1 year ED fellowship paying $60/year. Thoughts?

[BayPAC]

I would like to do ED but  no luck finding job since I have no ED experience. Found this fellowship paying 60k/year. I'm considering it but having 40%+ pay cut hurts a little... Advice? 

[charlottew]

If you really want to do ED, then $60k/year doing ED (and hopefully learning some advanced skills) is better than $0/year not doing ED.

An alternative is to get a job that pays a full salary (urgent care?) and work a couple of year, then try again for an ED job.

Are you a new grad?

[SoCalPA]

Actually $60k for a residency/fellowship is not bad. That's one of the higher paying ones. Just think of it as more education. Then after 1 year you can call your own shots. Might also consider doing it in conjunction with a DMSc.



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[PAtoMD]

9 hours ago, SoCalPA said:

Actually $60k for a residency/fellowship is not bad. That's one of the higher paying ones. Just think of it as more education. Then after 1 year you can call your own shots. Might also consider doing it in conjunction with a DMSc.



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I think this is a solid idea. 

 

If you really want to be in the ER and are unable to get a job straight up as a PA deciding to do a year long 60k fellowship is the next best thing. Having the residency under your belt should open plenty of doors. Then getting your DMSc since it aligns with a residency. 

[charlottew]

I don't see the DMSc as being as important as the other posters. In my experience the NP's with DNP's have no workplace advantage over non-DNP's, and no work advantage over plain NP's or PA's. The exception is if you want to teach - in that case having the doctorate allows for admin teaching positions. But clinically, I don't see a difference with the doctorate.

And the doctorate is a further expense. Unless you can get your employer to pay for it.

And, if it does become important as the workplace evolves, you can always go back for it later, maybe when your loans are paid off/finances look better.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Residency is the best thing I ever did. After the military I could have gotten a job in the ED. Now I can pick where I want to work. I recently found out the place where I have a job I make as much as the people who have been there 7 years.

[rev ronin]

1 hour ago, charlottew said:

I don't see the DMSc as being as important as the other posters. In my experience the NP's with DNP's have no workplace advantage over non-DNP's, and no work advantage over plain NP's or PA's.

I think that's an apples-to-oranges comparison.  The DNP is not a clinical degree, and gives no additional clinical acumen.  I think the apples-to-apples comparison, with respect to ED work, would be to a DHEd or an MHA.  A DMS/DMSc, based on the curricula I've seen, DO appear to be much more involved with actual pathophysiology.

Doesn't mean you're necessarily wrong, but I would like to hope that those opting for a more clinical (as opposed to research, managerial, or educational) doctorate would be recognized by the medical establishment appropriately.

Edited to add: the irony of NPs having a monolithic doctorate, where PAs have a fragmented series of somewhat overlapping options is not lost on me.

Edited September 8, 2019 by rev ronin
+note irony

[Cideous]

If there was literarily ONE piece of advice I would give all new grads from PA School in 2019?  It would be to DO A RESIDENCY.

IMHO they are absolutely going to be required moving forward.  In fact, we are right on the edge of them being required now in lieu of extensive experience.  

Get it out of the way now and be done with it.

[PANJK]

A friend is doing an emed fellowship on long island for $90k - just something to consider

[cinntsp]

60k/year is average for a fellowship and totally worth it if it's a good program.  Check out https://appap.org/ for other options.

[EMEDPA]

8 hours ago, Cideous said:

If there was literarily ONE piece of advice I would give all new grads from PA School in 2019?  It would be to DO A RESIDENCY.

IMHO they are absolutely going to be required moving forward.  In fact, we are right on the edge of them being required now in lieu of extensive experience.  

Get it out of the way now and be done with it.

This. read it again.

[EMEDPA]

6 hours ago, cinntsp said:

60k/year is average for a fellowship and totally worth it if it's a good program.  Check out https://appap.org/ for other options.

The list here in the EM forum is actually more complete than the appap list as it includes all programs with links.

[karebear12892]

Current EM fellow here. My two cents = I spoke with tons of PA's who were current or former residents/fellows leading up to my residency/fellowship application process. Not a single one of them regretted doing it. But I've also met tons of PA's working in the ER who really wish they had done one. 

Side note: I really wish we (as a profession) would agree on either calling it a residency OR a fellowship. Using the terms interchangeably can be very confusing. 

[CookiePA]

Will this be a limiting factor in lateral mobility in the near future? If you didn’t do X residency you can’t practice in that field regardless of your experience? 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

40 minutes ago, CookiePA said:

Will this be a limiting factor in lateral mobility in the near future? If you didn’t do X residency you can’t practice in that field regardless of your experience? 

Not near enough residencies for that. It may be the future, but not for decades. It may be that way at certain places though. Where I did my residency, you can’t work in the ED there unless you have done one.

[dphy83]

That long island residency where you earn 90k is for the entire length of the program, which is for 1.5-2 years, if I remember correctly. Also, if I remember correctly, it didnt look like a very good program. I dont have the interest to look into it for the sake of this post. But 50-60k for a residency is the going rate, which isnt bad considering you are there to learn. I have no regrets about doing an EM residency (in order to practice in EM). I've had my pick of EM jobs - every EM job I've applied for I've been offered the position.

[Cideous]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 10:38 AM, dphy83 said:

That long island residency where you earn 90k is for the entire length of the program, which is for 1.5-2 years, if I remember correctly. Also, if I remember correctly, it didnt look like a very good program. I dont have the interest to look into it for the sake of this post. But 50-60k for a residency is the going rate, which isnt bad considering you are there to learn. I have no regrets about doing an EM residency (in order to practice in EM). I've had my pick of EM jobs - every EM job I've applied for I've been offered the position.

Exactly my point.  It's why I constantly point out that these will be required very soon.

[True Anomaly]

It's no secret that I'm a fan of residencies for the right candidate, so I have really nothing to add other than the salary you're quoting, as others have pointed out, is pretty good.  It's certainly more than I made as a resident, but I started mine 10 years ago.  

The most important thing about residency is ensuring there is academic standards in place and a solid didactic alongside seeing high-acuity patients that makes it something more than scutting you out cheaply

[Cideous]

13 minutes ago, True Anomaly said:

It's no secret that I'm a fan of residencies for the right candidate, so I have really nothing to add other than the salary you're quoting, as others have pointed out, is pretty good.  It's certainly more than I made as a resident, but I started mine 10 years ago.  

The most important thing about residency is ensuring there is academic standards in place and a solid didactic alongside seeing high-acuity patients that makes it something more than scutting you out cheaply

^^^ Agreed.  You don't want to go to a program that makes you simply an underpaid scut monkey.

On a side note....

How many Aggies does it take to screw in a light bulb?

5.

One to hold the light bulb and the other four Aggies to spin the chair.   

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

^^^ Agreed.  You don't want to go to a program that makes you simply an underpaid scut monkey.
On a side note....
How many Aggies does it take to screw in a light bulb?
5.
One to hold the light bulb and the other four Aggies to spin the chair.  [emoji1] 

So true. [emoji869]

[dphy83]

I hate being incorrect (but it often happens), so I wanted to look into my salary comments regarding the 2 year residency on Long Island. The site is: http://www.lijed.com/?q=content/pa-em-fellowship-0 . No mention of salary or curriculum. 

 

There is also a 24 month program on Staten Island (link at bottom). This one actually does pay $94k PER 12 month period. That's almost 50% more than most residencies pay, so that's a pretty sweet deal. What I can't speak to, however, is the curriculum. I have no clue what your clinical EM shifts are like, what off-service rotations you complete, etc. Site just mentions, "5 hours of didactic conferences each week, specialty procedure labs, emergency ultrasound training, emergency medicine research opportunities as well as ACLS, ATLS, and PALS certification." http://www.statenislandem.com/pa-emergency-medicine-fellowship

 

Not sure why these are 24 months in length. I think most of what you need out of a residency is adequately obtained in the 12 or 18 month ones. Maybe they add in some fast track or other additional shifts to get their money's worth? Maybe they train you up then have you employed for 6 months as an otherwise residency trained PA? Who knows?