the change and welcome the possible new opportunity it could present. However I think we all are in agreement that the archaic supervision of a physician is the main thing holding us back. While I agree there should be some level of supervision for a new grad but after about 5 years (or some other time frame that is appropriate) in a certain field I believe we should have full independence. 

Another thought would be that if you obtain a Doctorate degree from say a program like Butler or LMU or Lynchburg this should allow you to have FPA/independence after graduation. I see this as a tier system, new grads= supervising physician, a PA that has been in a practice setting (FM, ortho etc) for, say 5 years, should be able to achieve FPA, PAs with doctorate level training automatically get FPA regardless of how long they have been in their practice setting. If in the future PA programs move to entry level doctorate programs then there should only be supervision by a physician for x number of years in any setting then its FPA. Each setting may have more or less years of supervision.

This supervision issue needs to change in some form or another or we will be passed over for job to other professionals with inferior training etc. 

Just my 2 cents...

 

Ponder me this.... we will have a doctorate as our core degree in the not to distant future. Would you then say a new grad should have full independence? I'm not picking. I'm just extrapolating.

There is very little disagreement that the old way of supervision is outdated (except among physician groups). Assuming we survive the next 10 years I expect there to be some evolution in "supervision". I'll be long gone when it happens but it is going to be interesting to watch and, IMHO, will be the next great issue for forward thinking PAs to start working on now.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

18 minutes ago, sas5814 said:

Ponder me this.... we will have a doctorate as our core degree in the not to distant future. Would you then say a new grad should have full independence? I'm not picking. I'm just extrapolating.

There is very little disagreement that the old way of supervision is outdated (except among physician groups). Assuming we survive the next 10 years I expect there to be some evolution in "supervision". I'll be long gone when it happens but it is going to be interesting to watch and, IMHO, will be the next great issue for forward thinking PAs to start working on now.

I do not. I also disagree that a doctorate should yield independence regardless of experience. I think 5 years of practice or residency, a good one but those qualifications are for another discussion, should be the path for independence. New grad physicians have no clue what they are doing as interns. I had years of experience as an RN and anesthesia trained before becoming a PA, and I didn’t know jack about FM before I worked in it for years. After that, I knew jack about EM until residency. I’m doing a DMS now and I see the clinical value, but again see it would not sufficiently prepare one to be independent. Hands on experience is really the only way I see to know your specialty, and that does not transfer to other specialties.

[ventana]

39 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

I do not. I also disagree that a doctorate should yield independence regardless of experience. I think 5 years of practice or residency, a good one but those qualifications are for another discussion, should be the path for independence. New grad physicians have no clue what they are doing as interns. I had years of experience as an RN and anesthesia trained before becoming a PA, and I didn’t know jack about FM before I worked in it for years. After that, I knew jack about EM until residency. I’m doing a DMS now and I see the clinical value, but again see it would not sufficiently prepare one to be independent. Hands on experience is really the only way I see to know your specialty, and that does not transfer to other specialties.

 

 

my thoughts (worth nothing)

 

1- we all should get DMSc as and entry level degree

2- you need 4000 hours of medical experience in order to practice independently

3- this 4000 hours needs to be supervised by either an Independent PA or a Doc - only thing needed is a supervision agreement stating there as a resource and quarterly meetings to review either 10 cases treated or review a topic.  Nothing more

 

That is all, done....

[Reality Check 2]

If a doctorate had been required, I would have just gone to med school back in the day.

A baseline doctorate does NOT make an independent practitioner. PERIOD.

Only experience can achieve that goal.

A baseline doctorate is cost prohibitive and will prevent many from pursuing the profession. 

I am 29 yrs in - I should have the ability to work unsupervised.

The new grad - NO. NO. NO. NO. NO

I agree with 4000 hours or even five YEARS of documented mentored practice.

Then you have to keep folks in their experience lane. Five years in Family Practice does NOT equal five years in Pediatrics or Surgery or Psychiatry. 

Degree creep is just creating debt and fighting. It doesn't make better PAs clinically. 

[Incognito]

I was all for MCP and disappointed it did not pass.  In the end, Associate is better and I was all for Physician Associate  10 years ago.  OTP needs to become FPAR like yesterday!

 

One question to those who understand how AAPA works and the BOD:

Can the BOD add in MCP as a title along with Physician Associate?  I understand they respond to the will of the HOD, but can they still support the WPP research and also accept MCP?

Like this:  Incognito, PA - Medical Care Practitioner. - Family Medicine

Just asking...

 

[1/4WCorpsman]

Yes I agree hands on real work experience is better than any class room can teach you but you have to see it from a layman view. Legislators and HR departments do not understand this. All they see is the level of degree and other frivolously administration requirements and these are the people that are marketing for their hospital systems to hire certain providers. We need to convince them in their language that we can be competent healthcare providers equal or better than our professional counterparts. Look at it from their perspective then you will understand what needs to be done to keep our profession moving forward. You have to think like a hiring manager/HR department not as a PA.  

[iconic]

As far as independence goes, anything less than what NPs have will still keep us uncompetitive with them 

Actually in my field, CAQ is being recognized by many employers. So that could be another inexpensive way to market us as specialists 

Edited May 26, 2021 by iconic