NYCPAC Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 What have you done or would like to do for some extra cash that maybe doesn’t come with the stress of clinical work (or maybe it’s clinical but is somewhat mindless as a PA? Starting to feel the burnout a little and looking for some opportunities that might supplement my income without burning myself further Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAinPenna Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Get your X waiver and do some extra hours at a medication assisted treatment clinic . It’s not hard work, the patients are grateful and not entitled, there is very little documentation required on your notes , and you’d be prescribing 2-3 meds tops 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted October 12, 2019 Administrator Share Posted October 12, 2019 Teach EMT class. Pull shifts as a volunteer fire officer. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) I suggest signing up for Sermo and similar programs to fill out surveys and participate in research geared towards medical providers. It's certainly not a second job, but it gets me another $500-1000 of spending money per year with little time invested. Edited October 12, 2019 by cinntsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 4 hours ago, NYCPAC said: What have you done or would like to do for some extra cash that maybe doesn’t come with the stress of clinical work (or maybe it’s clinical but is somewhat mindless as a PA? Starting to feel the burnout a little and looking for some opportunities that might supplement my income without burning myself further If I'm looking for "extra cash" then I work another shift. I've found nothing that I can do that pays as well as medicine. One extra shift and I've made the $1K that Cinntsp earned doing surveys. But I do real estate for wealth-building. I took income from medicine and bought/renovated several properties who now make me a couple thousand a month, plus I am diversified in my wealth (actually, I'm probably too heavy into real estate as we also own these properties and our home outright). We are also now getting into agriculture for further diversification and wealth building. Maybe a paradigm shift for you...instead of looking for "extra cash", maybe do a side gig for wealth? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 I was a spoke person for several pharmaceutical companies. It was good and easy money, but I quit when I was told what I had to say by one. In the beginning, I could create my own talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, jmj11 said: It was good and easy money, Define "good and easy money" please? How much, and how many hours did it take for you to prepare, travel to, engage in, and then give the speeches?? I've looked at teaching a few times, but when doing the math I think I can make more per hour as an assistant manager at McDonalds! (I'm pretty sure I could land that job) Edited October 12, 2019 by Boatswain2PA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCPAC Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 If I'm looking for "extra cash" then I work another shift. I've found nothing that I can do that pays as well as medicine. One extra shift and I've made the $1K that Cinntsp earned doing surveys. But I do real estate for wealth-building. I took income from medicine and bought/renovated several properties who now make me a couple thousand a month, plus I am diversified in my wealth (actually, I'm probably too heavy into real estate as we also own these properties and our home outright). We are also now getting into agriculture for further diversification and wealth building. Maybe a paradigm shift for you...instead of looking for "extra cash", maybe do a side gig for wealth?I’d love to do this. Whenever I pick up OT shifts I feel the burnout even more. After taxes I take home about $800 for an OT shift (they tax them as discretionary bonuses at 41% which is insane) but because I still have six figure student loan debt I am throwing all that money at my loans. So I feel like i worked and reap little from it. But I suppose every little bit helps toward them Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, NYCPAC said: After taxes I take home about $800 for an OT shift (they tax them as discretionary bonuses at 41% which is insane) but because I still have six figure student loan debt I am throwing all that money at my loans. Few insights, take them or leave them as you will. 1. Your screen name infers you are working in NYC - notorious for poor pay and unbelievable cost of living. Add in "six-figure student loan debt" and you will likely be financially insecure for years or decades. Move. Yes, you can. Yes, I know you love NYC, but it's (probably) killing your financial future living and working there. You can probably make 30% more, in an area that costs HALF as much, and therefore pay off $50-$70K/year in student loans. Hell, if you love NYC so much, move back in 3 years when you have the student loans paid off and a little money in the bank. Suddenly you've doubled your standard of living by not having student loans. 2. They don't "tax" your OT as discretionary bonuses, they "withhold" your OT as bonuses. You will get this back at tax time. If you routinely pull an OT shift or two a month then you can adjust your withholding so Uncle Sam withholds a little less to balance out the 41% they keep from your OT. 3. I understand burnout, and I also understand the psychology of working toward goals. Do you have written goals about when you can be free of student loan debt? When you can be totally debt free? Other financial goals? It helps with burnout if you know that today's shift is $xxx.xx toward your goal which you expect to be reached by ##/##/20yyy. 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 11 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said: Define "good and easy money" please? How much, and how many hours did it take for you to prepare, travel to, engage in, and then give the speeches?? I've looked at teaching a few times, but when doing the math I think I can make more per hour as an assistant manager at McDonalds! (I'm pretty sure I could land that job) Depending on the venue, it was from $500- $3000 per hour of talk. Once I spent a couple of hours on a talk, I could give it 10 times or more without much prep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 15 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said: Few insights, take them or leave them as you will. 1. Your screen name infers you are working in NYC - notorious for poor pay and unbelievable cost of living. Add in "six-figure student loan debt" and you will likely be financially insecure for years or decades. Move. Yes, you can. Yes, I know you love NYC, but it's (probably) killing your financial future living and working there. You can probably make 30% more, in an area that costs HALF as much, and therefore pay off $50-$70K/year in student loans. Hell, if you love NYC so much, move back in 3 years when you have the student loans paid off and a little money in the bank. Suddenly you've doubled your standard of living by not having student loans. 2. They don't "tax" your OT as discretionary bonuses, they "withhold" your OT as bonuses. You will get this back at tax time. If you routinely pull an OT shift or two a month then you can adjust your withholding so Uncle Sam withholds a little less to balance out the 41% they keep from your OT. 3. I understand burnout, and I also understand the psychology of working toward goals. Do you have written goals about when you can be free of student loan debt? When you can be totally debt free? Other financial goals? It helps with burnout if you know that today's shift is $xxx.xx toward your goal which you expect to be reached by ##/##/20yyy. ^^^ Good advice and probably the best you will get. If you are in a super high cost of living area like NYC....move. You will arguably make more, and will no doubt save a ton in living expenses. Set a goal, say 5 years. Go hard for 5 years in a low cost of living area and burn that school debt down. After that, you would be shocked at how much more peace of mind comes with becoming debt free, or mostly debt free. It opens up doors you never thought possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 4 hours ago, jmj11 said: Depending on the venue, it was from $500- $3000 per hour of talk. Once I spent a couple of hours on a talk, I could give it 10 times or more without much prep. Nice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspeed Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 23 hours ago, NYCPAC said: I’d love to do this. Whenever I pick up OT shifts I feel the burnout even more. After taxes I take home about $800 for an OT shift (they tax them as discretionary bonuses at 41% which is insane) but because I still have six figure student loan debt I am throwing all that money at my loans. So I feel like i worked and reap little from it. But I suppose every little bit helps toward them Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I know that feeling from back when I was an RN. My income bracket was lower so I actually took home more than I would at a higher income. I literally know nurses who have their wages calculated out so they don’t go over into the next bracket. Make $0.01 over, and you paid like $10,000 more than if you came $0.01 under. $800, when you are beat down and paying off $100,000 in loans doesn’t seem like much. I’m with you on that. Good alternative is to get a job that pays $15,000 more and make short work of things. Cut $15,000 in expenses, and you have an immediate 1/3 pay down on your $100,000 loan debt. I feel like we live a charmed life when we can look at a job, where we bring home $800 for an extra shift....(that allows us to work 11 days, and make enough to pay off $10% of a $100,000 student loan), and see that as a pain the in the butt to work that hard. Truly this is America. Your best side gig is your bread and butter, just like the Boatswain said. If I’m a cobbler, I go out and make more shoes to make more money. I’m a provider, and that’s what I went to school to do. That’s my easiest option. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Lightspeed said: My income bracket was lower so I actually took home more than I would at a higher income. I literally know nurses who have their wages calculated out so they don’t go over into the next bracket. Make $0.01 over, and you paid like $10,000 more than if you came $0.01 under. This is totally inaccurate. Your tax bill won't go up exorbitantly if you make just over the bracket threshhold. You lack the most basic, basic,income tax knowledge Whether you make $150,000/year, or $1,500,000/year, the amount of tax that you pay on that first $150K is the same. We'll use the numbers for unmarried, but the same concept applies for married or head of household (just with different brackets) For 2019, you will pay 10% income tax on the first $9700 you earn. That's $970 in taxes Then you will pay 12% on what you earn between $9700-$39,500. That's $3576, plus $970 for the previous bracket. So if you make $39,500, you will pay $4546 in federal income tax Then you pay 22% on what you earn between $39,500 -$84,200. That's $9834, plus $4546 for money you earned in the previous two brackets. So if you make $84,200 you will pay $14,380 in federal income tax. But let's say your nurse friend makes $86,000....that's only $1800 into the next bracket (which is 24%). Does she suddenly pay thousands more in taxes? No, she pays 24% of the $1800 (plus the $14,380 for income in the previous three brackets). So, at no time does someone make a few extra bucks with W-2 employment and suddenly have to pay an enormous income tax bill. Caveat - With our complicated tax laws there are times when you can make too much to claim a deduction and therefore have to pay more, but that's not what you inferred. For example - I make too much to be able to expense out real estate losses. However I can carry these losses into the future to make up for future losses. Better yet, there is no limit to how long I can carry them forward, so I can bring these losses with me into retirement when my income comes down, then I can expense them entirely and pay no taxes. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspeed Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Boatswain2PA said: Caveat - With our complicated tax laws there are times when you can make too much to claim a deduction and therefore have to pay more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I accidentally used the wrong word (deduction), and yet you still used it to double down on your ignorance. As I said before, you can sometimes make too much to deduct real-estate losses (specifically passive-income losses), but these can be carried forward indefinitely until they either cancel out future gains or your income comes down, and then you can deduct them. Without checking, I believe the MAGI has to be less than $135K to be able to deduct passive-income losses. So if someone chooses to make $134K instead of $136K in one year simply so they can deduct passive-income losses this year instead of in retirement they are pretty short-sighted in their tax planning. However, in reality, this is impossible to plan for. People with such passive-income losses, such as myself, have such incredibly complicated taxes that it is impossible to forecast what your MAGI will be without having ALL of the documentation in hand...which doesn't happen until after the closure of the tax year. The other ways that someone can "make too much" and pay more in taxes is if they fall-out of "tax credit" windows. Like the Child Tax Credit, which gives $2K/child. But your supposed nursing friend (if married) would have to make over $400,000 and have five kids to lose out on the $10K in tax benefit that you described in your ridiculous comment above. The other big tax-credit program is the Earned Income Tax Credit which gives low-moderate income people significant tax benefits. But it has a gradual phase-in, and a gradual phase-out with one's MAGI, so at no point EVER does one suddenly get a huge tax bill because they made $.01 too much. You stepped in the Bull Excrement, then you tried wiping it off with your finger. You wanna keep going and try to see what it tastes like? Or you wanna just admit you stepped in BS and stop spreading it around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspeed Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Here I was responding on the fly wondering after the fact why you were so upset. I’ve never seen someone get more excited about me accidentally adding a zero to a number, but here we are. I could fix that by editing, but you can have your little victory. I see you even recycled some things I said last time I caught you in “the BS you stepped in” yourself. Shows me you read it and took note back when you were trying to say that in your shop, the RNs refused to fulfill orders for a provider the didn’t trust... and I pointed out at the time that’s just like what was happening to the OP who was complaining about nurses not doing what he was telling them to do. No, it used to be that under the old tax brackets, you’d see a jump from the 15% to the 25% around the $75,000 mark. For some folks, it seemed like a disincentive to work that overtime, but it really didn’t change the fact that you were still ahead of the game overall by working the overtime, even if taxed at the higher rate. $15,000 in overtime that is taxed at a higher rate, indeed, wouldn’t cost you $10,000 more in taxes, but over $1,500 more. I never spent much time chasing overtime due to its effect on my lifestyle, but if someone does, you might get taxed higher, but you still have the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsumner Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 On 10/11/2019 at 7:00 PM, NYCPAC said: What have you done or would like to do for some extra cash that maybe doesn’t come with the stress of clinical work (or maybe it’s clinical but is somewhat mindless as a PA? Starting to feel the burnout a little and looking for some opportunities that might supplement my income without burning myself further Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Doyou ever consider non-medical ideas for a side hustle? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 16 hours ago, rsumner said: Doyou ever consider non-medical ideas for a side hustle? That is literally what OP's question is about...I suspect troll, but couldn't resist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) On 10/13/2019 at 12:13 PM, Lightspeed said: Here I was responding on the fly wondering after the fact why you were so upset. I’ve never seen someone get more excited about me accidentally adding a zero to a number, but here we are Well, it appears your ability to diagnose psychological conditions is equal to your ability to give financial/tax advice. Do you by chance work at the state psychiatric hospital in my state? That would explain why nobody I send there ever seems to get better. On 10/13/2019 at 12:13 PM, Lightspeed said: For some folks, it seemed like a disincentive to work that overtime, but it really didn’t change the fact that you were still ahead of the game overall by working the overtime, even if taxed at the higher rate. $15,000 in overtime that is taxed at a higher rate, indeed, wouldn’t cost you $10,000 more in taxes, but over $1,500 more. I take that as a correction. Note it has nothing to do with the "paying $10,000 in taxes for earning $0.01 over" that you originally stated, but at least it appears you are trying to backtrack instead of spreading more BS around for people to listen to. Edited October 15, 2019 by Boatswain2PA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralER/Ortho Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Lightspeed said: Question for you: So in your state, you somehow manage to send patients directly to the state hospital, instead of an intermediary facility? You guys must have a bunch of beds at state that are ready to go, bra. Most ER's don't want to keep someone around while they work their way through the waiting list. You don't send folks directly to the state hospital from your "rural ER", do you ‘Swain? We need to work on getting you to be more quick on your feet. Not sure why I'm responding as I have no skin in this thread and I'm just stepping in a pile that I have no need to be in.... But.... We do send patients to the state hospital from my rural ER. They have a medical screen, Tele psyche screen, then board in the ER for an eternity (if lucky we can admit....but....) until a bed opens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspeed Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, RuralER/Ortho said: Not sure why I'm responding as I have no skin in this thread and I'm just stepping in a pile that I have no need to be in.... But.... We do send patients to the state hospital from my rural ER. They have a medical screen, Tele psyche screen, then board in the ER for an eternity (if lucky we can admit....but....) until a bed opens. No worries. In most places, that’s exceedingly rare, simply because of lack of beds. But I’ve seen it happen as well with severe cases... the kind of cases where ‘swain shouldn’t be complaining about the “patients not getting better”. Of course they wouldn’t tend to be getting better... they would be the extreme high acuity of the sort that would allow them to jump to the head of the line. He was fumbling to get some kind of dig in by suggesting I’m a poor medical provider I guess, but it fell flat. To be honest, I have no idea how he expects that to be a burn. When you are dealing with the sickest of the sick that get sent through the system in quick fashion, they will tend to be the ones that are most difficult to fix. So he’s either ignorant of what those patients are up against, or else he really doesn’t send many people directly to his state hospital. Most of the time, ERs find it more reasonable to admit patients to an inpatient medical unit hospital bed, or to an in house mental health unit, or third party behavioral health unit, or forensic unit until a state hospital slot can open up. But the real indictment of ‘Swain is simply his ignorance of the human condition. If it was easy to treat psychiatric conditions he’d be doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BirdDogPA Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 There are some decent telemedicine “side hustles” though those are still medical. I know a group that does does telehospitalist. They make 80hr and sit at home. My side hustle is teaching and also a small tree farm ... agriculture. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted October 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2019 Keep it on topic, which financials will be considered in the realm of discussion. It’s not about the obviously dismal state of mental healthcare in this country. Another topic can be started for that if people want to discuss. Further people can disagree with fun little quips and jabs, but remarks bringing it to a personal level are not. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCPAC Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 Y’all...this is the second post I’m about to delete since people wanna use this forum to troll one another. If you can’t stay on topic, create your own thread or DM each other to argue. This forum is getting super skewed Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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