This is what we are up against

[ventana]

So I am hiring for a position - PA/NP

 

I am getting inundated with new grad NP resumes and I wanted to post a generic one here to see how minimal the training and experience is.  It befuddles me that NPs are so far ahead of us in the political realm with more independent practice a reality for many of the states....

I am not trying to bash the NP profession, just to shine a light on how much better our training is, and if society has deemed NP to be independent with about 1/4 the training we certainly should be as well!!!

 

Total hours - 600

 

 

Student Clinical Experience

 

January 2018 – May 2019

Student, *****************, *******, **                                                                                                                               45 hours

v  GNP preceptor at a geriatric primary clinic

v  Assessed patients and created treatment plans in the ****** office and traveled to skilled nursing facilities where patients resided

v  Patient population: 60+ years old, Medicare and Medicaid only, chronic and acute disease interventions

 

Student, *****************, *******, **                                                                                                                               45 hours

v  FNP preceptor at an independently owned primary care clinic

v  Assessed and created treatment plans for patients with acute and chronic diseases; completed pap smears

v  Patient population: pediatric, adult and geriatric

 

Student, *****************, *******, **                                                                                                                               90 hours

v  PNP preceptor at an independently owned pediatric clinic as well as home visits

v  Administered numerous immunizations, completed development questionnaires and assessments with parents

v  Patient population: newborn to 18 years old

 

Student, *****************, *******, **                                                                                                                               90 hours

v  FNP preceptor

v  Assessed patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor

v  Appropriately referred in emergent situations

v  Patient population: pediatric, adult and geriatric population

 

Synthesis Practicum student, , *****************, *******, **                                                                    135 hours

v  Family MD preceptor

v  Assessed patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor; completed pap smears

v  Appropriately referring in emergent and specialty situations

v  Patient population: newborn, pediatric, adult, geriatric patients; Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance

 

Synthesis Practicum student, , *****************, *******, **                                                                    60 hours

v  PA preceptor

v  Assessed patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor

v  Completed suturing, splinting and documented in Epic electronic charting system

 

Synthesis Practicum student, , *****************, *******, **                                                                    30 hours

v  NP, certified nurse midwife preceptor

v  Assessed women’s health patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor

v  Completed several pelvic exams/ Paps, assisted with IUD insertions and removals, birth control counseling

 

Synthesis Practicum student, , *****************, *******, **                                                                    135 hours

v  PA preceptor

v  Assessed patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor

v  Completed several pelvic, prostate, testicular exams, as well as physicals, punch biopsies, suturing, liquid nitrogen

v  Patient population: pediatric, adult, geriatric patients; Medicare and private insurance

 

[EMEDPA]

my first rotation in trauma surgery included more hours than this applicants total. Then there were rotations in ob, peds, psych, em, and inpt IM,  then 12 weeks each of FP and more EM....

[Pac30]

I'm having trouble making sense of this entire situation. I don't know how anyone could look at that resume and want to hire that person. I guess admin calculates the cost/likelihood of lawsuits vs the cost of paying docs to co-sign/ administrative headache and decide to go the NP route. 

[iconic]

Doesn't matter what our training is if we are not recognized for it

[Hope2PA]

4 hours ago, iconic said:

Doesn't matter what our training is if we are not recognized for it

In a growing number of locations, it is not just lack of recognition, it is due to CEO’s and CNO’s who have decided PA’s are not worth the trouble. Yet so many PA’s still want to take the higher ground and want to remain assistants and dependent. For those of you who feel this way, answer this question; would you prefer a family member or friend be treated by one of the online direct entry New NP’s or a New PA? How about the states that allow independence for NP in 6-12 months? Problem is PA’s can’t get their shit together and agree to staged independence that may require a type board certification in area you are working, . If you really care about patients, think about what you are dooming them to by not pursuing same footing as NP, APRN. Because PA’s have chosen the “high ground” many patients don’t have a choice. Some NP’s are very good, but they were ones who worked in an area several years before going on and did rotations with MD or DO. The admin types have made the choice that lesser education is better for their pocket due to the hassle of hiring PA’s. 

[Cideous]

17 minutes ago, Hope2PA said:

In a growing number of locations, it is not just lack of recognition, it is due to CEO’s and CNO’s who have decided PA’s are not worth the trouble. Yet so many PA’s still want to take the higher ground and want to remain assistants and dependent. For those of you who feel this way, answer this question; would you prefer a family member or friend be treated by one of the online direct entry New NP’s or a New PA? How about the states that allow independence for NP in 6-12 months? Problem is PA’s can’t get their shit together and agree to staged independence that may require a type board certification in area you are working, . If you really care about patients, think about what you are dooming them to by not pursuing same footing as NP, APRN. Because PA’s have chosen the “high ground” many patients don’t have a choice. Some NP’s are very good, but they were ones who worked in an area several years before going on and did rotations with MD or DO. The admin types have made the choice that lesser education is better for their pocket due to the hassle of hiring PA’s. 

Amen and Amen!

[kang1208]

16 hours ago, Hope2PA said:

In a growing number of locations, it is not just lack of recognition, it is due to CEO’s and CNO’s who have decided PA’s are not worth the trouble. Yet so many PA’s still want to take the higher ground and want to remain assistants and dependent. For those of you who feel this way, answer this question; would you prefer a family member or friend be treated by one of the online direct entry New NP’s or a New PA? How about the states that allow independence for NP in 6-12 months? Problem is PA’s can’t get their shit together and agree to staged independence that may require a type board certification in area you are working, . If you really care about patients, think about what you are dooming them to by not pursuing same footing as NP, APRN. Because PA’s have chosen the “high ground” many patients don’t have a choice. Some NP’s are very good, but they were ones who worked in an area several years before going on and did rotations with MD or DO. The admin types have made the choice that lesser education is better for their pocket due to the hassle of hiring PA’s. 

Yes, this exactly. 

[TDIowa]

I had to count total hours up several times to make sure I added it right.

630 hours

78.75 days

11.25 weeks

During my training in the Army the Chief of Clinical Service's told us the first day of our clinical training that if you aren't in the hospital or a clinic then you aren't learning.  Obviously that's not the case with this program.

I am underwhelmed with the clinical/didactic training.

Edited July 8, 2020 by TDIowa

[deltawave]

That resume is awful and subpar. I wouldn’t hire that person. I have about 1300 hours of experience with patients during my clinical year and another 100+ hours of simulated virtual patients (2° COVID).  
 

Give me a break. Also, what is synthesis practicum? My Google fu shows me it’s just nurse education talk for clinical course work.  
 

I really hope we can be more competitive legislatively. I’m already a member of PA organizations... what more can I do? Give money that I have no idea how it will be utilized or utilized on other items by the org? 

[SedRate]

On 7/7/2020 at 8:24 AM, EMEDPA said:

my first rotation in trauma surgery included more hours than this applicants total. Then there were rotations in ob, peds, psych, em, and inpt IM,  then 12 weeks each of FP and more EM....

How long was your trauma rotation? 

[SedRate]

On 7/7/2020 at 7:13 AM, ventana said:

So I am hiring for a position - PA/NP

 

I am getting inundated with new grad NP resumes and I wanted to post a generic one here to see how minimal the training and experience is.  It befuddles me that NPs are so far ahead of us in the political realm with more independent practice a reality for many of the states....

I am not trying to bash the NP profession, just to shine a light on how much better our training is, and if society has deemed NP to be independent with about 1/4 the training we certainly should be as well!!!

 

Total hours - 600

 

 

Student Clinical Experience

 

January 2018 – May 2019

Student, *****************, *******, **                                                                                                                               45 hours

v  GNP preceptor at a geriatric primary clinic

v  Assessed patients and created treatment plans in the ****** office and traveled to skilled nursing facilities where patients resided

v  Patient population: 60+ years old, Medicare and Medicaid only, chronic and acute disease interventions

 

Student, *****************, *******, **                                                                                                                               45 hours

v  FNP preceptor at an independently owned primary care clinic

v  Assessed and created treatment plans for patients with acute and chronic diseases; completed pap smears

v  Patient population: pediatric, adult and geriatric

 

Student, *****************, *******, **                                                                                                                               90 hours

v  PNP preceptor at an independently owned pediatric clinic as well as home visits

v  Administered numerous immunizations, completed development questionnaires and assessments with parents

v  Patient population: newborn to 18 years old

 

Student, *****************, *******, **                                                                                                                               90 hours

v  FNP preceptor

v  Assessed patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor

v  Appropriately referred in emergent situations

v  Patient population: pediatric, adult and geriatric population

 

Synthesis Practicum student, , *****************, *******, **                                                                    135 hours

v  Family MD preceptor

v  Assessed patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor; completed pap smears

v  Appropriately referring in emergent and specialty situations

v  Patient population: newborn, pediatric, adult, geriatric patients; Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance

 

Synthesis Practicum student, , *****************, *******, **                                                                    60 hours

v  PA preceptor

v  Assessed patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor

v  Completed suturing, splinting and documented in Epic electronic charting system

 

Synthesis Practicum student, , *****************, *******, **                                                                    30 hours

v  NP, certified nurse midwife preceptor

v  Assessed women’s health patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor

v  Completed several pelvic exams/ Paps, assisted with IUD insertions and removals, birth control counseling

 

Synthesis Practicum student, , *****************, *******, **                                                                    135 hours

v  PA preceptor

v  Assessed patients independently and created treatment plans for patients with preceptor

v  Completed several pelvic, prostate, testicular exams, as well as physicals, punch biopsies, suturing, liquid nitrogen

v  Patient population: pediatric, adult, geriatric patients; Medicare and private insurance

 

Wow, that's scary to hear, especially if they're direct entry. I had about that many hours from just my FM and WH rotations. And those two were my slower rotations, which I still tried to stay after-hours to pick up more hours and anything else I could! Don't forget all the additional hours on EM, peds, IM, inpatient psych, surgery, and electives... I probably had somewhere around 2500 hours. 

Maybe by being a nurse previously and working their 3-12's or part time gave way to this? I don't know many nurses who will stick around after their shift is over to help out or will come in for an extra shift without 1.5-2x their hourly rate... Or is it low quality/yield rotations?

Edited July 9, 2020 by SedRate

[EMEDPA]

37 minutes ago, SedRate said:

How long was your trauma rotation? 

5 weeks. alternating 24 and 12 hr days. 120 hrs/week x 5 weeks= 600 hrs.

I lived at the hospital in a call room for 5 weeks. I left the hospital campus once in 5 weeks for 2 hrs one morning when we had no pts in the icu.  My clinical year was 54 weeks. Aside from trauma, most of my rotations were 60 -72 hrs/week. I had well over 3000 hrs for the year. 

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

I’d get 8’ x 5d x 8w just on one cush rotation if there wasn’t any call. Like E, put me in ED or IM or Gyn and hours were 1.5-2x for 8w. These were the years before hour restrictions.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rev ronin]

48 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

I’d get 8’ x 5d x 8w just on one cush rotation if there wasn’t any call. Like E, put me in ED or IM or Gyn and hours were 1.5-2x for 8w. These were the years before hour restrictions.

I did at least 60 hour weeks on my surgery rotation, and pulled 2x overnights to make up for time lost in holidays, so about 400 hours in six weeks.  That was on the high end, only did 4x10s in my last family med rotation, so about 250 there. Easily 2500 hours of clinical time in rotations.

[Hope2PA]

Have you completed clinicals?  I didn't know there were PA programs that allowed  only1400 clinical hours. Every PA I know had over 2,000-3,000.  Guess it is still more than BS to DNP which only requires 1000, but hate to see PA's lowering the bar. 

[deltawave]

2 hours ago, Hope2PA said:

Have you completed clinicals?  I didn't know there were PA programs that allowed  only1400 clinical hours. Every PA I know had over 2,000-3,000.  Guess it is still more than BS to DNP which only requires 1000, but hate to see PA's lowering the bar. 

If you’re replying to me, no. I have many months to go. 
I guess I should have went online NP... I’d have been done long ago.

Edited July 9, 2020 by deltawave

[ventana]

direct entry on line DNP for a PA with a masters - one year, 10k, sign me up!

 

[SedRate]

7 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

5 weeks. alternating 24 and 12 hr days. 120 hrs/week x 5 weeks= 600 hrs.

I lived at the hospital in a call room for 5 weeks. I left the hospital campus once in 5 weeks for 2 hrs one morning when we had no pts in the icu.  My clinical year was 54 weeks. Aside from trauma, most of my rotations were 60 -72 hrs/week. I had well over 3000 hrs for the year. 

Wow. You, Sir, are studly. I was gonna ask if you even slept or left the hospital during that rotation. Ha!

[iconic]

On 7/9/2020 at 7:27 PM, ventana said:

direct entry on line DNP for a PA with a masters - one year, 10k, sign me up!

 

Nurses will never allow this

[rpackelly]

On 7/7/2020 at 11:24 AM, EMEDPA said:

my first rotation in trauma surgery included more hours than this applicants total. Then there were rotations in ob, peds, psych, em, and inpt IM,  then 12 weeks each of FP and more EM....

I am seeing only one rotation with MD preceptor, not to belittle the rest of us, but that is standard of education in medicine.  And, as EMDPA said, curing my ER Residency at LAC/USC I put in almost as many hours in one rotation alone as the entire student experience listed above; that was over and above my initial training where we had to clock 2000 hours.  I see  no  evidence of ED, surgical, or inpatient experience or care  of acutely acutely ill patients in this CV.  Some direct entry NP grads do not even meet the minimum pre-requisites for courses and for clinical experience needed for PA Program entry in many places.  

 

 

We consistently sell ourselves short.  

[ventana]

31 minutes ago, rpackelly said:

 

 

 

We consistently sell ourselves short.  

 

 

yup    we are doing it to ourselves.....  we should be standing up yelling at the top of our professional lungs - "look at us, we are effective, safe medical professionals with great training!"

[Derbingle]

I can say the one area where we have them beat is in procedures. I have found many of them don’t know how to suture to incision and drainage particularly Bartholin’s gland cyst or dental abscesses. Fracture reductions as well.   There are so many tricks and tips of the trade a lot of which we learn in PA school from other providers that they don’t learn.  They look to the PAs to asked to get trained after they’ve been hired. This is one of my peeves.  The nursing boards and national governing bodies are so powerful because there’s so many people that have been doing it for so long. What is the single reason that the AAA PA cannot get off the ground and make anything happen? Is it lack of contact, lack of ability contact not knowing what to do? Are there people sitting there pretending to represent PAC we’re just collecting a salary and yearly dues? And by the way I have a pain in the AAPA for such a long time because the only thing I seem to get me was a magazine every month.  I almost feel like the PA profession is losing steam and I wonder if there is anything that can be done to turn it around?

Edited October 26, 2020 by Derbingle

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

59 minutes ago, Derbingle said:

I can say the one area where we have them beat is in procedures. I have found many of them don’t know how to suture to incision and drainage particularly Bartholin’s gland cyst or dental abscesses. Fracture reductions as well.   There are so many tricks and tips of the trade a lot of which we learn in PA school from other providers that they don’t learn.  They look to the PAs to asked to get trained after they’ve been hired. This is one of my peeves.  The nursing boards and national governing bodies are so powerful because there’s so many people that have been doing it for so long. What is the single reason that the AAA PA cannot get off the ground and make anything happen? Is it lack of contact, lack of ability contact not knowing what to do? Are there people sitting there pretending to represent PAC we’re just collecting a salary and yearly dues? And by the way I have a pain in the AAPA for such a long time because the only thing I seem to get me was a magazine every month.  I almost feel like the PA profession is losing steam and I wonder if there is anything that can be done to turn it around?

We have half the people who give a quarter of  what NPs donate to their society.

i would say they’ve done pretty damn well with a smaller and more apathetic profession.

[kittryn]

I've been seeing telehealth job postings for "physicians/NPs" - NOT PAs.

We are being left behind without independence.