PAs who have been furloughed

[jaredlj3]

3 minutes ago, Cideous said:

Exactly what I was thinking but who has the $$$ to sue them....

Good point, but if your contract has a payout for breaching then it would be worth it. Also I would imagine the lawyer fees would be less then your salary loss. Just a thought. Good luck everyone 

[mgriffiths]

3 hours ago, jaredlj3 said:

For those who have been furloughed. Does your contract include a guaranteed base salary or are you solely compensation based? If you have a guarantee and were furloughed then your employer breached your contract. 

I am on an "employment agreement," so I don't know how that compares to a contract.  But, you are not wrong in principle.  Could I go this route?  Probably, but at the same time I believe my employer would have the strong defense that my continued working was my, at minimum, tacit agreement to an amended "employment agreement" that was clearly defined.  The alternative would be for either me to give my 90 day notice or my employer to give me my 90 day notice (required by the employment agreement), and I would continue to receive my full pay but be out of a job after 90 days (and likely have significant difficulty finding a new job at ANY point)...which seems to be about the stupidest thing I could do right now other than walking into the ICU and making out with a COVID-19 patient.

Plus, it's not like I can't understand that my employer is hurting.  Could they have done a better job planning?  Certainly, but the same could be said about every healthcare entity in our country (and most throughout the world), as well as pretty much every level of government throughout our country.

Edited April 10, 2020 by mgriffiths

[sas5814]

I am an hourly employee. My organization has a 5 tier plan and how far the plan goes depends on the duration of the crisis. Initially we eliminated all OT and stopped using agency or PRN staffing. Then clinic hours were shortened. Now we are in the stage where many clinics are closed and services lines are stripped bare and many of us are furoughed.

Because we are subject to recall if numbers climb we have a furlough pay plan (this only applies to people subject to short notice recall) they are rounding out our last working pay period with our PTO. Then they will pay us at 70% of our usual rate for 4 more weeks and we can round those hours up to 100% using PTO if we choose. If you don't have enough PTO in th bank you can advance up to 80 hours. After those 4 weeks we are just furloughed and can apply for unemployment. 

All in all I think they have done and are doing just about everything they can. It has given me a bit of breathing room.

[Cideous]

On 4/9/2020 at 6:58 PM, mgriffiths said:

 

Plus, it's not like I can't understand that my employer is hurting.  Could they have done a better job planning?  Certainly, but the same could be said about every healthcare entity in our country (and most throughout the world), as well as pretty much every level of government throughout our country.

 

I appreciate your attitude, I really do but.....it's exactly what they want you to think.  When things are good...like your getting slammed 40 patients a day and they are racking in piles of sweaty money, do they just massively increase your salary because "all should share in the good bounty?"  

F no.  

But when times go bad, the corporate overlords will drop our ass in a New York second and cry at how bad they are hurting.  My advice to them is to pick up a damn stethoscope and start humping.....like we have done for years.

[mgriffiths]

31 minutes ago, Cideous said:

I appreciate your attitude, I really do but.....it's exactly what they want you to think.  When things are good...like your getting slammed 40 patients a day and they are racking in piles of sweaty money, do they just massively increase your salary because "all should share in the good bounty?"  

F no.  

But when times go bad, the corporate overlords will drop our ass in a New York second and cry at how bad they are hurting.  My advice to them is to pick up a damn stethoscope and start humping.....like we have done for years.

You are not wrong, and I would love to play this out in reality.  But, the true reality is that I am an employee and as an employee I need a paycheck.  When the day comes that I don't need a paycheck and instead have control over my financial future (or as much control as one can have) then I have options.  But, right now, if I can take a 10% cut to my income and help my employer exist in the future (and therefore my job exist in the future) then I'm all for it.  Does this make me hate my employer any less?  NO!  I 100% believe they should have prepared better for this.  But, the reality is that they actually are better prepared than many hospitals, as many are laying off providers or cutting salaries even deeper.

[klairsee]

I'm irate and emotionally crushed. My employer just announced a 25% cut in our clinic time. PAs/NPs have to use their PTO to make up that 25% (10 hours/week). Clinicians who are hourly non-exempt, like RNs, will be paid 70% of their pay for any hours they are sent home to 40 hours and they will not have to use PTO. The physicians have contracts and will be paid their full salary and will not have to use PTO for the 10 hours per week they do not work. How is this okay? Anyone out there with advice?

[mgriffiths]

1 hour ago, tahi193 said:

I'm irate and emotionally crushed. My employer just announced a 25% cut in our clinic time. PAs/NPs have to use their PTO to make up that 25% (10 hours/week). Clinicians who are hourly non-exempt, like RNs, will be paid 70% of their pay for any hours they are sent home to 40 hours and they will not have to use PTO. The physicians have contracts and will be paid their full salary and will not have to use PTO for the 10 hours per week they do not work. How is this okay? Anyone out there with advice?

Don't have any advice, but that is beyond ridiculous.

[jaredlj3]

On 4/11/2020 at 5:55 PM, tahi193 said:

I'm irate and emotionally crushed. My employer just announced a 25% cut in our clinic time. PAs/NPs have to use their PTO to make up that 25% (10 hours/week). Clinicians who are hourly non-exempt, like RNs, will be paid 70% of their pay for any hours they are sent home to 40 hours and they will not have to use PTO. The physicians have contracts and will be paid their full salary and will not have to use PTO for the 10 hours per week they do not work. How is this okay? Anyone out there with advice?

Just to get a better idea. Are you salary or hourly? I would imagine if you have a salary then it should mirror the physicians. 

[jaredlj3]

I was just notified today that all advanced practice providers are being furloughed without pay for 30 days. I have a contract with a guaranteed salary however the hospitals argument is that they don't have to honor it because i'm not productive. Contract simply states 40 hours a week, nothing about productivity. Not sure if it's worth fighting because there is essentially no penalty to the company for breaching my contract, it just gives me the right to terminate my contract if I want. I have a good salary and really don't want to terminate it. The hospital higher ups might triumph once again. 

[Cideous]

4 hours ago, jaredlj3 said:

I was just notified today that all advanced practice providers are being furloughed without pay for 30 days. I have a contract with a guaranteed salary however the hospitals argument is that they don't have to honor it because i'm not productive. Contract simply states 40 hours a week, nothing about productivity. Not sure if it's worth fighting because there is essentially no penalty to the company for breaching my contract, it just gives me the right to terminate my contract if I want. I have a good salary and really don't want to terminate it. The hospital higher ups might triumph once again. 

 

[rev ronin]

7 hours ago, jaredlj3 said:

I was just notified today that all advanced practice providers are being furloughed without pay for 30 days. I have a contract with a guaranteed salary however the hospitals argument is that they don't have to honor it because i'm not productive. Contract simply states 40 hours a week, nothing about productivity. Not sure if it's worth fighting because there is essentially no penalty to the company for breaching my contract, it just gives me the right to terminate my contract if I want. I have a good salary and really don't want to terminate it. The hospital higher ups might triumph once again. 

Consult an employment law attorney. Unlike private businesses, hospitals are NOT going to go bankrupt: you have a reasonable chance of recovering monetarily, I expect.

[ERpa2014]

So after being told we are at least getting our base salary with the low patient volumes of 135 hours, my employer wants us to change our contract hours to 108.  This would mean a 20% paycut.  On top of the loss of productivity pay, it's closer to 30%.  Not sure if I want to sign anything that puts me in a hole. Grateful to have a job I guess. 

[mgriffiths]

4 hours ago, ERpa2014 said:

Not sure if I want to sign anything that puts me in a hole. Grateful to have a job I guess.

While all of this sucks, and there are multiple paths to choose from rolling over and doing whatever your employer wants to digging in your heels and consulting a lawyer...one thing that I absolutely 100% would need to guarantee is an end date for income/benefits to return to normal.  Could that end date change based on the progress of COVID-19?  Of course, but something needs to be in writing as an end date.  I didn't enjoy taking a 10% pay cut with zero PTO earned during this time (making that 10% actually quite a bit more), but it is stated to be through 05/30/2020 (or 4 total pay periods).  By having an end date I am relatively assured that my employer plans to return my income to normal, plus since admin has taken a 20% pay cut (with zero PTO earned) over the same period they have an incentive to change back.

But, I also know FAR too many providers taking pay cuts when admin is not cutting their own income.  It is farcical.

[ERpa2014]

18 minutes ago, mgriffiths said:

But, I also know FAR too many providers taking pay cuts when admin is not cutting their own income.  It is farcical.

I know the physicians have no profit sharing right now and have 40% pay reduction. Our group is small, physician owned at one ER. As for admin, it's a few physicians, no idea if they cut their stipends right now. 

I like the end date idea.  Hopefully there is some leeway to the addendum to do this. 

 

[roundabout]

New grads or no experience job offer posted yesterday.

[einstein2u]

all providers hours cut to 30 hours, benefit still intact.  could be worst.

[ck040]

New grad here. Moved to a highly desirable area after graduation and have not had luck finding a job (had a few awesome leads which were all rescinded d/t covid). Getting pretty low on funds here and I've gotten to the point of really considering minimum wage non-PA jobs for a few months. I've been applying to positions in fields that I would never have considered as a first job, in locations that I would never have considered. I'm thinking that with COVID, my "preferences" will have to be changed... more like obliterated. Any thoughts on taking jobs that might have seemed shady in the past? Ex. Jobs with no benefits but high pay, jobs in fields that may not necessarily help in the long run. Any help would be appreciated!

[Cideous]

2 hours ago, ck040 said:

New grad here. Moved to a highly desirable area after graduation and have not had luck finding a job (had a few awesome leads which were all rescinded d/t covid). Getting pretty low on funds here and I've gotten to the point of really considering minimum wage non-PA jobs for a few months. I've been applying to positions in fields that I would never have considered as a first job, in locations that I would never have considered. I'm thinking that with COVID, my "preferences" will have to be changed... more like obliterated. Any thoughts on taking jobs that might have seemed shady in the past? Ex. Jobs with no benefits but high pay, jobs in fields that may not necessarily help in the long run. Any help would be appreciated!

Welcome to life as a PA in 2020.

My advice as the resident profession skeptic on these boards.

 

Are you young?  Take a job in the middle of no where.

Are you single?  Take a job in the middle of no where.

Are you broke?  Take a job in the middle of no where.

 

You have ONE job right now.  Get experience.  I don't care if you have to move to an island off the coast of Alaska and Russia.  Take it.

Good luck.

[YoungH89]

Agree with above. Take whatever pay you need too as well. I know that sentiment won't bode well on this board but you do what u gotta do. My first pa job was 33/hour. Experience gained was worth much more. I was young and single at the time tho. 

[CookiePA]

I agree with above as well. Take a job, get experience and wait for this crisis to be over. Dont dwell on the pay too much right now, anything with decent benefits and safe working environment with someone to learn from, take it!

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

I did my part to help American healthcare by retiring so someone else could take my job...then they can sit at home and get paid for it by the state.  Oh well...

[CAdamsPAC]

On 4/10/2020 at 3:24 PM, sas5814 said:

I am an hourly employee. My organization has a 5 tier plan and how far the plan goes depends on the duration of the crisis. Initially we eliminated all OT and stopped using agency or PRN staffing. Then clinic hours were shortened. Now we are in the stage where many clinics are closed and services lines are stripped bare and many of us are furoughed.

Because we are subject to recall if numbers climb we have a furlough pay plan (this only applies to people subject to short notice recall) they are rounding out our last working pay period with our PTO. Then they will pay us at 70% of our usual rate for 4 more weeks and we can round those hours up to 100% using PTO if we choose. If you don't have enough PTO in th bank you can advance up to 80 hours. After those 4 weeks we are just furloughed and can apply for unemployment. 

All in all I think they have done and are doing just about everything they can. It has given me a bit of breathing room.

Sounds  like a reasonable situation. BTW how's your wife doing?

 

[sas5814]

13 hours ago, CAdamsPAC said:

Sounds  like a reasonable situation. BTW how's your wife doing?

 

Doing very well thanks for asking. 

She found a new job (after the accident AND getting furloughed from her position), went to her 1st day of orientation and got sent home day 2 because one of the nurses from orientation was COVID positive. Now she is getting 80 hours of free PTO to sit home.

I've been off 2 weeks of what I assume will be a couple of months. Stir crazy doesn't even begin to describe it. There is an open outdoor range nearby so there are sanity breaks.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

24 minutes ago, sas5814 said:

Doing very well thanks for asking. 

She found a new job (after the accident AND getting furloughed from her position), went to her 1st day of orientation and got sent home day 2 because one of the nurses from orientation was COVID positive. Now she is getting 80 hours of free PTO to sit home.

I've been off 2 weeks of what I assume will be a couple of months. Stir crazy doesn't even begin to describe it. There is an open outdoor range nearby so there are sanity breaks.

I'm due to renew my range membership.  I keep hearing a Ruger GP-100 model 1776 calling my name.  I guess that my two LCRs aren't enough.

[Cideous]

24 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

I'm due to renew my range membership.  I keep hearing a Ruger GP-100 model 1776 calling my name.  I guess that my two LCRs aren't enough.

I need to get my Sig 516 carbon out.  She is starting to think I don't love her