Jump to content

VITAMIN K2... The new Vitamin D, B12, C?


Recommended Posts

Anyone know anything about Vit K2? I've done some research and it sounds, to me, it's just another Fad magic cure pushed upon our magic pill seeking pts.
 
I have at least 3-5 pts per week that asks me about this and I tell them I don't know much about it but give them my usual answer of "so I cannot recommend it but will look into it." and I have looked into it but there is not much out there on it from reliable sources. The pts apparently are already taking daily supplements of this.
 
I have heard pts say that "they read online" or "heard from a friend (or naturopath or chiro or nurse friend or magic genie whatever) that it is known that deficiencies of K2 are linked to CVD, atherosclerosis, DM etc... Maybe even global warming [emoji848]
 
What I do know or at least from my research is that we are unable to test for levels which leads me to ask then how do we know if we are deficient? Also the daily recommended dose is miniscule. Like 0.01mg/kg. It is found with K1 so any green leafy vegetable or other K rich foods contain it. And since it is miniscule in necessary daily intake, won't a serving of broccoli be enough?
 
I usually don't recommend supplements since I think a bunch of it is overreaction by some researcher or practitioner who has found the "magic source."
 
I do recommend B12 and D etc for those who are ACTUALLY deficient confirmed by serum studies. And I only treat to replete not to have super high levels. Much to the chagrin of my many B12 injection addicts (inherited pts) who swear they still need a B12 shot even though their current level is ">2000" on their labs. [emoji849]
 
And recent studies have shown MVI and most supplementation has no effect on disease or mortality...
 
 
Anyhoo, just wanted to pick you guys' brains and see if I'm missing something here.
 
 
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
 


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ponce DeLeon would be proud, we're still looking for the fountain of youth.  Testosterone, b12, d, c, puppies...but people don't listen when lipids, exercise, smoking cessation are on the table.  Anytime someone says "I saw on" or " I read on" I want to bang my head on the table.  

This is my biggest issue. These "newfound health fanatics" are usually boomers who have and continue to neglect my usual advice on nutrition and exercise and to take the meds that are already prescribed but they get on a kick about knowing something the provider is "not educated" on.  

I had one last week who has an a1c of 9.5 and won't take even Metformin because "im a chef and know about nutrition and I drink apple cider vinegar and drink black horseradish mushroom tea 2x a day so my sugar should not be a problem" although she never checks her sugars oh and she has fibromyalgia an d that explains why her labs are wonky lol. Maybe a psych referral is in order.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5494092/#!po=6.81818

This is an article on the K vitamins. Has some evidence base in it.

To date, no one has asked me about this one.... just cursed myself.

Side note - used to work with a doc in Texas who got into the vitamin urine fad/nonsense where you had your urine tested and the “missing” vitamins were your deficit and the pyramid company she bought into would custom make you a vitamin based on what wasn’t in your pee. 

Amazing what folks will do to avoid eating real food - millions of dollars in supplements but won’t buy healthy food - go figure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
13 hours ago, jmj11 said:

Whittaker?

Jim Wickwire. he gave a talk in Portland with a slide show a few years ago about his ascent of K2 and surviving the highest overnight bivouac in history near the summit.  I got him to sign a copy of his book for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Wickwire

https://www.amazon.com/Addicted-Danger-Affirming-Life-Death/dp/0671019910

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

Jim Wickwire. he gave a talk in Portland with a slide show a few years ago about his ascent of K2 and surviving the highest overnight bivouac in history near the summit.  I got him to sign a copy of his book for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Wickwire

https://www.amazon.com/Addicted-Danger-Affirming-Life-Death/dp/0671019910

So, I guess the other Jim W organized the climb and Wickwire s the one who made it to the summit. I watched this movie again last night after thinking about K2:  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

ADEK are fat soluble vitamins, it is possible to overdose on them....

 

every article i have read recently is that we eat enough fortified foods unless we have a mal absorption syndrome or some chronic disease we do not need any supplemental vitamins.... period...

 

nope not for me.....

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, ventana said:

ADEK are fat soluble vitamins, it is possible to overdose on them....

 

every article i have read recently is that we eat enough fortified foods unless we have a mal absorption syndrome or some chronic disease we do not need any supplemental vitamins.... period...

 

nope not for me.....

If the articles aren't sold next to the check out lane at Walmart, they mean nothing!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ADEK are fat soluble vitamins, it is possible to overdose on them....
 
every article i have read recently is that we eat enough fortified foods unless we have a mal absorption syndrome or some chronic disease we do not need any supplemental vitamins.... period...
 
nope not for me.....
I'm of the same mind set.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
20 hours ago, jmj11 said:

So, I guess the other Jim W organized the climb and Wickwire s the one who made it to the summit. I watched this movie again last night after thinking about K2:  

 

Whitaker was first American to summit Everest. I met Ed Viesturs a few years ago too( only American to complete all 14 8000 meter peaks and 5th ever to use no o2). Nice guy. Also signed a book for me. http://www.edviesturs.com/about-ed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to conference where this was discussed.  Vitamin K2 does not effect blood thinners, but I will admit it was a BioTe conference.  Several MDs in different disciplines were presenting, so it wasn't like unproven science or a chiro presenting.
 
I get that much since K1 is the one that interferes with Warfarin but what about the actual repletion or need for repletion of K2? Did they address that? How was it measured in serum to determine there was in fact deficiency? If so how much were we to prescribe and how do we monitor repletion?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I get a patient who has a bmi of 23, runs 5 miles a day, is a vegan, gets all his preventative health screenings, then I will discuss minutiae like micronutrient deficiency.  Until then, I'm going for the lowest hanging fruit of obesity, sleep apnea, smoking, and diabetes management.  Because your* (the patient, I respect your opinion Joelseff) vitamin oz baloney ain't the thing making you fatigued, cranky, and worn out; it's your lifestyle.  Like checking your texts every five minutes.  Your lack of interpersonal relationships but "liking" every Facebook post.  

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, thinkertdm said:

When I get a patient who has a bmi of 23, runs 5 miles a day, is a vegan, gets all his preventative health screenings, then I will discuss minutiae like micronutrient deficiency.  Until then, I'm going for the lowest hanging fruit of obesity, sleep apnea, smoking, and diabetes management.  Because your* (the patient, I respect your opinion Joelseff) vitamin oz baloney ain't the thing making you fatigued, cranky, and worn out; it's your lifestyle.  Like checking your texts every five minutes.  Your lack of interpersonal relationships but "liking" every Facebook post.  

 

This cannot be liked enough!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been using Thiamine, steroids, and  Vitamin C for sepsis, 1.5gm IV. There are a few ongoing studies showing it may help. 

https://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(16)62564-3/fulltext

I wonder how much of the heavy lifting was from the steroids vs the thiamine and Vit C. [emoji848]

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to the Physician Assistant Forum! This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Learn More