GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, sas5814 said: Do you mean PA to MD bridge programs? The market would have to answer that question and the market would ask "what is the advantage?". There is already a shortage of residency matches so what would the upside of creating more unmatched generalists? I see value in a bridge program or 3. I'm just not sure the greater world will (and I know the physicians won't). I was under the impression that the primary care settings weren't being filled. Am I incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted April 30, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 30, 2020 5 hours ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said: I was under the impression that the primary care settings weren't being filled. Am I incorrect? It’s true. The problem is some people aren’t matching because A) they shot for ortho but they have have Family medicine written all over their stats B) some are so bad and barely passed, so they can’t match into anything (essentially why they created assistant physicians in Michigan) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOhnny888 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 I honestly think a great idea would be to combine PA and MD education. 1 didactic, 1 clinical, option to be a PA, 1 didactic, 1 clinical, option to pursue residency or stop and be a PA. This could solve a lot of issues in my mind. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgblumm Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 I would agree about the normal bridge to MD/Do as the residencies will be the problem. I do advocate for those interested in Anesthesia as a PA Anestheioslogist to be allowed into an 18 month training program in a large teaching hospital which would augment the MD, CRNA and AA staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACali Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 On 4/29/2020 at 2:13 PM, Joelseff said: My only qualm about expanding PA to Doc bridge programs is that the product will no longer be a PA but a Doc... If this became the norm or at least a significant number of us did this wouldn't the PA profession be losing members/supporters? I'm not necessarily saying PA to Docs dont support us, I know some do like Prima and others but let's face it, they have more incentive to support docs than PAs... Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk More bridge program means more students will use PA school as a stepping stone. It is frustrating for me to see a new grad who is couple years out and wants go to med school. Also, just like Joelseff said, If I ever become a MD, I could care less about advancing the PA profession. I know PAs who doesn't even care about that let alone PA --> MD people. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobuddy Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 If someone came up with a bridge from PA to NP that was reasonable to do- 1 year or online - they could single handedly wipe out the PA profession as we know it. And make a mint 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 1 hour ago, bobuddy said: If someone came up with a bridge from PA to NP that was reasonable to do- 1 year or online - they could single handedly wipe out the PA profession as we know it. And make a mint 1 year bridge program, that is funny, never going to happen. It would be faster to become a PA, then bridge to MD, than actually go to medical school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgblumm Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 I would add, the nurses would never permit it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnedintoamartian Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 On 4/30/2020 at 11:21 AM, LT_Oneal_PAC said: It’s true. The problem is some people aren’t matching because A) they shot for ortho but they have have Family medicine written all over their stats B) some are so bad and barely passed, so they can’t match into anything (essentially why they created assistant physicians in Michigan) I don’t believe we have assistant physicians in Michigan, it was another M state. Missouri? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted May 1, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 1, 2020 25 minutes ago, turnedintoamartian said: I don’t believe we have assistant physicians in Michigan, it was another M state. Missouri? Sorry, I may have misspoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 LOL @ "m state"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSpectre Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 On 5/1/2020 at 1:30 AM, PACali said: More bridge program means more students will use PA school as a stepping stone. I don't think this is true, at least not if any future bridge programs remain the 3 year length LECOM's bridge is. It isn't actually a shortcut to go to 27+ months of PA school then another 3 years of medical school, and then a minimum of 3 years of residency (plus the gap between PA school and med school to take the MCAT if required, gain acceptance, and wait for the program to start, meaning at least 8-9 years total time if you don't work as a PA at all in the interim). It isn't a shortcut in terms of ease of entry either -- the average PA school cumulative & science GPA for matriculates is competitive for most DO schools, and for a lot of MD schools too. There are also 17+ other medical schools that offer 3 year pathways that anyone can enter -- you don't have to be a PA first, meaning the minimum time someone can become a board certified physician is 6 years; the only real benefit of the LECOM bridge that is unique to PAs is that you can forgo taking the MCAT if your GPA+SAT scores are high enough. I do think a bridge program for PAs is a great option for those who want to increase their scope and become MD/DOs, and I would like to see at least a few more schools offer them. But they certainly aren't a shortcut by any stretch of the imagination. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Do you mean PA to MD bridge programs? The market would have to answer that question and the market would ask "what is the advantage?". There is already a shortage of residency matches so what would the upside of creating more unmatched generalists? I see value in a bridge program or 3. I'm just not sure the greater world will (and I know the physicians won't).Some of us at least have ins for specialty residencies.. I know if I went back I would have very good chances for a few choices of urology residency. This is ultimately what I want to do, but not until there's a viable bridge that wouldn't waste my time and money. Urology, after all, is underserved. DMSc sounds awesome at Lynchburg on paper, but what would I really get out of it? That's where I'm at now, interesting times. Until then, I'll take OTP bc needing my notes signed off and 11 supervisory forms with the board of medicine is getting really old 7 years after urology. Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarwinStarwin Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 I honestly think a great idea would be to combine PA and MD education. 1 didactic, 1 clinical, option to be a PA, 1 didactic, 1 clinical, option to pursue residency or stop and be a PA. This could solve a lot of issues in my mind. I went to a program that was integrated with the MD. Overall the PA students achieved higher scores on our shared examinations. While it was useful for my ego and sense of self as a clinician to know that I consistently achieved in the 90th percentile of MD students, the name PA just knocks me down every time. The simple psychology of it. Assistants will never practice with the level of independence they are trained for and capable of. I do feel lucky that my practice is highly supportive of PAs and has PA advocacy at an admin level. I have spoken with enough of my friends whose practices are nightmares to know that I am in a Cinderella position and if I choose to change practices it will be hugely challenging to vye with NPs or to find a practice environment that feels even moderately respectful of my training and capabilities. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACali Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 On 5/2/2020 at 11:23 AM, ProSpectre said: I don't think this is true, at least not if any future bridge programs remain the 3 year length LECOM's bridge is. It isn't actually a shortcut to go to 27+ months of PA school then another 3 years of medical school, and then a minimum of 3 years of residency (plus the gap between PA school and med school to take the MCAT if required, gain acceptance, and wait for the program to start, meaning at least 8-9 years total time if you don't work as a PA at all in the interim). It isn't a shortcut in terms of ease of entry either -- the average PA school cumulative & science GPA for matriculates is competitive for most DO schools, and for a lot of MD schools too. There are also 17+ other medical schools that offer 3 year pathways that anyone can enter -- you don't have to be a PA first, meaning the minimum time someone can become a board certified physician is 6 years; the only real benefit of the LECOM bridge that is unique to PAs is that you can forgo taking the MCAT if your GPA+SAT scores are high enough. I do think a bridge program for PAs is a great option for those who want to increase their scope and become MD/DOs, and I would like to see at least a few more schools offer them. But they certainly aren't a shortcut by any stretch of the imagination. I know. I think to most of us PA school is not a stepping stone, but it is to the young 24yo graduates with minimal knowledge of personal finance. Like many pre-med would end up getting a master degree, many of them choose MSPA. I really don’t understand why they are PAs who decided to go to Med school only 1 to 2 years after PA school. (for me, going to medical school is close to one million, including opportunity cost). I blamed ourselves, the experienced PAs and PA school sugarcoat the profession too much. “Top 3 best jobs in the Country” and “Fastest growing job” is all they know when they apply to PA school. Personally, I told every pre-health/pre-pa student, if you want to go medical, go now, please do not go to PA school and regret it later. As a PA who has no desire to go to medical school, I believe the bridge program would actually hurt the profession. Besides, I don’t see any reason why the medical schools want to allow any “real, meaningful bridge programs” that would actually make sense financially for the average working PAs. I think we should focus our energy to increase autonomy in primary care. That is the one area we could fight for autonomy quickly because there is a shortage, it does not require years of training (in comparison to specialties) and physicians do not want to touch primary care with a 10ft stick unless they have no choice. All PA programs should make appropriate adjustments and transition to Doctorate since 3 years medical schools are on the rise. MSPA will not get us too far. https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/med-school-3-years-future-medical-education Lastly, get rid of “physician” in our title. We need a stand alone name. We will regret it years from now if we don’t. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgblumm Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Good subject matter. Interstate reciprosity Emergency powers after Covid-19 for all catastrophes Increased Telemedicine CME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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