Did PAFT just throw our profession under the bus and back over it?

[True Anomaly]

Hi folks,

If you TRULY thought that the AAPA hiring an outside firm was somehow going to just roll with what was suggested, then you haven’t been paying attention over the years with how people feel about names other than Physician Assistant.  I knew this would happen 3 years ago when the HOD voted to outsource this to an independent group.  No matter what recommendation they would come back with, the HOD would tear it up and decided on what they think would be best.  To think otherwise was naive.

That being said, everyone needs to recognize that this forum is a small portion of the PA world.  This forum seems to be under the impression that unless MCP is adopted, the profession will end FOREVER and those who support something other than MCP is the devil and must be stopped. This is just not true

[Cideous]

1 hour ago, True Anomaly said:

Hi folks,

If you TRULY thought that the AAPA hiring an outside firm was somehow going to just roll with what was suggested, then you haven’t been paying attention over the years with how people feel about names other than Physician Assistant.  I knew this would happen 3 years ago when the HOD voted to outsource this to an independent group.  No matter what recommendation they would come back with, the HOD would tear it up and decided on what they think would be best.  To think otherwise was naive.

That being said, everyone needs to recognize that this forum is a small portion of the PA world.  This forum seems to be under the impression that unless MCP is adopted, the profession will end FOREVER and those who support something other than MCP is the devil and must be stopped. This is just not true

No one said all aspects of the profession will end forever. But what will happen and is happening right now is that the remaining assistants will become so super sub specialized mostly in surgery that there will not be near enough jobs for the thousands of PA new graduates. That is a fact.  The ONLY way forward is with aggressive legislation and the ONLY way to get it passed is to have legislatures and the general public see us as practitioners not as assistants and not somebody’s associate.

if this does not happen, the majority of jobs will go to nurse practitioners and those PAs will be dead man walking professionally.

People  can stick their head in the sand all they want, but it doesn’t change the reality around them.

 

[turnedintoamartian]

11 hours ago, Cideous said:

No one said all aspects of the profession will end forever. But what will happen and is happening right now is that the remaining assistants will become so super sub specialized mostly in surgery that there will not be near enough jobs for the thousands of PA new graduates. That is a fact.  The ONLY way forward is with aggressive legislation and the ONLY way to get it passed is to have legislatures and the general public see us as practitioners not as assistants and not somebody’s associate.

if this does not happen, the majority of jobs will go to nurse practitioners and those PAs will be dead man walking professionally.

People  can stick their head in the sand all they want, but it doesn’t change the reality around them.

 

Yeah well, like that’s just your opinion man.

[ventana]

Cideous has a very valid point

 

Here is another one

 

I am a STRONG advocate for PA's

 

I handle the interviewing and hiring for our clinic, although I would love to only hire PA's it is clearly an NP dominated market.  They come with independence, no overshit needed, no papers and meetings to monitor and get done with the doc, no supervision papers to the state, no getting doc's signatures on things.  They are WAY easier to employ.  By like a factor of 100.

 

So even though I am a PA, strongly advocate for PA, in my position I would prefer to hire an NP...... sad but true because they are easier to have with a LOT less red tape.

 

 

So what would an employer whom is NOT a PA or PA advocate do - "Only NP's considered"

 

Where does this leave PA's??  As Cideous stated - buried in specialty medicine where our training and the very nature of the job (The physician is always involved and we are just highly skilled assistance) allows for easier employment 

 

I am not chicken little "sky is falling" but from where the boots meet the ground this is a highly dangerous time for our profession and we risk loosing the ability to easily work in the PCP fields, own practices, and flourish.

 

Now fast forward 10 years - would not surprise me at all for NPs to start going after and attaining ability to be "Medical Directors" (currently restricted to physicians) of facilities like LTC, Aub Acute Rehab, Jails, Prisons, rehab facilities.......

 

Then we are truly in a world of hurt because we will not even be able to work there unless we somehow have an NP supervisor (or they hire a Doc to supervise us)

 

 

 

Seriously folks we are in a time of flux where we MUST keep up.  It is not about getting ahead, it is about not being left behind.....

 

[True Anomaly]

13 hours ago, Cideous said:

No one said all aspects of the profession will end forever. But what will happen and is happening right now is that the remaining assistants will become so super sub specialized mostly in surgery that there will not be near enough jobs for the thousands of PA new graduates. That is a fact.  The ONLY way forward is with aggressive legislation and the ONLY way to get it passed is to have legislatures and the general public see us as practitioners not as assistants and not somebody’s associate.

if this does not happen, the majority of jobs will go to nurse practitioners and those PAs will be dead man walking professionally.

People  can stick their head in the sand all they want, but it doesn’t change the reality around them.

 

Yeah.....I would say that simply saying “if this does not happen, then X” needs to also be recognized as pure speculation and not an eventuality

 

5 minutes ago, ventana said:

Cideous has a very valid point

 

Here is another one

 

I am a STRONG advocate for PA's

 

I handle the interviewing and hiring for our clinic, although I would love to only hire PA's it is clearly an NP dominated market.  They come with independence, no overshit needed, no papers and meetings to monitor and get done with the doc, no supervision papers to the state, no getting doc's signatures on things.  They are WAY easier to employ.  By like a factor of 100.

 

So even though I am a PA, strongly advocate for PA, in my position I would prefer to hire an NP...... sad but true because they are easier to have with a LOT less red tape.

 

 

So what would an employer whom is NOT a PA or PA advocate do - "Only NP's considered"

 

Where does this leave PA's??  As Cideous stated - buried in specialty medicine where our training and the very nature of the job (The physician is always involved and we are just highly skilled assistance) allows for easier employment 

 

I am not chicken little "sky is falling" but from where the boots meet the ground this is a highly dangerous time for our profession and we risk loosing the ability to easily work in the PCP fields, own practices, and flourish.

 

Now fast forward 10 years - would not surprise me at all for NPs to start going after and attaining ability to be "Medical Directors" (currently restricted to physicians) of facilities like LTC, Aub Acute Rehab, Jails, Prisons, rehab facilities.......

 

Then we are truly in a world of hurt because we will not even be able to work there unless we somehow have an NP supervisor (or they hire a Doc to supervise us)

 

 

 

Seriously folks we are in a time of flux where we MUST keep up.  It is not about getting ahead, it is about not being left behind.....

 

And it becomes a matter of opinion that one name will get us there, and another name will kill our profession.  

I agree that we need a name that doesn’t say “assistant” anywhere near it.  But this one specific title of MCP is not the panacea that some folks seem to want it to be.

[sas5814]

20 minutes ago, True Anomaly said:

I agree that we need a name that doesn’t say “assistant” anywhere near it.  But this one specific title of MCP is not the panacea that some folks seem to want it to be.

This comes up again and again. I haven't heard anyone describe title change as a panacea. it is important and it is a change that is part of a bigger picture. It won't be anything magic and it won't be the end times if it doesn't happen.

[turnedintoamartian]

4 hours ago, turnedintoamartian said:

Yeah well, like that’s just your opinion man.

No one has watched the Big Lebowski apparently.

 

[deltawave]

58 minutes ago, turnedintoamartian said:

No one has watched the Big Lebowski apparently.

 

That comment really ties the room together. 

[surgblumm]

If this were our marriages, we would be giving our histories a toss to the wind too quickly. I have been at odds with many of the AAPA's opinions for decades but still maintain my voice in this marriage. I am a founder of PAFT and would not divorce this group so quickly. Do we pull the plug on sepsis or do we do our best to resuscitate? I call for some patience as we  need to see how it plays out and what a new PAFT BOD can add to the mix. It changes from when it was created and will continue to be in a metamorphosis.

[sas5814]

9 minutes ago, surgblumm said:

If this were our marriages, we would be giving our histories a toss to the wind too quickly. I have been at odds with many of the AAPA's opinions for decades but still maintain my voice in this marriage. I am a founder of PAFT and would not divorce this group so quickly. Do we pull the plug on sepsis or do we do our best to resuscitate? I call for some patience as we  need to see how it plays out and what a new PAFT BOD can add to the mix. It changes from when it was created and will continue to be in a metamorphosis.

Thank you Bob. I'd like to add a few thoughts now that the vote is done. I was a loud advocate for MCP within and, where I could be, outside of PAFT. I had direct contact with a LOT of people about the title but acting as an individual.

I theoretically had the option of over riding the BOD on the matter because the president is the only person allowed to speak on behalf of the organization. I think that would have been the wrong thing to do. I cannot have an effective participating board if I decide to run roughshod over the process of decision making. Its isn't like having 3 branches of government and I had veto power. Why would any board member participate and work hard under those circumstances.

I fought loud and long and up to the last minute to change our position but I had to carry the flag once the decision was made. It was a close vote with a lot of back and forth but there it was.

Once there was so much concern that the HOD process might be manipulated we elected to change our official position to neutral (either new title ok. Old title not) and focus on letting everyone know there was going to be a lot of scrutiny on how the business of the HOD was carried out and we leaned into that hard. I had some pretty tense conversations with the "how dare you" crowd. Apparently in the 300ish HOD members there are no human being capable of bad behavior. (eyeroll)

In a few days there will be a mostly fresh, new board. I am getting in my past-president's rocker and, largely, retiring from PA policy. The new board, and the remaining members of the old board, will continue to be aggressive advocates for advancing the profession....if you give them the chance. I'd remind everyone today's vote would not have happened without PAFT. OTP would not have happened without PAFT. Don't let this throw you off the game.

[True Anomaly]

Totally agree.  I believe PAFT has truly done yeoman’s work to drag our profession kicking and screaming into this century.  It may not be the exact result of what people here were wanting, but it’s still a significant stride, and PAFT’s work on this should never be overlooked

[ventana]

PAFT is the change agent, and I will continue to be a member......

I wish they had endorsed MCP but at least they played the game and advocated for a clean process.

 

Moving on to OTP now......

[MediMike]

12 hours ago, turnedintoamartian said:

Yeah well, like that’s just your opinion man.

I got the reference.