PAs who have been furloughed

[CAdamsPAC]

2 hours ago, sas5814 said:

Doing very well thanks for asking. 

She found a new job (after the accident AND getting furloughed from her position), went to her 1st day of orientation and got sent home day 2 because one of the nurses from orientation was COVID positive. Now she is getting 80 hours of free PTO to sit home.

I've been off 2 weeks of what I assume will be a couple of months. Stir crazy doesn't even begin to describe it. There is an open outdoor range nearby so there are sanity breaks.

Glad to hear that she is well. I escaped my North Slope  oilfield job right before Alaska locked down travel. My coworkers are eating box lunches in their rooms up there now days! Being healthy and getting paid to do range time is a good deal! Keep it up and downrange.

[Febrifuge]

I’m finding myself struggling with some unexpected, complicated emotions. Our group is nominally a not-for-profit, and we’re both a health system and a health insurance plan. The effect is that since revenue is way down, it sounds like we’re at serious risk. The CEO announced that she is (and presumably others in the C-suite are) taking a 40% pay cut. They announced that first.

15 minutes later, I learned that everyone in our division will be asked to take a 30% pay cut. Our MDs and PAs are salaried, so the math is easy. People elsewhere in our part of the org who are on RVUs will be paid at 70% of their 2019 average. This will be in place for 4 months, and then we’ll see. 

I mean, I guess it *sounds* fair, and it’s better than a lot of what I’m reading here. But, ouch. I spent a lot of years poor, and took out all the loans to change careers. I’m nearly as old as friends who have been practicing for twice as long. I never thought of myself as being obsessed with money, but not gonna lie, this sucks. Feels that the only choices are a) to go along with the idea that my labor is now worth less than it would be if the rest of the org were doing elective surgeries and over-ordering tests, or whatever, or b) accept that I’m being under-paid but there’s no option other than grin and bear it, or get furloughed with no idea of a return date.

[ShakaHoo]

33 minutes ago, Febrifuge said:

I’m finding myself struggling with some unexpected, complicated emotions. Our group is nominally a not-for-profit, and we’re both a health system and a health insurance plan. The effect is that since revenue is way down, it sounds like we’re at serious risk. The CEO announced that she is (and presumably others in the C-suite are) taking a 40% pay cut. They announced that first.

15 minutes later, I learned that everyone in our division will be asked to take a 30% pay cut. Our MDs and PAs are salaried, so the math is easy. People elsewhere in our part of the org who are on RVUs will be paid at 70% of their 2019 average. This will be in place for 4 months, and then we’ll see. 

I mean, I guess it *sounds* fair, and it’s better than a lot of what I’m reading here. But, ouch. I spent a lot of years poor, and took out all the loans to change careers. I’m nearly as old as friends who have been practicing for twice as long. I never thought of myself as being obsessed with money, but not gonna lie, this sucks. Feels that the only choices are a) to go along with the idea that my labor is now worth less than it would be if the rest of the org were doing elective surgeries and over-ordering tests, or whatever, or b) accept that I’m being under-paid but there’s no option other than grin and bear it, or get furloughed with no idea of a return date.

I think it is utterly ridiculous.  As you said we paid a lot of money to earn our degree.  I know many state employees who are "working from home" consisting of watching television, reading books, and playing video games, who are 100% compensated.  I know that teachers and school employees are "working from home and teaching online" which entails a few hours of work here and there.  The fact that we are being asked to take pay-cuts, however, other truly non-essential personnel continue to be fully compensated is bogus.  

All of the profitable years these hospitals have had where they pay out a measly 1-2-3% bonus, while my friends with MBA's are getting 50% bonuses is bogus.

Compensation is not why we went into medicine, but when we are struggling to pay a mortgage and feed our children, I think it is simply unacceptable.  

Edited April 22, 2020 by ShakaHoo

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Or you could be in my former position where the APP's and other clinic staff are at home since the district clinic didn't have enough PPE so since they're salaried, and budgeted for through the end of the school year, they're being paid to not see patients.  I think I could've made it through the end of January for another year of vesting and then resigned while out of the clinic.  Oh well, it worked out ok.

[Cideous]

25 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

Or you could be in my former position where the APP's and other clinic staff are at home since the district clinic didn't have enough PPE so since they're salaried, and budgeted for through the end of the school year, they're being paid to not see patients.  I think I could've made it through the end of January for another year of vesting and then resigned while out of the clinic.  Oh well, it worked out ok.

That's the exception out here, not the rule.  Most of us are getting slaughtered.  20-50% pay cuts, furloughed without any pay or benefits or just flat out fired.  So much for job security in medicine.  I guess we all should have went into ER/ICU?

 

For those in Medicaid expansion states, at least they can put their kids on expanded Medicaid for a few months.  Those of us in the "go die in a ditch" states....not so much.

 

As for the scenario posted above...I would stay, at least for a while.  It is gonna hurt but right now is the last time you want to be out there looking for a job.  Trust me.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Cideous

[Febrifuge]

Yeah, I am not at all interested in leaving. When the world isn’t upside-down, this is the best team I’ve ever been part of. It’s just, nowhere is safe, y’know? It was naive to assume that being salaried would insulate us from the revenue/ RVU bullshit, but I had been hanging on to a little of that feeling. 

[ANESMCR]

1 hour ago, ShakaHoo said:

I think it is utterly ridiculous.  As you said we paid a lot of money to earn our degree.  I know many state employees who are "working from home" consisting of watching television, reading books, and playing video games, who are 100% compensated.  I know that teachers and school employees are "working from home and teaching online" which entails a few hours of work here and there.  The fact that we are being asked to take pay-cuts, however, other truly non-essential personnel continue to be fully compensated is bogus.  

All of the profitable years these hospitals have had where they pay out a measly 1-2-3% bonus, while my friends with MBA's are getting 50% bonuses is bogus.

Compensation is not why we went into medicine, but when we are struggling to pay a mortgage and feed our children, I think it is simply unacceptable.  

Very well said.

[SedRate]

I was speaking with a surgeon colleague recently, and he said he received a check from the government two weeks ago as a quasi stimulus payment. Since he is a Medicare participant, he got a cut of the total charges. He explained, for example, that if he billed 0.002% of all Medicare charges, he got a 0.002% cut of whatever the total amount was. And because he's self-employed and bills out his own NPI, the check was written to him. His buddies in other states who are hospital-employed, however, did not receive a check. Instead, because the hospital bills their NPI and receives payment, the HOSPITAL got the check. And do you think the hospital has paid it forward? No. Instead, the hospital has cut their pay just like a lot of those on here. So not only is the hospital getting money from the government but they are saving money by cutting pay, contributing less to 401k, etc. 

Is anyone else aware that this is going on? 

Edited April 22, 2020 by SedRate

[SedRate]

I'm not sure if this is what he was referring to because this states it must be repaid: https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-releases/cms-approves-approximately-34-billion-providers-acceleratedadvance-payment-program-medicare

[DarwinStarwin]

The Gillian Welch song Everything Is Free puts it eloquently.

[MyNameWasUsed]

My ED cut Physician hours by 30-40% and cut APC hours by 25%. I think the docs are taking a bigger hit because they're also based on productivity. My part time gig cut all my hours. Still very fortunate to be having a job but I kind of wished I went to NYC instead. It would have helped my ED by giving my colleagues more hours and I would have had a great experience in NYC (plus the 13k/week of course). 

[MoneyManPA]

13k/week in NYC? I haven’t seen that in my email from the headhunters. Where did you hear those numbers? Do you know anyone actually getting 13k/week? I also got my pay cut 35% currently working in upstate NY urgent care.

[SickEKMan]

1 hour ago, MoneyManPA said:

13k/week in NYC? I haven’t seen that in my email from the headhunters. Where did you hear those numbers? Do you know anyone actually getting 13k/week? I also got my pay cut 35% currently working in upstate NY urgent care.

yes this is legit.  Krucial Staffing, though they haven't sent PAs in a few weeks.

[bobuddy]

8 hours ago, SickEKMan said:

yes this is legit.  Krucial Staffing, though they haven't sent PAs in a few weeks.

Yes- Krucial Staffing was sending people to  New Orleans and NYC.   They are currently looking for a few APP’s to go to Chicago.   They have a FB page and if you follow it they will announce when they are going to do the next round of deployments and the location.  The deployments are for 21 days straight- 12 hour shifts.   You don’t get to choose if you are nights or days and from what I am reading from people there- you are bussed to your location so the shifts are more like 14-15 hours long by the time you get back to your hotel.   I seriously considered signing up but didn’t.   Yet.  

[MoneyManPA]

Thank you for the info SickEKMan.
 

I was getting emails from staffing agencies to work in NYC over the past month for $75 per hour which I thought was silly for COVID coverage and then now to work in Philadelphia for $65 per hour also for COVID coverage. I’ve been a PA for 5 years now. Mostly working UC/ED. Usually both to try to pay off debt. I typically get $85/hr independent contractor for solo UC and $70-75/hr for per diem as employee (W2) in the ED in Pennsylvania and New York. I have done some locum work in the past and see from other posts how much the staffing companies were screwing me over in hindsight so agree it’s better to work right with the hospital/owner if possible. Any place on the forum for salary and hourly rate transparency? If we all know what others are making we can use that to help bolster our arguments. My last manager sighted MGMA average when we discussed a raise. I sighted AAPA salary report. After I gave resignation notice they offered $10/hr increase.

So as a whole, how do we push our agenda forward with lessening regulations to get us on par with NP? In my experience doctors prefer PA’s in ED and UC and also I’ve known a lot of patients who prefer PA, usually due to lack of NP clinical experience. I’ve met NP before who don’t even suture!?

[JDayBFL]

I work for a large, non-profit pediatric center. I am in a surgical sub-specialty and 50% of our volume has been cut because of elective cancellations. We have six APPs in our specialty and really only enough work for 1-2 per day so we are just rotating who is in each day. Some surgical specialties have had their volumes cut >80%.
 

Hospital board of trustees announced they are dipping into a very large rainy day fund and paying 100% base pay to all 7,000 employees through July and will reassess again then. Some employees of clinics that are closed are helping out in other areas of hospital doing temperature screenings and other trivial tasks for one or two days a week and continuing to take full salary. 
 

Overall impressed by the leadership at our hospital and thankful that I don’t have to worry about a pay cut— even though I was expecting one. I’m sorry for everyone that is struggling and hope you find opportunities to continue to be paid what you are worth to your organization. 

[Cideous]

24 minutes ago, JDayBFL said:

I work for a large, non-profit pediatric center. I am in a surgical sub-specialty and 50% of our volume has been cut because of elective cancellations. We have six APPs in our specialty and really only enough work for 1-2 per day so we are just rotating who is in each day. Some surgical specialties have had their volumes cut >80%.
 

Hospital board of trustees announced they are dipping into a very large rainy day fund and paying 100% base pay to all 7,000 employees through July and will reassess again then. Some employees of clinics that are closed are helping out in other areas of hospital doing temperature screenings and other trivial tasks for one or two days a week and continuing to take full salary. 
 

Overall impressed by the leadership at our hospital and thankful that I don’t have to worry about a pay cut— even though I was expecting one. I’m sorry for everyone that is struggling and hope you find opportunities to continue to be paid what you are worth to your organization. 

That is fantastic.  The exception in our medical system, but nonetheless I am glad to hear it.

[MT2PA]

9 hours ago, bobuddy said:

Yes- Krucial Staffing was sending people to  New Orleans and NYC.   They are currently looking for a few APP’s to go to Chicago.   They have a FB page and if you follow it they will announce when they are going to do the next round of deployments and the location.  The deployments are for 21 days straight- 12 hour shifts.   You don’t get to choose if you are nights or days and from what I am reading from people there- you are bussed to your location so the shifts are more like 14-15 hours long by the time you get back to your hotel.   I seriously considered signing up but didn’t.   Yet.  

Just FYI:

https://www.businessinsider.com/nurses-sue-after-state-of-ny-hospitals-worse-than-expected-2020-4

While it's 'legit' as in yes, they do send you with intention to pay you, it does not sound like a great situation. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by MT2PA

[EMEDPA]

56 minutes ago, MT2PA said:

Just FYI:

https://www.businessinsider.com/nurses-sue-after-state-of-ny-hospitals-worse-than-expected-2020-4

While it's 'legit' as in yes, they do send you with intention to pay you, it does not sound like a great situation. 

I have heard this as well. They are dropping folks with only primary care experience into ERs and ICUs and expecting them to move the meat. The only vetting is "do you think you can do this". Not a great plan. Ditto for RNs. Floor nurses expected to manage sick , vented pts in the ICU, etc. 

[Hope2PA]

If you are "volunteering" to go to an area hard hit with this virus, or any other disaster, why would you expect to not be working with very ill patients?  I am sorry, but why would someone with home health experience think working in the situation was a good idea?  Oh yea, $13,000.  I am not sure how positions were advertised, but the reality is they knew they signed up for a disaster! 

[EMEDPA]

1 hour ago, Hope2PA said:

If you are "volunteering" to go to an area hard hit with this virus, or any other disaster, why would you expect to not be working with very ill patients?  I am sorry, but why would someone with home health experience think working in the situation was a good idea?  Oh yea, $13,000.  I am not sure how positions were advertised, but the reality is they knew they signed up for a disaster! 

true enough. apparently the ads talked about good ppe, adequate support, etc and that was not the case. Still floor nurse to ICU sounds like a non-starter to me. 

[MoneyManPA]

 

“Yes- Krucial Staffing was sending people to  New Orleans and NYC.   They are currently looking for a few APP’s to go to Chicago.   They have a FB page and if you follow it they will announce when they are going to do the next round of deployments and the location.  The deployments are for 21 days straight- 12 hour shifts.   You don’t get to choose if you are nights or days and from what I am reading from people there- you are bussed to your location so the shifts are more like 14-15 hours long by the time you get back to your hotel.   I seriously considered signing up but didn’t.   Yet.“
 

bobuddy, where are you reading about the folks working for Krucial Staffing? I read that linked article about the nurses and NPs and agree with Hope2PA. It would be  intimidating not having adequate PPE, but with regard to the type of work, they did sign up to work in a disaster zone. I have also been on travel and locum assignments where things are not what one might expect. They are hiring you on because they are in a pinch, hence paying handsomely. They aren’t hiring you on with stellar pay to do wellness checks and talk about the news and sports with patients.
 

What are other folks doing about pay cuts and furlough? Are you just riding it out? Are you seeking locum work?

[mgriffiths]

11 hours ago, Hope2PA said:

If you are "volunteering" to go to an area hard hit with this virus, or any other disaster, why would you expect to not be working with very ill patients?

I actually called in and spoke with Krucial several weeks ago.  At that time it was stated that I would be deployed to work in a screening location and/or UC, specifically NOT an ICU or ER (I asked).  Ended up not going because I think my wife would either have killed or divorced me (honestly not even really joking here), but I would have been rather pissed if I was told I wouldn't be working ICU or ER and ended up working ICU/ER without adequate training or PPE.

Edited April 26, 2020 by mgriffiths

[Mayamom]

You really could have seen this happening sorry to say.  I have filled out an application for a step down unit at a local arena that the national guard converted but have heard nothing back.  

I hope all these provider are immune from any and all liability.  

[Cideous]

4 minutes ago, Mayamom said:

I hope all these provider are immune from any and all liability.  

Hah.  They are supposed to be protected from liability for all but "egregious errors".  Have you ever read a malpractice lawsuit even the simple ones?  No matter what you did no matter how small, they make you sound like the worst provider in the history of medicine who woke up that morning singing, "today I'm going to kill my patient, do dah do dah!".  I said this months ago on this board...the lawsuits that are going to flood in when this is all said and done are going to be shocking and right now are being vastly underreported.  Just wait.  

Malpractice attorneys are licking their chops right now.