What a tiny percentage of PA's in the US voted in the AAPA election

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

4 hours ago, Cideous said:

 

 The day of the "I've got mine, screw you" baby boomer is almost over.  Thank goodness.

The heck it is.  I've got mine and I STILL want more of everyone elses' in the two years I've got left.  I'm looking forward to the extended care facility days when I can sit back and pinch backsides and holler "Back in the day when you had to be sharp to get into the few PA programs that existed..."

Oh lord, don't anyone take it seriously.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

1 hour ago, CAdamsPAC said:

Yep ,I'm going to soon sit back in my PA retirement watching the Tide Pod eating , condom snorting living in their parents basement "millennials" posting angry online rants about the "Boomer Generation of PAs" "I've got mine, screw you" take over. While ignoring that WE were the ones who took the body blows while knocking down the obstructions to the profession,developing it into the profession that exists today. We were the ones who took the $20K-30K jobs 40-30 years ago, when we could find them and worked our butts off proving ourselves ! Not to mention filled the military physician jobs, that held the greatest risk to by killed in combat. Our generation actually helped end racial segregation, unjustified war, oh yes formed the core of this profession! We were raised by those who lived the Great Depression and taught us about self sufficiency, accountability and responsibility on a personable level. Not to mention we faced the threat of the loss of individual freedom manifested as  Communism and Socialism across the globe. I believe the state of the AAPA represents the current aimless search for the pollyanna nirvana sought by those who somehow have become enamored with "everyone  getting a trophy and ribbon" mentality along with not offending people who care less about our profession!! Yeah tell us about how much change and heavy lifting your generation will do better than mine? YAWN.............................

 

*Not directing this solely at you Adams, nor do I think your response wasn’t provoked.*

Let’s not get into a Millenial vs gen x vs baby boomer.

All have made amazing contributions and stumbles. Every generation thinks the newest is full of lazy whiners and the prior full of Neanderthals. It simply isn’t true. Not of mine or any others, which I could list a paragraphs of examples but for brevity sake won’t.

we stand on the shoulders of giants, for sure. No one should question that, but that should not force us to limit ourselves to prior ideals. Each generation has to adapt and make their own path.

i for one appreciate a great deal of what baby boomers did and some continue to do. I also have served with plenty of millenials that I’m sure have the fortitude to change the world.

 

[CAdamsPAC]

12 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

 

*Not directing this solely at you Adams, nor do I think your response wasn’t provoked.*

Let’s not get into a Millenial vs gen x vs baby boomer.

All have made amazing contributions and stumbles. Every generation thinks the newest is full of lazy whiners and the prior full of Neanderthals. It simply isn’t true. Not of mine or any others, which I could list a paragraphs of examples but for brevity sake won’t.

we stand on the shoulders of giants, for sure. No one should question that, but that should not force us to limit ourselves to prior ideals. Each generation has to adapt and make their own path.

 

Agree, my reply was in direct response to the introduction of how much  change and improvement the "millenials" will bring about supposing that the older PA generations efforts were unfruitful or problematic. I do believe a strong malaise has descended over the AAPA predicated by it's unwillingness to be confrontational in addressing threats to the profession. Not an uncommon trait among PAs by my observations. 

[rev ronin]

10 hours ago, CAdamsPAC said:

I'm reading word salad. Please cite or delineate specifics. Thanks.

This, but I'll lead by example and be more specific.  First, I think you're (mcclane) linking a lot of topics that we don't have any particular monoculture on.  Sure, I'll mention one or two occasionally, as I did Carson above, but I don't know any poster who maintains that entire set of political preferences; I certainly don't support half the topics you all lumped together.

I'm MOST interested in hearing how allowing diversity of political opinion on relevant topics disenfranchises anyone.  An Inigo Montoya quote comes to mind...

[sas5814]

Proof? We don't need no stinking proof!

[HmTwoPA]

8 hours ago, Cideous said:

 

Enjoy the flux because Millennials are getting ready to vote in mass and they are going to fundamentally change healthcare as you know it.  Ryan, McConnell and Trump have almost singlehandedly ensured the alienation of an entire generation of voters.  A generation that also just happens to be the largest in this nations history.  Hold on to your hat, things are going to turn very blue and stay that way for a very long time.  Our profession should see the handwriting on the wall.  No matter how many people insurance companies want to kick to the curb, we as a nation are not going back to a world of pre-exsisting condtions.  Millennials and a lot of Gen X'ers will see to that.  The day of the "I've got mine, screw you" baby boomer is almost over.  Thank goodness.

I think you’d be surprised how many millennials don’t think like you. The liberal mass media just doesn’t show it. 

[Joelseff]

 
4. Your pre-ACA insurance company is looking out for you......

5: you can keep your doctor... [emoji16]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[Boatswain2PA]

11 hours ago, CAdamsPAC said:

Please cite or delineate specifics.

That would require an ability to defend one's point with logic.  And since western/Greek civilization/logic isn't the focus of academia anymore, few kids coming out of school have that ability.

[Cideous]

14 hours ago, HmTwoPA said:

I think you’d be surprised how many millennials don’t think like you. The liberal mass media just doesn’t show it. 

Except every poll, survey and statistic says otherwise.  Even moderate GOP leaders acknowledge they are screwed with Millennials (once again, the LARGEST generation in America's history).

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/republicans-need-start-acting-grown-ups-if-they-want-attract-ncna839376

And for the record, I am not a Millennial.  I am a Gen X'er who lived and practiced through the nightmare of "pre-exsisting" conditions. Life saving procedures being denied by insurance companies.  We are not going back to that, and Providers who think going back is a good thing should take a good hard look at why they are in medicine.  

In 7 months we can re-visit this thread and see if I am right or not.  But as I said, Millennials I believe are going to vote like a tidal wave in the mid-terms and that will finally put an end to the GOP.  Perhaps for an entire generation....

[TWR]

As A practicing PA for 31 years and now retired for the last 1.5 years I lost my right to vote in the AAPA election.  I was politically active most of my career and even after I retired but I could not vote.

[camoman1234]

22 hours ago, CAdamsPAC said:

Yep ,I'm going to soon sit back in my PA retirement watching the Tide Pod eating , condom snorting living in their parents basement "millennials" posting angry online rants about the "Boomer Generation of PAs" "I've got mine, screw you" take over. While ignoring that WE were the ones who took the body blows while knocking down the obstructions to the profession,developing it into the profession that exists today. We were the ones who took the $20K-30K jobs 40-30 years ago, when we could find them and worked our butts off proving ourselves ! Not to mention, we filled the military physician jobs, that held the greatest risk for being killed in combat. Our generation actually helped end racial segregation, unjustified war, oh yes formed the core of this profession! We were raised by those who lived the Great Depression and taught us about self sufficiency, accountability and responsibility on a personal level. Not to mention we faced the threat of the loss of individual freedom manifested as  Communism and Socialism across the globe. I believe the state of the AAPA represents the current aimless search for the pollyanna nirvana sought by those who somehow have become enamored with "everyone  getting a trophy and ribbon" mentality along with not offending people who care less about our profession!! Yeah tell us about how much change and heavy lifting your generation will do better than mine? YAWN.............................

As a "Xennial" I had a analog childhood, but a digital adulthood so I can see the best of both worlds. These "millennials" that you speak of are the one's most people see on the news which is not what my representation of them are. As a school board member, these young adults are very progressive, but also have their head on their shoulders looking into the future (of how it has to be) as we cannot ever turn back to the 70's-80's, so we must move forward in the digital age. Also, as living in the lower mid-west, we in the south look at "those" millennials on TV and most of them are not what "we" in the south are about. Most of those kids are from the west coast, city life, etc...Please stop basing your views of "us" millennials from TV or facebook and volunteer your time to sit and talk with these young adults and get to know them as well as share your expertise, knowledge, love, time, etc we these very impressional young adults. Everyone that has distaste for the "newer" generation is not helping by telling them how stupid they are and how they do not know anything because of how you lived without a cellphone and internet. Again, I have lived my life that way, but also have lived it in my adulthood with a cellphone. I personally liked my life prior to the digital age as it was more simple, but I do not sit there and cry about how stupid these kids are today and they have know idea what life was like for me. Well they can say the same about their life as you cannot relate to their every changing life challenges. Could you imagine a time in your school when you have to go take a piss with the opposite sex that thinks they are like you? I mean, just in the phrase is a lot of "trauma" or "confusion" on what life really is. I mean these children are struggling with what is real and just like what we went through with our identity. Then on top of that you have "old" crappy men/women  basing these poor kids on how they are not good enough and how stupid they are. Well I can tell you these, as a provider it worries me because "we" are judging these kids too much and not helping them. My first thought when I heard these kids were eat tidepods was they wanted attention like we did as a child. Maybe their parents are divorced, or dad just killed himself or mom is a prostitute, or they are living with grandma or they have both a mom and dad, but their parents are ALWAYS on their phones and not giving them actually attention and sitting down with them to talk with them and play with them. I feel like these kids are struggling for basic human interactions, but we blame them that they are not doing what they should be doing??? Well we should be showing them by giving our time, attention, and love to them and setting our phones down just as we like for them to do the same.    

[papub]

Hi My Colleagues:
Firstly, let me say thank you to all that supported my candidacy. A serious thank you.

I ran because I was at the end of my career and still had the desire to give something back to my profession. It has given me much although I never really asked for anyting. That's what happens when you get involved.

For those of you that really want change, get off your backsides and let's make it happen. When the NPs (who I like BTW,) have 42 states with full practice and we have none, don't blame me or the AAPA-blame us all. Each and every one of us. Personally I have been talking about all of us working towards OTP (remember FPAR) for years. I have been talking about a title that does more harm than good for years. It's time to come together and work politically harder than we have ever worked before. For those that do not want to join the AAPA, please join. I can tell you things have changed from years ago. Is it perfect-no. Do you have responsive leadership that wants to move the profession ahead-yes. 

So come on, write the check and more than that, become someone who is involved. Write, talk, let your leaders know how you feel. Come up with SOLUTIONS.  Especially let your state leaders and delegates know your feelings.  I'll always listen for sure, but not to some self-serving stuff that gets us nowhere. Those days are over, it's time to start working!

Please, get involved!

And again, thanks."
Dave Mittman, PA, DFAAPA

NOT THE OPINION OF THE AAPA, JUST ME. 

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Dave - thank you for posting here, and a huge thank you for all of your work advancing the PA profession.

A few questions for you, whether you want to speak for your self or for the AAPA (come July).

1: We all agree with getting rid of useless legislative/regulatory burdens.  PAs shouldn't have bureaucrats mandating chart reviews, co-signatures, maximum PA to Doc ratios, etc.  But, with OTP/FPAR/whatever you call it, how do we draw a legislative line of independence for a profession that allows entrants to have only 2 years of medical education, yet allows providers to easily change between specialties?   There are some very "independent" PAs on these boards and elsewhere, but what about the 24 year old brilliant young woman who has never been outside of academia (who is becoming closer and closer to the 'typical' new PA grad)...should she have "independence"?  Are we going to push for legislative restrictions on new grads, but becoming "independent" after "X" number of years of practice?  What about our ability to change specialties?  I am very independent in the ED, but if we legislate that independence, would I be able to then go into family practice with the same independence?  (The answer to that should be a resounding NO!).  What about the orthopedic surgery PA or the CT surgery PA....what does "independence" look like for them?  

I take a lot of heat on these boards for not going along with OTP/FPAR, but it's because I just can't see what the end product actually looks like.  We certainly don't need another "we need to pass the bill to see what's in the bill" moment.

2: Are you going to keep AAPA above the deep political divisions in our country and focus on our PROFESSION instead of being drug into the mud by extremists on the left or right?  In the past, the AAPA has made it pretty clearly known they do not want to associate with people who have conservative values (the shaming of Dr. Ben Carson and Carol James is the grossest of examples), which told me they didn't want me as a member either.

3:  We need a national certification exam, and in my opinion we should recertify the same way as physicians.  That being said, the NCCPA has seemingly gone off the rails beginning with the PI/SA requirements and now fighting AGAINST legislation which expands our practice.  The AAPA challenged them and seemingly brought them back into alignment with the needs of the profession, but how do you think we can fix the inherent problems with NCCPA that allowed them to go off the rails in the first place?

4:  What should the AAPA do, if anything, about the rapid expansion of PA programs in the past 6 years (or so)?  Lots of anecdotes about PA education becoming watered down.  Add to that the decreasing focus of (actual) patient care experience and I'm concerned that we are lowering our standards too much.

Not sure you can answer these until you're in the hot-seat, or would be willing to answer them in a public forum...but these are questions I have for you.

Again, huge thanks for all that you have done for the profession, and congrats on the election!

-Boats

[camoman1234]

37 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Dave - thank you for posting here, and a huge thank you for all of your work advancing the PA profession.

A few questions for you, whether you want to speak for your self or for the AAPA (come July).

1: We all agree with getting rid of useless legislative/regulatory burdens.  PAs shouldn't have bureaucrats mandating chart reviews, co-signatures, maximum PA to Doc ratios, etc.  But, with OTP/FPAR/whatever you call it, how do we draw a legislative line of independence for a profession that allows entrants to have only 2 years of medical education, yet allows providers to easily change between specialties?   There are some very "independent" PAs on these boards and elsewhere, but what about the 24 year old brilliant young woman who has never been outside of academia (who is becoming closer and closer to the 'typical' new PA grad)...should she have "independence"?  Are we going to push for legislative restrictions on new grads, but becoming "independent" after "X" number of years of practice?  What about our ability to change specialties?  I am very independent in the ED, but if we legislate that independence, would I be able to then go into family practice with the same independence?  (The answer to that should be a resounding NO!).  What about the orthopedic surgery PA or the CT surgery PA....what does "independence" look like for them?  

I take a lot of heat on these boards for not going along with OTP/FPAR, but it's because I just can't see what the end product actually looks like.  We certainly don't need another "we need to pass the bill to see what's in the bill" moment.

2: Are you going to keep AAPA above the deep political divisions in our country and focus on our PROFESSION instead of being drug into the mud by extremists on the left or right?  In the past, the AAPA has made it pretty clearly known they do not want to associate with people who have conservative values (the shaming of Dr. Ben Carson and Carol James is the grossest of examples), which told me they didn't want me as a member either.

3:  We need a national certification exam, and in my opinion we should recertify the same way as physicians.  That being said, the NCCPA has seemingly gone off the rails beginning with the PI/SA requirements and now fighting AGAINST legislation which expands our practice.  The AAPA challenged them and seemingly brought them back into alignment with the needs of the profession, but how do you think we can fix the inherent problems with NCCPA that allowed them to go off the rails in the first place?

4:  What should the AAPA do, if anything, about the rapid expansion of PA programs in the past 6 years (or so)?  Lots of anecdotes about PA education becoming watered down.  Add to that the decreasing focus of (actual) patient care experience and I'm concerned that we are lowering our standards too much.

Not sure you can answer these until you're in the hot-seat, or would be willing to answer them in a public forum...but these are questions I have for you.

Again, huge thanks for all that you have done for the profession, and congrats on the election!

-Boats

I am for OTP and can see how it can be adaptable in all situations, but how about we focus on what NPs do for their independence. I think it should start with Family Medicine and then go into other specialties as we figure it out and fix the kinks. My question is what are those NPs doing in the independent states? What specialties are they working in? Is it just Family Medicine or Peds, womens health , etc...What does this look like and we can mirror off of it/make our changes to it. 

@Boatswain2PA: your comment of "that allows entrants to have only 2 years of medical education" is not completely true. As this makes "us" look like we have 1/2 the education of a MD/DO, which is not true. We go to school for 3 academic years worth of education (masters level PA schools) so 2/3 of medical school in 1/2 the time thing... Most PA schools are in their seat 100 weeks while most medical schools they are in their seat 140-150 weeks (on average) which is not twice as much as us...around 1 years of actual academic work. So I think we need to let the layman person understand how much education we actually get/do as this will help them understand why we think we deserve OTP.

Overall, I agree with you Boat. We can make changes for the best of OUR profession. I am excited about the future! 

[Boatswain2PA]

14 minutes ago, camoman1234 said:

OTP and can see how it can be adaptable in all situations

What does OTP look like for a CT surgery PA?  Gonna crack the chest all by yourself?  I know the answer to that is no, but I'm just pointing out that OTP to specialties other than FP/EM/IM doesn't mean anything beyond removal of hurdles such as co-sigs, etc.  Please correct me if I'm not seeing something here...

14 minutes ago, camoman1234 said:

what NPs do for their independence.

NPs are supposed specialists (they aren't).  Are you suggesting we corn-hole ourselves into specialties?  That may be (and likely is) the inevitable answer, with a required residency post PA school.

16 minutes ago, camoman1234 said:

As this makes "us" look like we have 1/2 the education of a MD/DO, which is not true.

We have LESS than half of the education.  4 years med school + 3 of residency is minimum for physicians = 7 versus 2 for PA school.  Granting you your point that our 2 years is much more intense than any 2 years of medical school, they still have more than twice our education.

[CAAdmission]

On 4/22/2018 at 7:37 AM, mcclane said:

 This forum is potentially one of the biggest roadblocks to change facing the profession today as it systematically disenfranchises a few hundred new members each year.

This illustrates one of my most serious concerns about trying to make progress in anything in our society. This entire rising generation can't tolerate dissenting viewpoints. If someone says something they don't like, they are not being disenfranchised - they are disenfranchizing themself.

Go ahead - for fun some time, find a group of young people and start talking to them about a viewpoint you know will be unpopular (pretend to take on that viewpoint is you have to). If you expect reasoned discussion, you will be sorely disappointed. You will be met with curses, shouting, chanting and be called every kind of "phobe." There is no insight, logic, consideration or tolerance.

There are people on here who I deeply diasagree with at times. I don't intend to scare them away, and they sure as hell won't scare me away. This forum gets slightly heated now and again, but it has been overwhelingly professional. If things said on this forum hurt peoples' delicate feelings, I hate to say it but they are too soft to work in medicine. 

[CAdamsPAC]

5 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

As a "Xennial" I had a analog childhood, but a digital adulthood so I can see the best of both worlds. These "millennials" that you speak of are the one's most people see on the news which is not what my representation of them are. As a school board member, these young adults are very progressive, but also have their head on their shoulders looking into the future (of how it has to be) as we cannot ever turn back to the 70's-80's, so we must move forward in the digital age. Also, as living in the lower mid-west, we in the south look at "those" millennials on TV and most of them are not what "we" in the south are about. Most of those kids are from the west coast, city life, etc...Please stop basing your views of "us" millennials from TV or facebook and volunteer your time to sit and talk with these young adults and get to know them as well as share your expertise, knowledge, love, time, etc we these very impressional young adults. Everyone that has distaste for the "newer" generation is not helping by telling them how stupid they are and how they do not know anything because of how you lived without a cellphone and internet. Again, I have lived my life that way, but also have lived it in my adulthood with a cellphone. I personally liked my life prior to the digital age as it was more simple, but I do not sit there and cry about how stupid these kids are today and they have know idea what life was like for me. Well they can say the same about their life as you cannot relate to their every changing life challenges. Could you imagine a time in your school when you have to go take a piss with the opposite sex that thinks they are like you? I mean, just in the phrase is a lot of "trauma" or "confusion" on what life really is. I mean these children are struggling with what is real and just like what we went through with our identity. Then on top of that you have "old" crappy men/women  basing these poor kids on how they are not good enough and how stupid they are. Well I can tell you these, as a provider it worries me because "we" are judging these kids too much and not helping them. My first thought when I heard these kids were eat tidepods was they wanted attention like we did as a child. Maybe their parents are divorced, or dad just killed himself or mom is a prostitute, or they are living with grandma or they have both a mom and dad, but their parents are ALWAYS on their phones and not giving them actually attention and sitting down with them to talk with them and play with them. I feel like these kids are struggling for basic human interactions, but we blame them that they are not doing what they should be doing??? Well we should be showing them by giving our time, attention, and love to them and setting our phones down just as we like for them to do the same.    

I think you should go back and read the post by a self identified "Millennial" stating what is coming from his generation. I am awaiting the "Sarcasm font app" for this site. Thank you.

[Boatswain2PA]

21 minutes ago, mcclane said:

The reason you (and your squad of internet pals) are disenfranchising your potential user base is because no one plans on coming to paforum, a site masquerading as a professional site, to read the inane social commentary which you manage to hammer into every corner of the site. The content to noise ratio here is so low, it's really not worth the trip. This site is garbage in, garbage out, and we need only look at the top posters to understand why that is.

Sounds like all you've got is personal attacks with no ability to discuss actual issues without getting butthurt.

The millenials may be the ones who save the world, but it certainly won't be this guy.

McClane- put on your big-boy pants and start a thread on whatever issue you want to discuss.  But remember, the Internet doesn't have the homogeneity of far-left ideologies you have been surrounded by in your academic career.

Welcome to the REAL world, and REAL diversity.  If you don't melt from the heat then you may learn how TRUE diversity actually does make us stronger.

[CAAdmission]

1 hour ago, mcclane said:

This site is garbage in, garbage out, and we need only look at the top posters to understand why that is.

As the saying goes, don't let the door hit you in the glutes on the way out...

[katieo]

9 hours ago, CJAdmission said:

This illustrates one of my most serious concerns about trying to make progress in anything in our society. This entire rising generation can't tolerate dissenting viewpoints. If someone says something they don't like, they are not being disenfranchised - they are disenfranchizing themself.

Go ahead - for fun some time, find a group of young people and start talking to them about a viewpoint you know will be unpopular (pretend to take on that viewpoint is you have to). If you expect reasoned discussion, you will be sorely disappointed. You will be met with curses, shouting, chanting and be called every kind of "phobe." There is no insight, logic, consideration or tolerance.

There are people on here who I deeply diasagree with at times. I don't intend to scare them away, and they sure as hell won't scare me away. This forum gets slightly heated now and again, but it has been overwhelingly professional. If things said on this forum hurt peoples' delicate feelings, I hate to say it but they are too soft to work in medicine. 

This is true for all age groups. People are not more easily offended today than any other time. They’re just offended by different things. I can think of plenty view points that are likely to rile up older people rather than provoke reasoned discussion. 

[CAdamsPAC]

4 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Sounds like all you've got is personal attacks with no ability to discuss actual issues without getting butthurt.

The millenials may be the ones who save the world, but it certainly won't be this guy.

McClane- put on your big-boy pants and start a thread on whatever issue you want to discuss.  But remember, the Internet doesn't have the homogeneity of far-left ideologies you have been surrounded by in your academic career.

Welcome to the REAL world, and REAL diversity.  If you don't melt from the heat then you may learn how TRUE diversity actually does make us stronger.

Bravo Zulu, Shipmate!

[CAAdmission]

8 hours ago, katieo said:

This is true for all age groups. People are not more easily offended today than any other time. They’re just offended by different things. I can think of plenty view points that are likely to rile up older people rather than provoke reasoned discussion. 

There was never a time when I was in college where a college administration would have tolerated a group of students disrupting a speaker. Much less destroying property and driving speakers from campus. At my particular school I would have been summarily expelled for such activities.

Our younger generation preaches tolerance, but they then ignore, villianize and shout down opposing viewpoints. George Orwell couldn't have written it better.

[katieo]

In my experience each generation has been hypocritically pessimistic about successive generations, even though the preceding generations were just as pessimistic. I don’t really believe people are getting worse over time. I think it’s just human nature. “Parents just don’t understand!”

[Cideous]

16 minutes ago, katieo said:

In my experience each generation has been hypocritically pessimistic about successive generations, even though the preceding generations were just as pessimistic. I don’t really believe people are getting worse over time. I think it’s just human nature. “Parents just don’t understand!”

 

I respectfully disagree. Millennials are as a generation MUCH closer to their parents...Gen X'ers then Gen X'ers were to their Boomer parents.  Most Gen'Xer's simply "survived" the "ME FIRST!" generation of boomers.  

[Boatswain2PA]

13 hours ago, katieo said:

People are not more easily offended today than any other time. They’re just offended by different things.

Maybe they don't get offended "more easily" than any other time, but people today certainly take their offended "status" to new levels, such as shouting down those who they don't agree with, requiring "safe spaces", etc, etc, ad nauseum.  While it's certainly not the majority of millennials, it's the vocal minority (highlighted by the leftist media) who have created a mentality of "victimhood".  

For example, McClane cries about being disinfranchised because some people here don't share his/her world view, thus setting him/herself up as a "victim."  Compare this to people who were ACTUALLY disinfranchised through the threat or actual use of force by southern Democrats....

Disinfranchisement to McClane:  People don't disagree with me so therefore I'm a victim....I need a safe space!

Disinfranchisement to blacks in the Democrat controlled South:  They hung my uncle from the tree in his front yard, burned a cross in my front yard, passed laws making it illegal for me to own a firearm, and then passed laws that actually difficult for me to vote.

Big difference.

2 hours ago, katieo said:

each generation has been hypocritically pessimistic about successive generations,

Agreed with the general pessimism, but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to the generalizations across the generations.