Grover Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) I have been a Physician Assistant for 20 years. 14 years at same corporation that went from Family Practice to urgent care 6 years ago. The docs had me start up the urgent care/after hour clinic and I would see 30-40 patients per day. Salary with bonus was $133,000 annually with 4 weeks PTO, malpractice paid, 401k with 3% match.....loved my patients and felt job was stable with 98.5% patient satisfaction score on a consecutive monthly basis. However, in February 2020 called into office to be told contract was not going to be renewed. They hired a cheaper NP and didn't even give me the opportunity ty o take a pay cut. Needless to say, I was in shock and deeply hurt by this. Fast forward. I have been looking for a job for last 7 months and have just received, what I feel, is a horrible offer. Urgent Care....hourly rate of $55 ( they are firm..I tried upping it), 10 days PTO a year, Thanksgiving and Christmas only holidays off, every o th her Friday and Saturday. No 401k match, they will pay malpractice "occurance" but no other benefits. I would have to pay my health insurance fully, short and long term paid by me as well. I have never seen such low ball figures. Is this the norm now with NP saturation?...I have to make a decision by tomorrow morning. Any advice?....I am in northeast Tennessee.....just dont know what to do...but, 90 day out if wrong move Edited October 12, 2020 by Grover Misspelled word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Uggggggh. I can't imagine going from what you had to this offer. If you're tied to the location I guess you have to take what you can get but there is no way in hell a 20 year PA should be making that. The rest of the package is pretty ridiculous too from the sounds of it. I'm sorry you're in this situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Long deep sigh..... This is the new normal, and you are right....it is from NP saturation. They come out of online NP school and will work for close to nothing. I know it doesn't help, but just know it was not you. You didn't stand a chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 Thanks for the feedback. I knew it wasn't me but, having been at one place for so long, I didn't realize how bad it had gotten out there. I just could not believe the $55 hour offer, 12 plus hour shifts and I am DOT certified and can work autonomously. My patients have been so upset and keep asking my old nursing staff where I have gone. I am blessed that I had a substantial emergency fund that has kept me above water but that wont last forever. And $275 a week in unemployment doesn't cut it. I just didn't know if I needed to continue to wait it out or if this is what I can expect on future job offers. Age thing doesn't help either. I may be 63 but I ran circles around the younger PA's and NP's. This is the worst contract I've ever seen and just really needed to know if this is the "new norm"....I will have to pass on this one unless I hear that this is what I can expect. You'd think in urgent care, they would want experience to cut down on liability risk. But, guess we live in a much different world than 10 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Grover said: Thanks for the feedback. I knew it wasn't me but, having been at one place for so long, I didn't realize how bad it had gotten out there. I just could not believe the $55 hour offer, 12 plus hour shifts and I am DOT certified and can work autonomously. My patients have been so upset and keep asking my old nursing staff where I have gone. I am blessed that I had a substantial emergency fund that has kept me above water but that wont last forever. And $275 a week in unemployment doesn't cut it. I just didn't know if I needed to continue to wait it out or if this is what I can expect on future job offers. Age thing doesn't help either. I may be 63 but I ran circles around the younger PA's and NP's. This is the worst contract I've ever seen and just really needed to know if this is the "new norm"....I will have to pass on this one unless I hear that this is what I can expect. You'd think in urgent care, they would want experience to cut down on liability risk. But, guess we live in a much different world than 10 years ago It is brother, the admins don't care about liability. They don't get deposed...you do. My advice is to keep looking or, at the very least, consider moving. I just pain for you as a fellow Urgent Care provider. We work our asses off with huge liability. $55/hr is offensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 Yes...I agree. I do have several months of savings, thank God, without dipping into 401k. Don't owe much on house.....so, not willing to relocate. I know that I'm worth more than $55 hour with no paid benefits with exception of them paying malpractice. At last job my collectables exceeded a half million annually. But, this company said that the highest they'll pay is $55. However, average salary for my area in urgent care is $126,000. So, guess I just wanted validation on turning offer down. Just gotta find the right words to say in the morning when they call for answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, Grover said: Thanks for the feedback. I knew it wasn't me but, having been at one place for so long, I didn't realize how bad it had gotten out there. I just could not believe the $55 hour offer, 12 plus hour shifts and I am DOT certified and can work autonomously. My patients have been so upset and keep asking my old nursing staff where I have gone. I am blessed that I had a substantial emergency fund that has kept me above water but that wont last forever. And $275 a week in unemployment doesn't cut it. I just didn't know if I needed to continue to wait it out or if this is what I can expect on future job offers. Age thing doesn't help either. I may be 63 but I ran circles around the younger PA's and NP's. This is the worst contract I've ever seen and just really needed to know if this is the "new norm"....I will have to pass on this one unless I hear that this is what I can expect. You'd think in urgent care, they would want experience to cut down on liability risk. But, guess we live in a much different world than 10 years ago Come out to the PNW, starting new grads off at $64/hr with full bennies, good retirement, bonus structure etc.! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 Unfortunately, the cost of living would put me back in same position in the PNW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted October 13, 2020 Administrator Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Grover said: Unfortunately, the cost of living would put me back in same position in the PNW Don't try to live in Seattle or Portland, and you'll actually do quite well. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSPAC2 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 38 minutes ago, rev ronin said: Don't try to live in Seattle or Portland, and you'll actually do quite well. I will second this. Come to eastern WA. Low COL. No state income tax. APPs in our FQHC average 150K/year. The UC base salary nearby is 140K. Oh, and please join us at WAPA. We need more folks to advocate for OTP. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayamom Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Why not take the job and keep looking. I know working and looking for employment can be exhausting. Sorry this happened to you. I can't imagine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Medicine is no longer a profession. It is completely a business, and a dirty one at that. So sad to see. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawave Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 I wouldn’t take it. Only validates them and some policy wonk will get a high five and a bonus because he made a decision to undercut experienced providers. I’d say no, and I’d tell them flat out that their package is trash. Best of luck to you! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac30 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 The offer itself is insulting, and under regular circumstances I'd say turn it down with as much indignation as you can muster up. But your financial situation will dictate the correct answer for you, and that's all that matters. If you take it, I would continue looking around and snap on the next thing that is a real offer. Good luck, let us know how everything turns out! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMM2019 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 I started out at an urgent care that paid 45-47 per hour in the northeast... so I think the days of high UC salaries might be ending soon. Even PAs who had been there 8-10+ years made the same rate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 13, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2020 UC on the west coast is still paying $65/hr plus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
einstein2u Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Same thing happen to a buddy of mine. 15+ years at a family practice and his contract was not renewed, and replaced by NP. So you young ones, be mindful, you are just a number. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) I could take job but they will not go lower than a 90 day out clause. I did get them down from 120 day out. They said $55/hr firm. Over 100 patients seen yesterday (covidcity) with 2 providers for 12+ hour shift. I was use to seeing 30-40 in 7 hours....so, no big deal on patient load. But, $55/hr and I pay full for all benefits. They pay malpractice and liscence fee but not even CME'....horrible....but, may be norm now in east tn....idk...I ordered the AAPA report to substantiate why I was asking for more than $55/hr. It just doesn’t matter. Report was waste of money because companies are going to pay what they are gonna pay. I declined the position. I cannot contribute on resetting the salary of well experienced physician assistants...if everyone takes low salaries, the salaries will keep declining. That’s the total problem right there!!! Very unfortunate Edited October 14, 2020 by Grover Added content 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Serious question... Can an employer legally terminate you from your position due to your pay/salary? For instance, I stay 20 years at a hospital, my pay goes from $80,000 to $130,000 in that span of time... Then one day they say "Hey we have replaced you with a new graduate willing to work for $80,000 an hour." Obviously they can make up performance issues etc, and "find a reason" but can they do it over money alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 14, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 14, 2020 the only complaint you might have is age discrimination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, ventana said: the only complaint you might have is age discrimination So a valid reason to terminate an employee... "You have reached the high end of the pay-scale, therefore we are replacing you with someone willing to work for less." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 14, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, ShakaHoo said: So a valid reason to terminate an employee... "You have reached the high end of the pay-scale, therefore we are replacing you with someone willing to work for less." but it is reasonable to argue that income goes up with age, so high wage earners are older and if the only reason to terminate is income that means age.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 hours ago, ShakaHoo said: So a valid reason to terminate an employee... "You have reached the high end of the pay-scale, therefore we are replacing you with someone willing to work for less." Not entirely sure there has to be a "valid reason". Right to work essentially means right to get fired. Likely opens them up to some sort of legal argument but if the law ends up on their side it becomes a risk: benefit calculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 I’m sure it is a beautiful place to live. However, state income tax is at 10.3%. Tennessee has no state income tax and cost of living is excellent for retirees. Matter of fact, Tennessee is one of the best retirement states when it comes to paying no taxes on retirement income. Home here is nearly paid for and we love our Smoky Mountains . Transplanted here from Louisiana 16 years ago in which we had to pay state tax. It’s much nicer to keep more money earned. Some will come up. I have faith and will keep applying. It appears that there are several of us throughout the United States that are in the same boat. Very unfortunate. I bought the AAPA 2020 job rèport but this urgent care company doesn’t even want to come close to the medium range. I do appreciate all the responses, if I took position, I’d have to give 90 day notice and most jobs won’t wait 90 days if they have a position to fill. On all my other contracts, I had a 30 day out. I was only able to get them down to 90 days from the 120 days. I spoke with their hiring person this morning and, once again, tried for more than $55 but they continue to state it is firm. Idk.....but, I did tell them to go and do what they needed to but, if I decided to accept offer, I’ll message them and let them know. Only 2 holidays are recognized and that is Thanksgiving and Christmas....however, those days are off without pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Not true on having to have good cause to let you go at end of contract. My paper stated “contract not renewed “......I was told corporate restructuring. Not one disciplinary action in 14 years. Only consistently high patient satisfaction scores. So, in a “right to work state” unless unionized, you can be done at end of contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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