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New DMSc program in Oregon


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2 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

I guess my question should've been asked in regards to OTP.  How does OTP differentiate between you and a new grad regarding need for supervision?

one off the cornerstones of OTP is "supervision is determined at the practice level". That means the hospital could require 100% chart review for any new grad for 2 years than 50% for 3 years,  and an association with a specific physician etc, while letting me have 0% chart review and no established/required physician collaborator.  Could they let us both run free from day 1? sure, but that would just be stupid. stupid costs lives and therefore money. the floodgates will not open for inexperienced PAs working far above their ability. hospitals just won't allow it. even "independent hospitalist NPs" work on teams. they can't do crazy stuff like 5 attempts on a chest tube and think the chief of the service won't have them fired.

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HI all, I am the one who is behind the GFU doctorate and there is good reason for correcting this issue.  First, you need to understand that academic awards are based on regional accreditation.  

No, he shouldn't.  He should be EXACTLY as loud as he wants to be.  I may disagree with him, but I damn well support his right to voice his opinion here.  If it upsets some fragile little ego's, then

I do hope this doctorate program will be discussing the value of essential oils!

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pretty well I think. just like there were bs to ms programs that could be done in a year at low cost(nebraska, etc), there are already low cost ms to dmsc programs. as more of these arrive, I would expect the price to go down a bit. Many employers would allow you to use cme funds for this I would imagine. I used cme to cover my masters from nebraska in 1998. 
You will likely get better jobs/opportunities with a doctorate than without one. The least expensive DMSc is now less than 20k and can be done in less than 2 years. For a bit more money you can do a 1 yr program. 
I'm waiting for more to arrive. Something similar to the Nebraska bridge. Something self paced (done in a year) and low cost. I mean my PA program was well over 100 units.

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HI all,
I am the one who is behind the GFU doctorate and there is good reason for correcting this issue.  First, you need to understand that academic awards are based on regional accreditation.  Here is what the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities states:  

Degree Levels Associate

A lower division undergraduate degree normally representing two years (approximately 60 semester credits or 90 quarter units) of lower‐division collegiate study, or its equivalent in depth and quality of learning experience.

Baccalaureate

An undergraduate degree normally representing four years (approximately 120 semester credits or 180 quarter credits) of upper‐ and lower‐division collegiate study, or its equivalent in depth and quality of learning experience.

Masters

A graduate degree representing approximately 30 semester credits or 45 quarter credits of post‐baccalaureate study, or its equivalent in depth and quality.

Doctorate

A terminal degree representing three or more years [90 SH] of graduate study that prepares the recipient to conduct original research, engage in scholarship, create artistic expressions of human emotions, or apply knowledge to practice.

--
The type of degree awarded has nothing to do with the practice as a PA.  That is governed by the state medical board and legislation.   It does have everything to do with standards of regional accreditation.  It is not degree creep, it doesn't change what needs to be done.  It is simply applying the standards of regional accreditation and academic aptitude.   
oh, and the degree is a doctor of medical science.  Not PA Medicine.  And the tuition cost is similar to all regional costs (extrapolated out to 2021); the program has no fees.  And finally, I was a "certified PA."  
Please don't get caught up in the falsehood of degree creep or thinking the university makes more doing this.  Neither are true.  The cost is the same.  In fact, it is easier for me to build a Master's degree.  But, I am an academic and I intend to pursue a program that meets regional accreditation standards as listed above.   
Hope this helps.
Greg
Will you add a component similar to the Nebraska bridge for masters level PAs?


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12 minutes ago, SoCalPA said:

Will you add a component similar to the Nebraska bridge for masters level PAs?


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I will ask him. We have lunch once/month when I drive through his town en route to one of my rural jobs.

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I will ask him. We have lunch once/month when I drive through his town en route to one of my rural jobs.

Thanks EMED. A lil completion between the programs might be good. I know ALOT of people went to the Nebraska program because it was convenient and inexpensive. I'm sure they earned a pretty penny and got their name out there.

 

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Another bridge would be good. There's always Lynchburg and LMU. ATSU has one now too but though I got my MS from them and they are a top notch school, it is priced higher than Lynchburg and longer.

I'm still leaning towards the LMU one. If I get one.

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On 12/20/2018 at 12:49 PM, EMEDPA said:

I think I heard that Nebraska is working on an MS to DMSc bridge and will be phasing out their BS to MPAS program at some point.

I called and ask the office person

she had no idea

 

I suspect these plans have got to be in works but are not public yet

 

as a grad of the MS program I would happily attend a Bridge DMSC program 

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18 minutes ago, ventana said:

I called and ask the office person

she had no idea

 

I suspect these plans have got to be in works but are not public yet

 

as a grad of the MS program I would happily attend a Bridge DMSC program 

guessing it will not be as cheap as the MPAS back in the day. probably very similar to Lynchburg or ATSU(around a yr, around 20k).

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guessing it will not be as cheap as the MPAS back in the day. probably very similar to Lynchburg or ATSU(around a yr, around 20k).
Oh yeah it won't be cheap like back in the day but if they make it cheapER, no longer than 1 year and give clinical waivers for residencies/fellowships participants they will have hit all 3 of the best points already in play.

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9 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

interesting...not a lot of info yet...https://rmuohp.edu/academics/doctor-of-medical-science/

The application link for this program is live with both a spring and fall 2019 enrollment dates.

4 semesters all online which is appealing.  No info on tuition but comparing their other programs likely to be pricey.

Pretty low bar enrollment requirements (unencumbered license, transcripts, 2 letters of rec...) enrolling 40 students at each enrollment (each spring/fall).

Could be one to keep an eye on....especially if the end goal is simply the advanced degree.

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4 minutes ago, SoCalPA said:

The competition will do us good. EMEDPA why don't you start one? Rutgers?

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Rutgers is a bit out of the way for a west coast guy.... I already teach for one of the current DMSc programs and will likely teach at GF when it becomes active. 

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I just got through reading (and re-reading) and comparing the curricula of LMU, Lynchburg, ATSU (so far the only MS to DMS programs out) and I am still leaning towards LMU. It is the only ony I see that has a clinical focus and as I have expressed before, that's all I'm interested in. In fact.... I downloaded the application. [emoji51]

 

I *just might* do this!.... Might...

 

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On 12/19/2018 at 7:08 PM, EMEDPA said:

are all those times part time months? because that is 23 months of clinicals not including didactics....

This was a 3 year program, so 1 year of didactics alone, then clinical began while didactics continued.  So the didactic portion was considered part-time, but the clinical portion was considered full-time.  I've detailed the clinical work-load elsewhere on this forum.  For medicine rotations, contact hours were counted by patient encounters which were counted by writing a note.  And for surgical rotations we had a minimum hour requirement that was counted from "cut to close".  It was stringent.  

Some of us still worked - I continued to hold a casual position picking up a shift or 2 a month on weekends, and then when we had a week off between quarters.  

I will readily admit that the minimum requirements for PA programs set by ARC-PA far exceeds the minimum requirements for NP programs set by CCNE.  But there are NP programs out there that are doing it right.  And for what it's worth, as I've stated elsewhere here, there is a large grass roots movement among NPs to increase the CCNE's standards and close diploma mills.  Slowly but surely. 

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