PA to MD Bridge

[waky02]

My point regarding the masters level and multiple specialty practice is obliquely referencing the need for an accelerated program that does not limit the potential residency opportunities.

One of the replies stated that MS1 was unlike anything that PA school had to offer. Really? If am not mistaken many PA schools have the students taking many of the same courses as the MD/DO students. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by waky02

[camoman1234]

8 minutes ago, waky02 said:

My point regarding the masters level and multiple specialty practice is obliquely referencing the need for an accelerated program that does not limit the potential residency opportunities.

One of the replies stated that MS1 was unlike anything that PA school had to offer. Really? If am not mistaken many PA schools have the students taking many of the same courses as the MD/DO students. 

I am not a MD/DO, but did go to a PA school that was affiliated with MD students. We had similar classes, but did not have the other science classes that are part of MS1. I would not even compare our courses to their MS1, you will get laughed at by the MD/DOs on this board. 

[waky02]

I am not saying that the didactic year in pa school can stand in for MS1&2, but it does stand for something no? hence an appropriate adaptation should be available.

 

I for one went to a solo PA school without an attached MD school at that time

[DannyPADO]

7 hours ago, waky02 said:

One of the replies stated that MS1 was unlike anything that PA school had to offer. Really? If am not mistaken many PA schools have the students taking many of the same courses as the MD/DO students. 

I used to think like this, after graduating PA school taking similar classes with the medical students. I performed very well and felt like MS1/MS2 would be a breeze. The difference in the medical school curriculum is manifested as significantly more content combined with the increased depth into this content.

I fear you have perceived my comment as something negative towards PAs. The point is that they are significantly different curriculums, geared towards achieving different goals.

 

6 hours ago, waky02 said:

I am not saying that the didactic year in pa school can stand in for MS1&2, but it does stand for something no? hence an appropriate adaptation should be available.

It will be difficulty for a medical school dean to take this seriously. The didactic year is not an appropriate substitute for MS1/MS2, which is structured to prepare you for Step 1. The curriculum in PA school is not. The "appropriate adaption" should be in the reduction of clinical rotations, where PAs shine and have already obtained this experience. The only pre-clinical class a PA could possibly accelerate through is H&P.

[debcpa28]

My biggest thing would be to not have to move.  I was going to apply to LECOMs program but it would require me to pick up my family and move to be within the hour requirement from the campus. I live 2 hours. Most PAs who would do a bridge program are established, settled and older I would presume and have been practicing for awhile (me 15 years). I would love a distance learning format with little time spent on campus needed. I would love some sort of credit for my years of being a PA. The LECOM program gives you no benefit over a person just applying to their Family medicine track. Some sort of testing in process would help. Lincoln memorial university has teamed with debusk osteopathic medical school to create a new DMS degree for PAs bridging knowledge between a PA and a doc. This holds no weight in legislation right now but i know there is a bill right now out there requesting to allow DMS degree holders in Tennessee to have the same rights and responsibilities of a do or md.

[Joelseff]

My biggest thing would be to not have to move.  I was going to apply to LECOMs program but it would require me to pick up my family and move to be within the hour requirement from the campus. I live 2 hours. Most PAs who would do a bridge program are established, settled and older I would presume and have been practicing for awhile (me 15 years). I would love a distance learning format with little time spent on campus needed. I would love some sort of credit for my years of being a PA. The LECOM program gives you no benefit over a person just applying to their Family medicine track. Some sort of testing in process would help. Lincoln memorial university has teamed with debusk osteopathic medical school to create a new DMS degree for PAs bridging knowledge between a PA and a doc. This holds no weight in legislation right now but i know there is a bill right now out there requesting to allow DMS degree holders in Tennessee to have the same rights and responsibilities of a do or md.

That bill got a lot of pushback and the authors rewrote it to make it pretty much a doctorate for a PA with all the rights and responsibilities of... A PA...

There's a thread here where a poster posted the revised bill. I was disappointed.

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[lkth487]

6 hours ago, DannyPADO said:

I used to think like this, after graduating PA school taking similar classes with the medical students. I performed very well and felt like MS1/MS2 would be a breeze. The difference in the medical school curriculum is manifested as significantly more content combined with the increased depth into this content.

I fear you have perceived my comment as something negative towards PAs. The point is that they are significantly different curriculums, geared towards achieving different goals.

 

It will be difficulty for a medical school dean to take this seriously. The didactic year is not an appropriate substitute for MS1/MS2, which is structured to prepare you for Step 1. The curriculum in PA school is not. The "appropriate adaption" should be in the reduction of clinical rotations, where PAs shine and have already obtained this experience. The only pre-clinical class a PA could possibly accelerate through is H&P.

Having done both curriculums, how much does doing well on the PANCE/PANRE help you towards doing well on STEP 1 (in terms of content, difficulty, depth, etc)?

[DannyPADO]

3 hours ago, lkth487 said:

Having done both curriculums, how much does doing well on the PANCE/PANRE help you towards doing well on STEP 1 (in terms of content, difficulty, depth, etc)?

Hard to say really. I think if you prepared for the PA boards in order to score very high and achieve this, you likely have the capacity to perform well on Step 1 knowing what it takes to prep for that examination.

Personally, I only prepped for 2 weeks for the PANCE and less than that for the PANRE. Probably did average, but my goal was to just pass. For Step 1, I think in general most students try their best, knowing that high board scores opens many opportunities for residencies.  I started prepping 5 months out and 6-7000 Qbank questions in order to score well for Step 1.

High performance throughout didactics in PA school, in my eyes, is a better indicator of how well you can handle the rigor of the medical school curriculum and subsequent board examinations. 

[PAtoMD]

1 hour ago, DannyPADO said:

Hard to say really. I think if you prepared for the PA boards in order to score very high and achieve this, you likely have the capacity to perform well on Step 1 knowing what it takes to prep for that examination.

Personally, I only prepped for 2 weeks for the PANCE and less than that for the PANRE. Probably did average, but my goal was to just pass. For Step 1, I think in general most students try their best, knowing that high board scores opens many opportunities for residencies.  I started prepping 5 months out and 6-7000 Qbank questions in order to score well for Step 1.

High performance throughout didactics in PA school, in my eyes, is a better indicator of how well you can handle the rigor of the medical school curriculum and subsequent board examinations. 

Curious, what did you match into/ what do you practice?

[Ridiculopathy]

I'm thinking of going to massage therapy school instead!  But bring on the bridge programs!

[EMEDPA]

I like the idea of a bridge still but in my late 40s would only do 1 if it was local or included a large distance component. if I was 10-15 years younger, I would do LECOM.

[ventana]

5 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

I like the idea of a bridge still but in my late 40s would only do 1 if it was local or included a large distance component. if I was 10-15 years younger, I would do LECOM.

ditto

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

5 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

I like the idea of a bridge still but in my late 40s would only do 1 if it was local or included a large distance component. if I was 10-15 years younger, I would do LECOM.

Same

[camoman1234]

5 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

I like the idea of a bridge still but in my late 40s would only do 1 if it was local or included a large distance component. if I was 10-15 years younger, I would do LECOM.

I would like to do a PA residency, but making 1/2 of what I am making now (not including my 1099 position) x 18 months is impossible when my wife and I are paying $2500/month for student loans...

[PAtoMD]

3 minutes ago, camoman1234 said:

I would like to do a PA residency, but making 1/2 of what I am making now (not including my 1099 position) x 18 months is impossible when my wife and I are paying $2500/month for student loans...

I believe you can defer payments while in residency.  Not that it offsets the decrease in pay.

[camoman1234]

On 3/15/2018 at 9:22 AM, SR0525 said:

I believe you can defer payments while in residency.  Not that it offsets the decrease in pay.

I cannot as some of my loans are 14 years old, already hit the time limit on most of my loans. Regardless of the fact we cannot move nor really want to. Just a dream of mine that will never happen. 

[Joelseff]

Same

#MeToo (lol)

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[Kaepora]

The PA school that is associated with LECOM doesn't have "medical school" prerequisite requirements for their BS/MS PA students.  Those students have 1 semester of "foundations of chemistry", 1 semester of "organic principles", etc in the undergraduate portion of their program.  So how then, does LECOM waive those requirements for matriculating PAs? 

[PAtoMD]

2 hours ago, Kaepora said:

The PA school that is associated with LECOM doesn't have "medical school" prerequisite requirements for their BS/MS PA students.  Those students have 1 semester of "foundations of chemistry", 1 semester of "organic principles", etc in the undergraduate portion of their program.  So how then, does LECOM waive those requirements for matriculating PAs? 

Because only certified PAs can apply

[ProSpectre]

3 hours ago, Kaepora said:

The PA school that is associated with LECOM doesn't have "medical school" prerequisite requirements for their BS/MS PA students.  Those students have 1 semester of "foundations of chemistry", 1 semester of "organic principles", etc in the undergraduate portion of their program.  So how then, does LECOM waive those requirements for matriculating PAs? 

Most PA programs require science prerequisites to be those that are offered for science majors (and specifically reject courses like those you mentioned). Show me a master's level PA program that actually says they will accept those classes you mention, and I will be very surprised. 

Besides, most PA applicants these days have taken all or most of the med school prereqs anyway in order to cover their bases for application to various PA schools (which each have slightly different requirements for specific classes). Just to make sure I could apply to the schools I wanted to, I had to take gen chem 1 & 2, organic chem 1 & 2, bio 1 & 2, A&P 1 & 2, genetics, microbiology, immunology, etc. And that isn't at all out of the ordinary. 

So on top of them requiring you to be a certified PA, they still require at least one physics course and one organic chem course, but they know most applicants will bring far more to the table than that since PA school itself requires many of the courses I mentioned. 

[EMEDPA]

when I was looking at lecom a few years ago I spoke with the director there and was assured my PA prereqs + pance/panre score + a single online ochem course for 3 units without lab from UC Berkeley would meet the requirements. I have the bio, chem, physics, genetics, etc already. Never took ochem or biochem as they were not required when I applied in 1992. Really wish I had done it, but family situations made it untenable(wife lost job, illnesses in extended family, etc). 

[Kaepora]

16 hours ago, ProSpectre said:

Show me a master's level PA program that actually says they will accept those classes you mention, and I will be very surprised. 

The BS/MS PA program at Seton Hill - the school where the LECOM bridge program is housed - does not have their students take 2 semesters of "science major" classes.  They are 1 semester "foundations of..." courses.

[ProSpectre]

1 hour ago, Kaepora said:

The BS/MS PA program at Seton Hill - the school where the LECOM bridge program is housed - does not have their students take 2 semesters of "science major" classes.  They are 1 semester "foundations of..." courses.

Have you looked into this yourself, or are you going off of hearsay? Because according to the Seton Hall website, that is incorrect for both the direct entry master's PA program (https://www.shu.edu/physician-assistant/upload/Pre-Requisites.pdf) and for the dual-tract BS/MS PA Program (dual tract degrees are still the exact same curriculum for the master's portion anyway, they just usually provide a guaranteed interview for those students within their special dual-degree program). 

The dual tract is based on a Bachelors of Science in Biology degree, wherein you fulfill the prerequisites for the master's program while doing the bachelors portion of the program. The bachelors in biology is a science major (obviously), and the courses you take are those designed for science majors. The dual degree requires General Chemistry I & II, Calc I, General Biology I & II, Microbiology, and A&P I & II. These are the exact same courses a bio major takes. 

The website for the dual degree: https://www.shu.edu/academics/bs-ms-physician-assistant.cfm 

The course cataog outlining courses required for a BS in biology from Seton Hall (the PA dual degree core requirements start on page 106) http://www.shu.edu/academics/upload/2017-2018-Undergraduate-Catalogue.pdf

 

Edited: Well apparently I was looking at Seton Hall university, not Seton Hill university, and I was wrong on this one (who knew there were two universities with almost the same name that both had dual-degree tracts?). I think you are correct on Seton Hill's BS/MS program, but this is not the norm for the vast majority of PA programs, and students in that program still must complete the normal curriculum for the master's portion of the PA program. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by ProSpectre

[BruceBanner]

I would never pay to go back to school, but I dont see why a 5+ year PA would need to do ANY clinical rotations in a bridge program.

 

 

[camoman1234]

6 minutes ago, BruceBanner said:

I would never pay to go back to school, but I dont see why a 5+ year PA would need to do ANY clinical rotations in a bridge program.

 

 

I respectfully disagree. There was a difference in some of my rotations, they rotations that were more formal and I was treated like a resident I learned much more, was pushed more, did more, see more, and taught more. My 4+ work history as a solo rural family medicine PA (when the CP comes 8 hours per month), nothing pushes me to learn something different, I do not get that constant feedback, support, being told to read up on this or look into this, etc. If I did ever go back to medical school (bridge program) you bet your butt I better be doing rotations with MD/DOs as you will learn more than you think.