AAPA and Racism

[Guest Paula]

Does anyone have any concerns about the AAPA statement of supporting the Black community and combating racism?  I get it that as health care providers we are to treat everyone equally.  I believe I do.  I logged on to the Huddle yesterday and saw the posts, was going to respond to one of them and contact that person directly.  Unfortunately that person has either been blocked or banned or voluntarily left the Huddle.  I am saddened by that.  

I think my problem with all of this is that the AAPA is getting involved in politically charged matters and that is not their place unless all areas of inequality are addressed, not just racism.  

This means AAPA needs to address the inequality of abortion - the taking of human life that has had the opportunity for life snuffed out.  To me, this is the most egregious inequality and injustice of health care and supersedes racism.  IMHO.

 

 

 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Whoa boy, my mod sense is tingling! Let’s keep it civil folks.

 

[Jaw67PA]

This post is giving me major "all lives matter" vibes lol. 

Racism in healthcare and society in general is a huge problem and is the topic at hand right now. Your "whataboutism" seems disingenuous because you only bring up other issues (abortion) in response to another issue that clearly makes you uncomfortable. Also, why is it not the AAPA's place to get involved in the fight against racism, especially in healthcare? Their job is to advocate on behalf on the profession and the patients the profession serves. Black people, whether they be PAs or patients, are included in that and deal with racism on a daily basis. 

Also, comparing abortion to racism is somewhat egregious, IMHO. Although I don't personally agree with abortion and we may even share similar views on it, that comparison is absolutely terrible.

[ohiovolffemtp]

I feel like I'm taking a significant risk by posting, but here are my concerns:

Racism is a serious problem and the black community continues to suffer significantly from it.  There has been significant but insufficient progress in the years I can remember (going back to the 1960's).  Much more work needs to be done.

There are many other communities, each with many similar and some unique needs, that suffer similarly.  In the areas I live and work I've had the most experience with the Appalachian and hispanic communities.  I'm sure there's more: native Americans, recent immigrants, etc.  The common theme I see is poverty.  That seems to be the major contributor to problems with health, education, crime, etc.  I hope that all of these suffering communities are included in whatever steps  are taken to improve things.

Also, while there's a lot of focus right now on wrongdoing by some police officers, I believe there is a need for effective policing.  These disadvantaged communities are often where crime is the worst.   In the protests and dialog about this problem, we need to come to a solution where these disadvantaged communities feel respected and that they are treated fairly.  We also need to have the police feel that they are respected and treated fairly.

So far, I've actually been pleased that in many communities the protestors and police are actually treating each other pretty respectfully and starting candid conversations where both sides feel heard.

[DiggySRNA]

To equate medical induced abortion (an elective process) to racism and police brutality against people of color is irresponsible.

"...any concerns about the AAPA statement of supporting the Black community and combating racism?"

This is like me, as a RN, stating that COVID-19 is a hoax even when I see it happening first hand. 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Diggy

[gleannfia]

To equate medical induced abortion (an elective process) to racism and police brutality against people of color is irresponsible.

Thank you.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[MediMike]

2 hours ago, Paula said:

Does anyone have any concerns about the AAPA statement of supporting the Black community and combating racism?  I get it that as health care providers we are to treat everyone equally.  I believe I do.  I logged on to the Huddle yesterday and saw the posts, was going to respond to one of them and contact that person directly.  Unfortunately that person has either been blocked or banned or voluntarily left the Huddle.  I am saddened by that.  

I think my problem with all of this is that the AAPA is getting involved in politically charged matters and that is not their place unless all areas of inequality are addressed, not just racism.  

This means AAPA needs to address the inequality of abortion - the taking of human life that has had the opportunity for life snuffed out.  To me, this is the most egregious inequality and injustice of health care and supersedes racism.  IMHO.

 

 

 

Let me begin with explaining my downvote of your post.  I found your stance on this topic to be so incredibly ignorant in regards to healthcare that it could be construed as either trolling, or an honest attempt at disinformation.

Unless you went to PA school in the 1960s you are likely aware that people of color have worse outcomes. They have less access to initial care, follow up care, pain medications, preventative care per national guidelines, higher mortality rates for the same conditions...and the list goes on. 

There is a disproportionate amount of trauma (emotional and physical) experienced by the POC demographic.  Trauma is something we treat, either in the ED, the OR, or in the psychiatry office.

I'm not even going to start a discussion on your completely inappropriate comparison between abortion and the endemic/systemic/institutional racism experienced by people of color, but your proposal that an organization must address every problem or no problem is a hollow attempt at pushing your agenda.

[Mayamom]

My tongue is bleeding.

[JoeM]

2 hours ago, Diggy said:

To equate medical induced abortion (an elective process) to racism and police brutality against people of color is irresponsible.

Glad someone said this

[CAdamsPAC]

I read the AAPA statement on a Facebook post and asked  " why does this remind me of a self-criticism session during Mao's Cultural Revolution?" Prostrating oneself in public and decrying sins you may not have performed is now the purity test here in America. I proposed to state unequivocally that I do not support or condone murder, rape, thievery.

[CAdamsPAC]

6 hours ago, Jaw67PA said:

This post is giving me major "all lives matter" vibes lol. 

Racism in healthcare and society in general is a huge problem and is the topic at hand right now. Your "whataboutism" seems disingenuous because you only bring up other issues (abortion) in response to another issue that clearly makes you uncomfortable. Also, why is it not the AAPA's place to get involved in the fight against racism, especially in healthcare? Their job is to advocate on behalf on the profession and the patients the profession serves. Black people, whether they be PAs or patients, are included in that and deal with racism on a daily basis. 

Also, comparing abortion to racism is somewhat egregious, IMHO. Although I don't personally agree with abortion and we may even share similar views on it, that comparison is absolutely terrible.

How many Planned Parenthood like entities are located in suburban upper middle-class areas? What is the proportional rate of VIPs in non-White communities versus White communities? Correct me if wrong, but wasn't PP founded by an eugenicist?

[gleannfia]

Well, I guess black women do not have critical thinking skills and cannot make their own decisions!

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[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Let’s not debate abortion, a topic I doubt we’ll come to a consensus on, and I would hope we aren’t going to debate racism.

the topic, as a reminder, is whether AAPA should get involved.

Edit to add:

My answer: yes.

while it seems silly that one should have to condemn racism, apparently it’s needed. POC obviously are still dealing with multiple issues that a civilized society should have long moved passed.

Does this mean every issue requires a statement? No. Some topics are more debated than others and Americans are still processing do they draw morality from religion or from data driven sources, not that either one is wrong or a amoral. It may never be decided or may fluctuate. It’s easy when these two sources agree, like on racism.

 

[gleannfia]

On abortion, we will never agree on this. But let's please agree that white male privilege exists. But, as a white female, I know I have privilege as well.

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[gleannfia]

Let’s not debate abortion, a topic I doubt we’ll come to a consensus on, and I would hope we aren’t going to debate racism.
the topic, as a reminder, is whether AAPA should get involved.
 
 

I hope you are not debating whether racism is an issue.

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[LT_Oneal_PAC]

2 minutes ago, gleannfia said:

I hope you are not debating whether racism is an issue.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 

That’s exactly what I said. It’s so obvious we aren’t debating it.

[Aunt Val]

I read the statement and wondered about it too.  I don't want to take a side at this point and say whether or not I think the AAPA statement was/is appropriate in our current political and societal climate.  Maybe that doesn't matter anyway, since it's already been done.  My question is, is the statement helpful in a practical way?  And how so (or not)?  What is its purpose, other than to condemn racism in a blanket fashion?  Of course racism in any form is bad and wrong.  I think we all believe that.  But will this written statement change anything?  How?  What should the AAPA be trying to change, and how can it be successful?  Any thoughts?

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

6 minutes ago, Aunt Val said:

I read the statement and wondered about it too.  I don't want to take a side at this point and say whether or not I think the AAPA statement was/is appropriate in our current political and societal climate.  Maybe that doesn't matter anyway, since it's already been done.  My question is, is the statement helpful in a practical way?  And how so (or not)?  What is its purpose, other than to condemn racism in a blanket fashion?  Of course racism in any form is bad and wrong.  I think we all believe that.  But will this written statement change anything?  How?  What should the AAPA be trying to change, and how can it be successful?  Any thoughts?

My initial impression on the statements organizations came out with were just lip service. I wanted an action plan. A request. What exactly do you want from me, in particular, who has little to no power.

However, I now think that global outcry and public support is empowering those with the ability to make change to actually do it. We are already seeing change in policies in the military by banning confederate flags, banning of choke holds in the police department, legislation being proposed, and shining a light on those who we can tell are racist but don’t speak their quiet truths.

if nothing else, perhaps it will provide hope and a sense of being heard to those who need it.

 

[sas5814]

I have avoided this topic like the political hand grenade with the pin pulled that it is. It isn't that the subject isn't worthy of discussion and action, it is my problem with "cause" posts. When a cause becomes the cause celeb you either line up and agree or you get beat about the head and shoulders. Online discussions are even more prone to devolution.

The AAPA is an advocacy organization for PAs. They didn't make a statement and one was demanded. Then they made a statement and the demanders raised hell because it wasn't enough. When someone suggested the demanders write a statement for the AAPA to consider, one they felt was adequate, that poster was pilloried and a series of posts were deleted. Then the AAPA coughed up a statement the demanders found adequate. It was a very uncomfortable few days on the Huddle.

I give the AAPA dues to advocate for the profession. If they were in favor of racism I would be very concerned but I assume  they are not, and in their original statement they called for dignity and respect for all people. Not enough. Now they are deep into a divisive issue and, regardless of the "rightness" of the position, time and money and resources have been devoted to a statement that ultimately changes nothing AND like it or not it will cost them membership just because this is such a polarizing issue. So their effectiveness has been lessened but they are on the right side of history. Whether or not that is the way to go for an advocacy group will be another divisive discussion.

OP, somewhat imperfectly, tried to ask a question about the AAPA taking positions on polarizing issues. The question got lost in the imperfect form of the question.

Nobody has a simple answer to racism. It is too complex and emotional. It can't be fixed by force or by forcing organizations to make statements. If they have to be forced, coerced, or browbeat the statement and position is suspect.

One of my favorite old sayings goes something like...  if you want to eliminate ignorance...read. If you want to eliminate fear...travel.

Just be kind.

 

[CAdamsPAC]

3 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

My initial impression on the statements organizations came out with were just lip service. I wanted an action plan. A request. What exactly do you want from me, in particular, who has little to no power.

However, I now think that global outcry and public support is empowering those with the ability to make change to actually do it. We are already seeing change in policies in the military by banning confederate flags, banning of choke holds in the police department, legislation being proposed, and shining a light on those who we can tell are racist but don’t speak their quiet truths.

if nothing else, perhaps it will provide hope and a sense of being heard to those who need it.

 

I've lived with racism my entire life. During my 67 years on earth I've witnessed lawful racist behavior be banned, social pressure applied to discourage "Blackballing" in social organizations the racially detrimental policies in the military be banned. What hasn't nor will disappear is those with bigotry in their hearts and minds. I am confronted with the bigotry of paternalism towards non-Whites, the acceptance of poor quality schools in minority areas, lowered expectations in school for student behavior or scholastic achievement, lack of outrage to the daily carnage of murder in the inner cities of this country. As a PA I've experienced you here because of Affirmative Action comments from attendings because in the minds of many, non-Whites only succeed by the largesse of the White Liberal establishment. I am ALWAYS suspicious of those who feel compelled to tell me or publicly proclaim how they lack prejudice or bigotry!

[Cideous]

13 minutes ago, sas5814 said:

I have avoided this topic like the political hand grenade with the pin pulled that it is. It isn't that the subject isn't worthy of discussion and action, it is my problem with "cause" posts. When a cause becomes the cause celeb you either line up and agree or you get beat about the head and shoulders. Online discussions are even more prone to devolution.

The AAPA is an advocacy organization for PAs. They didn't make a statement and one was demanded. Then they made a statement and the demanders raised hell because it wasn't enough. When someone suggested the demanders write a statement for the AAPA to consider, one they felt was adequate, that poster was pilloried and a series of posts were deleted. Then the AAPA coughed up a statement the demanders found adequate. It was a very uncomfortable few days on the Huddle.

I give the AAPA dues to advocate for the profession. If they were in favor of racism I would be very concerned but I assume  they are not, and in their original statement they called for dignity and respect for all people. Not enough. Now they are deep into a divisive issue and, regardless of the "rightness" of the position, time and money and resources have been devoted to a statement that ultimately changes nothing AND like it or not it will cost them membership just because this is such a polarizing issue. So their effectiveness has been lessened but they are on the right side of history. Whether or not that is the way to go for an advocacy group will be another divisive discussion.

OP, somewhat imperfectly, tried to ask a question about the AAPA taking positions on polarizing issues. The question got lost in the imperfect form of the question.

Nobody has a simple answer to racism. It is too complex and emotional. It can't be fixed by force or by forcing organizations to make statements. If they have to be forced, coerced, or browbeat the statement and position is suspect.

One of my favorite old sayings goes something like...  if you want to eliminate ignorance...read. If you want to eliminate fear...travel.

Just be kind.

 

As the resident bomb thrower on these boards I have intentionally avoided posting on this thread until Scott did....what took you so long!?  

Having said that....I agree with everything he said and the way he said it.  I'll leave it at that.

[Guest Paula]

Scott pointed out my question was imperfect.  So be it.  It could have been better .  But I still stand by what I asked and the second paragraph is the crux of the question, with the following paragraph as an example of inequality and injustice that they could take on too.  

That of course will never happen. 

 

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

I would think that AAPA would already have enough matters on their plate, the same one that they've dropped on the floor numerous times.

[lemurcatta]

On 6/6/2020 at 11:44 AM, Paula said:

Does anyone have any concerns about the AAPA statement of supporting the Black community and combating racism?  I get it that as health care providers we are to treat everyone equally.  I believe I do.  I logged on to the Huddle yesterday and saw the posts, was going to respond to one of them and contact that person directly.  Unfortunately that person has either been blocked or banned or voluntarily left the Huddle.  I am saddened by that.  

I think my problem with all of this is that the AAPA is getting involved in politically charged matters and that is not their place unless all areas of inequality are addressed, not just racism.  

This means AAPA needs to address the inequality of abortion - the taking of human life that has had the opportunity for life snuffed out.  To me, this is the most egregious inequality and injustice of health care and supersedes racism.  IMHO.

 

 

 

I cannot tell you how profoundly I disagree.

Social determinants of health, racism, bias, all of this plays an important role in the health of our patients and is directly applicable to what we do and what we should stand for. There would have been a deafening silence if AAPA had not issued a statement given the overwhelming response of all other medical organizations. 
 

Also, I live in a city where one third of residents are black. My PA class graduated zero black students. We can do better. It’s the role of the AAPA to advocate for advancing our profession and making our ranks representative of our patients is part of that. It isn’t all about OTP.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by lemurcatta

[CAdamsPAC]

2 hours ago, lemurcatta said:

I cannot tell you how profoundly I disagree.

Social determinants of health, racism, bias, all of this plays an important role in the health of our patients and is directly applicable to what we do and what we should stand for. There would have been a deafening silence if AAPA had not issued a statement given the overwhelming response of all other medical organizations. 
 

Also, I live in a city where one third of residents are black. My PA class graduated zero black students. We can do better. It’s the role of the AAPA to advocate for advancing our profession and making our ranks representative of our patients is part of that. It isn’t all about OTP.

 

 

Where is the outrage and indignation that so many inner-city schools produce such poorly educated students they are not viable candidates for admission to a university and PA School? If people want to focus on how and why there are such disparities between the races, let's start there! AAPA and we must address the soft racism of poor educational opportunities for "People of Color demanding quality education for all the children of this country starting with school choice and quality educators and better use school funding. Blanket knee jerk statements of " I'm not like that " won't bring about substantive change..