Negative Press On DOs

[PACali]

“DO” Doctor of Osteopathic has been getting a lot of heat for the last couple of weeks on social media. I think mainly it was because of Trump, so it became politicized. Just do a quick search your will see many negative comments on twitter. I don’t want to make it a political discussion, but one of the comments on Twitter reminds me of our own profession… 

 “... how much of their curriculum is osteopathy compared to allopathy? A tiny fraction. Yet their title implies ALL they do is osteopathy. A total misnomer. That’s a self-inflicted wound if I ever seen one.”  

The PA profession is in the process of a name change. We have to think ahead of our time, cover all the angles, and think all the possibilities. Otherwise, it will be a waster of time and effort.  

 

 

 

[UGoLong]

When I was younger, DOs had a negative connotation but have come to be accepted widely, though I’ve heard a commentator throw them some shade because of Trump’s physician’s comments. I’ve personally known many and I trust them with my life.


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[PACali]

33 minutes ago, UGoLong said:

When I was younger, DOs had a negative connotation but have come to be accepted widely, though I’ve heard a commentator throw them some shade because of Trump’s physician’s comments. I’ve personally known many and I trust them with my life.


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Definitely nothing wrong with the DOs. I have worked with many great DOs. I do think their name osteopathic is confusing for the general public. Most of DOs I know doesn't practice osteopathic medicine.  From a PR perspective, what helps with their image is they can also be called Physician or Doctor. I think this is something we should think about for the name change process. We need to let general public know we practice medicine.

[CAAdmission]

4 hours ago, PACali said:

 Most of DOs I know doesn't practice osteopathic medicine.

Of a sample of about two dozen, I don't know any DOs that practice OMT. One does homeopathy on the side, which scares me a little bit. 

As a profession, they will never fully lose the taint of being second class citizens. 

[deltawave]

4 hours ago, CJAdmission said:

As a profession, they will never fully lose the taint of being second class citizens. 

Eh, I think you whiffed on that one. 

All of the DOs I know are great and many have achieved great accolades and accomplishments in their careers. 

[CAAdmission]

3 hours ago, deltawave said:

All of the DOs I know are great and many have achieved great accolades and accomplishments in their careers. 

I don't think there is any greater or lesser proportion of great DOs than there is of MDs. Whether perception or reality, the general perception is the bulk of people who go to DO school do so because they could not get into an allopathic school. Doesn't mean they are not great docs. 

If you look at SDN (*shudder*) , the advice is always "don't go to a DO school if you want to get into a competitive residency."

[Cideous]

You're right, the Presidents personal doc has not helped their image.  In contrast, he has done epic harm.  Mostly from evasiveness.

[Reality Check 2]

Growing up, we saw DOs all the time - military and civilian.

No issues.

I taught at an Osteopathic PA program.

I trust osteopathic manipulation over chiropractics any day. 

The President's physician caused harm by being manipulated by a celebrity patient.

DOs are still rock solid.

[EMEDPA]

2 minutes ago, Reality Check 2 said:

Growing up, we saw DOs all the time - military and civilian.

No issues.

I taught at an Osteopathic PA program.

I trust osteopathic manipulation over chiropractics any day. 

The President's physician caused harm by being manipulated by a celebrity patient.

DOs are still rock solid.

Agree- Most are older when they start med school and have prior life experience. I work with a doc who was a bartender until he was 30. One of the best docs I know. Double boarded EM/FP. 

[PACali]

23 minutes ago, Reality Check 2 said:

Growing up, we saw DOs all the time - military and civilian.

No issues.

I taught at an Osteopathic PA program.

I trust osteopathic manipulation over chiropractics any day. 

The President's physician caused harm by being manipulated by a celebrity patient.

DOs are still rock solid.

This is definitely not MD vs DO thread. DOs are great. 

My point is their name Osteopathic hinders their public image. Their founder from 1874 never thought they would be doing brain surgery today. Something we should think about in the PA name change discussion. 

[rev ronin]

My best SP has been a DO, FWIW.

[TexasPA28]

Let's get real about DOs.

Sure they can be fine doctors.

But I'd estimate conservatively that only 5% of them chose the DO route on purpose.  95% of them were forced to choose DO because they didn't have the grades or MCAT scores to get accepted to an MD program. 

That's just reality.

 

[deltawave]

1 hour ago, TexasPA28 said:

Let's get real about DOs.

Sure they can be fine doctors.

But I'd estimate conservatively that only 5% of them chose the DO route on purpose.  95% of them were forced to choose DO because they didn't have the grades or MCAT scores to get accepted to an MD program. 

That's just reality.

 

Man, you have a broad brush- You get that at Home Depot? 

[TheFatMan]

I think it's unfortunate that I've seen ads where they essentially claim you have to a see a DO if you want "holistic care," much in the same way NPs like to represent themselves.

 

That said, they are one of the few professions that started out practicing a lot of woo and have transitioned to more EBM for the most part. 

A nice write-up about it: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/osteopathic-medicine-what-is-it/

 

[mjl1717]

So  Trumps  personal  physician  is  a  DO !

Just  hope  he  can  use some "neutral objectivity"?   Even Dr. Fauci alludes to this to this type of thought.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

11 hours ago, TexasPA28 said:

Let's get real about DOs.

Sure they can be fine doctors.

But I'd estimate conservatively that only 5% of them chose the DO route on purpose.  95% of them were forced to choose DO because they didn't have the grades or MCAT scores to get accepted to an MD program. 

That's just reality.

 

First, I don’t think it’s true for that many of them. There are lots of reasons such as closer to home, you were interested in OMT, you liked the school/faculty better.

But your point is valid, they have statistically lower scores on average than MD. However, since I think we all agree they can be as good as MDs, anecdotally I’ve thought them often better, this illustrates that memorizing minutiae that never comes up in clinical practice is irrelevant to being a good clinician.

another good argument why a residency trained or well experienced PA or NP is likely just as good.

[CAAdmission]

The thing that really steams me about DOs is that they were truly second class citizens for a long time and were treated like crap for decades.  They fought long and hard to gain parity with allopathic physicians. 

Now that they are at the "top of the heap," their professional organizations seem to have a pretty low threshold for treating PAs like crap. It smacks of hypocrisy to me. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by CJAdmission

[rev ronin]

8 hours ago, TheFatMan said:

That said, they are one of the few professions that started out practicing a lot of woo and have transitioned to more EBM for the most part. 

A nice write-up about it: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/osteopathic-medicine-what-is-it/

In all fairness, EBM is recent, and EVERYONE practiced woo when the DOs came on the scene.

[PACali]

Kind of late, but found this from a facebook PA group. Apparently, Figs had a picture of a female DO reading Medicine for Dummy. Most of medical people online had negative thought about it and talking about boycotting Figs. This video is basically about we are all here to help people, doesn't matter the letter behind our name, which I am 100% agree. 

But I wish the medical community would also do the same whenever a PA is being discriminated in the press. 

[CAAdmission]

To all the people troubled by videos like this:

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

15 hours ago, PACali said:

Kind of late, but found this from a facebook PA group. Apparently, Figs had a picture of a female DO reading Medicine for Dummy. Most of medical people online had negative thought about it and talking about boycotting Figs. This video is basically about we are all here to help people, doesn't matter the letter behind our name, which I am 100% agree. 

But I wish the medical community would also do the same whenever a PA is being discriminated in the press. 

I appreciated Zdoggmd’s video that said basically that. Called out DOs getting upset over this, while doing the same crapping on NPs and PA.

[dfw6er]

On 10/9/2020 at 3:35 PM, CJAadmission said:

I don't think there is any greater or lesser proportion of great DOs than there is of MDs. Whether perception or reality, the general perception is the bulk of people who go to DO school do so because they could not get into an allopathic school. Doesn't mean they are not great docs. 

If you look at SDN (*shudder*) , the advice is always "don't go to a DO school if you want to get into a competitive residency."

This is true.  There is a stigma.  Allopathic students do feel superior to osteopathic students....and part of that is due to the fact that it IS harder to get into MD school than DO school.  No doubt about it.  MCAT and GPA requirements are consistently less for DO programs.  Then there's the whole USMLE vs. COMLEX issue.  DO schools need to mandate taking USMLE steps 1 and 2 so all students can be equally stratified.  

A step in the right direction was the dissolution of separate graduate medical education programs in 2020...now all residencies are accredited by a single body, the AGME.  But many of the programs that were formerly DO programs still allow osteopathic applicants to apply with COMLEX scores and allow allopathic students to apply with USMLE scores.   It's just not equal.  The COMLEX is an easier test with less precision and a wider confidence interval on scores than the USMLE.  I scored in the 98% on my COMLEX Level 2 and 85% on my USMLE step 2.  It's apples to oranges.  

With the 2020 combined match, DO match rates were around 90% while MD match rates were like 94%...so there is still a mild disadvantage to matching as a DO. 

The problem is the old guard DOs in charge of the DO schools, COCA, and NBOME...they won't go quietly into the night...they're going to fight tooth and nail until the end to preserve the DO distinctiveness.  

Edited November 2, 2020 by dfw6er

[CAAdmission]

41 minutes ago, dfw6er said:

Allopathic students do feel superior to osteopathic students....

In my experience, they feel superior to pretty much everyone on earth (and probably a few people in heaven, too.)

[rev ronin]

9 hours ago, CJAadmission said:

In my experience, they feel superior to pretty much everyone on earth (and probably a few people in heaven, too.)

Q: What's the difference between God and a doctor?
A: God doesn't wake up in the morning to play doctor.

Q: How many med students does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: One.  He grasps the bulb and the universe revolves around him.

[CAdamsPAC]

I have worked with DO's for many years in and out of uniform in various specialties.  It's been my observation that there are excellent physicians produced by both Osteopathic and Allopathic medical schools along with not so good physicians. These blanket comments support my own view that "one size fits all" doesn't fit! I'm not onboard with stroking physicians ego because of where they went to medical school.