CAAdmission Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 How does everyone feel about it? Med schools started the trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo1 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Despicable seems a harsh word to use instead of "against." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 I took students for years and never took payment just because I thought I was giving back to the profession. Had I been offered compensation I'd have accepted. It is work and it has value. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 49 minutes ago, sas5814 said: I took students for years and never took payment just because I thought I was giving back to the profession. Had I been offered compensation I'd have accepted. It is work and it has value. Same and agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 3 hours ago, Apollo1 said: Despicable seems a harsh word to use instead of "against." I'll stand by despicable, especially from a generation of PAs that were taught by volunteer preceptors. I've been with students since the 90s. Payment is seedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 8 minutes ago, CAAdmission said: I'll stand by despicable, especially from a generation of PAs that were taught by volunteer preceptors. I've been with students since the 90s. Payment is seedy. Interesting point you bring up. What I found interesting is the reaction I got from students when they found out I wasn't reimbursed for precepting. Often their attitude would change and they were more respectful and receptive after discovering I wasn't pocketing their tuition dollars. Before they found out, the relationship was a little like a customer paying for a service... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted March 5 Moderator Share Posted March 5 3 hours ago, CAAdmission said: I'll stand by despicable, especially from a generation of PAs that were taught by volunteer preceptors. I've been with students since the 90s. Payment is seedy. sorry disagree. Why work for free? that is what you are doing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 1 minute ago, ventana said: sorry disagree. Why work for free? that is what you are doing.... I'd be seeing patients anyway. What difference does it make to have a student tag along? Contrary to popular belief, if you know what you are doing they don't really slow you down. They can even help keep patients entertained while they are waiting to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 5 Moderator Share Posted March 5 I precept for programs that pay me and programs that don't. 200-300/month isn't going to make a difference in my life either way, so it is a non-issue for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeddyRucpin Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I find it wild that people are not paid for this, especially in 2024. I'd love to see a comparison of our physician colleagues on who gets paid vs not. There may be some other benefits besides straight money: some sort of professor/adjunct title, use of the university gym, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 I lecture for a couple PA schools. They are now in a situation where clinical sites have set up bidding wars. Placements go to whoever has the deepest pockets. Really classy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I know that some preceptors are getting paid, especially in a few required rotational areas where slots are limited. Not surprising; schools need clinical placements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 My job is the limiting factor with students. I get no help from my employer for working with potential new future employees. It does slow me down due to how our clinic is set up and the imposed rules on students by said employer with no grace to complete needed extra work. Employers don’t see the value. They still want production. Money to precept won’t help me. And it’s shady. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Students are paying insane amounts for their education; the schools should pay actual people teaching the students Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I have a problem with the whole clinical rotation thing that goes beyond money. When I was a PA student, our rotations were developed by the program. We didn't just find someone to shadow. We didn't "find our own." The rotations were excellent. They were accustomed to students. The preceptors were docs or senior experienced PAs. They were good learning experiences. Recently, I had a NP student who needed to follow for 40 hours for her FP rotation. These 40 hours were scheduled over the course of one month. Did her program know me? No. Would I be a good preceptor? They didn't know. I was a warm body who checked off her FP rotation. This is crap. Paying someone to be a good preceptor is very much preferable. Make sure these are good experienced teachers. Clinical rotations are an important part of learning, not a feebie afterthought. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 16 minutes ago, LKPAC said: I have a problem with the whole clinical rotation thing that goes beyond money. When I was a PA student, our rotations were developed by the program. We didn't just find someone to shadow. We didn't "find our own." The rotations were excellent. They were accustomed to students. The preceptors were docs or senior experienced PAs. They were good learning experiences. Recently, I had a NP student who needed to follow for 40 hours for her FP rotation. These 40 hours were scheduled over the course of one month. Did her program know me? No. Would I be a good preceptor? They didn't know. I was a warm body who checked off her FP rotation. This is crap. Paying someone to be a good preceptor is very much preferable. Make sure these are good experienced teachers. Clinical rotations are an important part of learning, not a feebie afterthought. PA schools aren't allowed to require students to find their own rotations.. however, there is too many schools now and not enough rotation sites. NP education is an absolute clown show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 3 hours ago, iconic said: there is too many schools now and not enough rotation sites There would be plenty of rotation sites if more PAs would precept. Maybe now that it's a cash grab, the lethargic will become interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted March 7 Moderator Share Posted March 7 On 3/5/2024 at 5:06 PM, CAAdmission said: I'd be seeing patients anyway. What difference does it make to have a student tag along? Contrary to popular belief, if you know what you are doing they don't really slow you down. They can even help keep patients entertained while they are waiting to be seen. I would disagree. student adds 30-60 min a day onto my work day (have been doing it for almost 20 yrs on and off). Then ongoing discussions, emails, reviewing their write ups all take time. I am in pcp medicine and usually by day 3 they are seeing patients alone. If I just had them follow it would not slow me down. then there is the 1 additional write up ask for. And reviewing labs and findings with them……. All takes time for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 7 Moderator Share Posted March 7 students early in their clinical year take extra time. Students about to graduate can usually be assigned minor procedures, which saves me time vs working alone. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 Send the student 2 or 3 patients down the hall, have them take a history. When you catch up, tell them you need the 2 minute version. As they speed up, send them 4 patients down the hall to add on a focused exam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 10 hours ago, EMEDPA said: students early in their clinical year take extra time. Students about to graduate can usually be assigned minor procedures, which saves me time vs working alone. . Agree. I enjoy working with students, not only to give back to the profession and teach but to also keep me on my toes and have someone to work with as they can be a valuable asset. I often ask them to call patients, go over discharge info, perform minor procedures, do orders, etc (all supervised while I'm also completing work items so I can correct things like mistaking Tylenol for Toradol), all while performing other necessary things to learn what they need to learn like exams, consults, rounds, imaging and labs, etc. Plus rounding by myself can suck sometimes so it's nice to have someone else there every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 7 Moderator Share Posted March 7 My facility allows students to write notes, that I then correct and cosign. Huge timesaver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted March 8 Administrator Share Posted March 8 I will be happy to take students for no money, on one condition: Hippocratic oath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) The program that I graduated from now costs (tuition alone) roughly $120,000 per student (I would imagine there are many other schools charging far north of this). Why should the schools pocket the cash, while people precept their students for free. How about the schools wave tuition cost - for those who precept X number of students.... Edited March 8 by ShakaHoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty2PA Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 This is not a good trend. 1) "get what's mine" mentality. Yes tuition is outrageous. The program in my home state has been contemplating paying preceptors for years. When they do, it will come with a huge tuition increase. If your reason is "why should they keep all the tuition", then you're absolutely wrong. Programs pass the buck (marked up 50%) onto students when you demand payment. Programs won't make .01 less because they're now paying you. They're taking the easy way out by spending their student's money. 2) If you're a good preceptor, then having a student is a little more work but also keeps you on your toes. Teaching is learning, memorizing, cementing. You should be better at what you do when you teach it. And, students sometimes come out of school with guidelines perhaps you've missed. Be humble and maybe you'll learn something too. 3) We are all beggars at some point. There is no PA-C who didn't need preceptors. I know these reasons won't stop the tides of change, and now that payments are going out, it's only a matter of time before all programs are forced to adapt to a changing environment. And once a program has jacked tuition to pay preceptors, refusing to accept payments is pointless. No personal attacks here, just lamenting what feels like a money grab. I hate when businesses/admins do it, I hate when anyone else does it too. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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