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You're screwing the profession/all the PA's that come after you


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I sick of the narrative some people on this forum spew and propagate.  Apparently if you don't have an ideal job with great pay and an ideal work situation where you are treated like a full attending or physician, you should refuse the job.  AND, if you are brand new PA with a bunch of debt and a family to feed, you should turn down any paying job or quit the job you already have if it doesn't meet the aforemntioned requirements.  I mean, it totally makes sense because you can just live off all the money you earned in the last 2.5-3 years or PA school you just finished, right?

 

I now work in a place that pays above average in a great work environment 5 years out from graduating, but I know there's no way in hell I could've landed this job without gaining experience from less ideal positions.  

 

Also, screw Kevin Durant.

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There's a balance between taking entry-level work, and being abused.

 

Unfortunately, as more and more programs continue spewing out more and more graduates, and as their tuition prices go up the levels of debt and desperation will rise commensurately... salaries WILL go down, benefits WILL go down, and your management will start thinking "Why am I paying this guy so much when I can get a new grad for $20,000+/year cheaper?"

 

Basic economics.  One way--perhaps the only effective way--is to collectively reject abusive terms.  Hiring managers look at the AAPA salary report and laugh, knowing it's cherry picked data that their own recruiting firms tell them is unrealistic and unsustainable.

 

How are you preparing for the impending drop in your relative earning power, if not your absolute income?

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Agree with Rev.  Abuse vs entry-level new grad.  Take for instance the post "No support staff?" on the forum.  Taking a position in which you need to room your own patients, clean the room in between patients, and handle all your orders/referrals/etc... If that is how all providers worked in the clinic maybe, but it is not.  So, should my fellow colleague take a position like that?  No, is my answer.  However, I acknowledge that sometimes you have to do it for the money to support yourself/family.  In return that PA will hopefully use such a job as a very quick stepping stone to something better.  That will eventually tell said employer such working conditions are not acceptable as they deal with high turnover. 

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I sick of the narrative some people on this forum spew and propagate.  Apparently if you don't have an ideal job with great pay and an ideal work situation where you are treated like a full attending or physician, you should refuse the job.  AND, if you are brand new PA with a bunch of debt and a family to feed, you should turn down any paying job or quit the job you already have if it doesn't meet the aforemntioned requirements.  I mean, it totally makes sense because you can just live off all the money you earned in the last 2.5-3 years or PA school you just finished, right?

 

I now work in a place that pays above average in a great work environment 5 years out from graduating, but I know there's no way in hell I could've landed this job without gaining experience from less ideal positions.  

 

Also, screw Kevin Durant.

 

 

Sometimes one just needs to wake up to a good ol' "Hook 'em, Horns" and the alarm blaring "The Eyes of Texas".  Good one, KD (though I went to bed at the start of the 4th so I could psychologically prep for my colonoscopy).  May have to watch the 4th qtr. on my TiVo app at lunch today.  Uh oh, I forgot to mention that I get a lunch break at my job (just no darn food today).  If one wants the perfect medical position, then one needs to go into pathology to limit discussions with patients.  That's the downfall of medicine; actually having to talk to our clientele.

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I posted an small update on the original thread but thanks for this post.

 

I appreciate all the advice given but in my current situation I can't be this PA martyr where I take a stand for the profession and immediately run away from the job. I'm gonna see how the actual office works and speak with my actual doc and office manager before I make any decisions. I'll obviously keep looking but I can't just quit and find a locums job with a daughter, pregnant wife, renting a new house with higher rent because our apartment while I was in PA school isn't made for a family of 4, etc. at some point you have to put family above all and make the best of what you have until something else comes. I'm not even licensed yet. I just passed my boards a couple of weeks ago so their paying me to just essentially shadow for a month which is actually nice considering all my other job offers and classmates aren't starting until everything is completely done (start dates in August/September).

 

Again thanks for all the advice given in both threads. I appreciate the voice of more experienced PAs. I do want to be an advocate for the profession and have a role in the future where I can help PAs.

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humm

 

 

people come here for advise, post specifics, and people reply....

and somehow some of the replies are not fit for consumption?

 

 

I guess I don't understand where there is an issue........

 

 

 

As a side note- the first 1-2 years out of school (and certainly the 2-3 years in school) are just so intense and difficult people do look for advice on topics which that have less experience IE employment issues...... this is reasonable and logical and is in fact what makes a good provider - research it , gather data, evaluate it, and make a decision.    I am sorry that you don't personally like some of the advice, but we do all have the right to answer questions....

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I sick of the narrative some people on this forum spew and propagate.  Apparently if you don't have an ideal job with great pay and an ideal work situation where you are treated like a full attending or physician, you should refuse the job.  AND, if you are brand new PA with a bunch of debt and a family to feed, you should turn down any paying job or quit the job you already have if it doesn't meet the aforemntioned requirements.  I mean, it totally makes sense because you can just live off all the money you earned in the last 2.5-3 years or PA school you just finished, right?

 

I now work in a place that pays above average in a great work environment 5 years out from graduating, but I know there's no way in hell I could've landed this job without gaining experience from less ideal positions.  

 

Also, screw Kevin Durant.

I get it, but you ARE screwing the next PA/NP that comes behind you when you lower yourself to these standards. We have ALL been in these same situations and are trying to help out the new PAs coming on board. The advice of not rooming your own patients, getting vitals/labs/scan paperwork in is totally crazy. I think you have blown this way out in left field as this is not the norm for most positions. Just simple advice that money isn't everything, lifestyle, comfort, loving your career....

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I never said I didn't like or appreciate the advice. I completely agreed with nearly every reply. All I was saying is I can't immediately quit with no other job and after getting advice from here and from preceptors I've put out resumes and stuff. The whole point of the last reply was just saying I'm not currently in a spot to be unemployed. I've been in contact with recruiters that reached out to me prior to accepting this position. I don't know where you got that I didn't like any of the advice or answers

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I think most of us here are very pro-PA and we see all the garbage jobs people are offered because this is a natural place to come with those problems.

 

It's true that you are screwing the next wave when you take a sub-par job, albeit indirectly. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

I took a job paying $72k six months out from school because i could not find a job and I was quite literally delivering Domino's pizza for cash. I wasnt too proud to work.

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Bruce I am reminded of people who say"if it was my kid" when talking about troubled kids. The fact is unless you are in the same spot you don't know what you would do. Mouths to feed, pregnant wife... he has greater considerations that need to be taken care of. I personally would love to see him wave bye-bye and walk out but that isn't practical or likely to do anything but hurt his family. I'll deal with a lot to look after my family.

Now having said that cg it is time to start plotting a strategy that will work for you....find another job and run...sign up for a long term locums job...whatever gets you out of the mess you are in while letting you take care of your personal responsibilities. In the mean time chin up..take good care of your patients..show pride in your work even if the job stinks. Move on when you can.

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I'm gonna see how the actual office works and speak with my actual doc and office manager before I make any decisions.

I don't mean to stray from the topic of this post, but you mean you started training but you haven't actually spoken with your direct office manager or worked with your SP? I implore you to please get acquainted with these individuals ASAP.

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I know there were PAs- not on this forum, I mean- who felt I was doing a disservice to the profession by doing a residency straight out of school.  To those people I said "screw them"- I made the decision that was best for me, and it paid off incredible dividends and continues to do so.

 

Just like Kevin Durant made the move that was best for him.  

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Slightly off topic but:

 

My first job right out of school was just like the "no support staff" guy in the other thread. I had a one room fast track in an inner city poor community hospital ER. I was the PA and the nurse for everyone. I also only saw the physician if I needed any help.  It was brutal but a great learning experience for my first year doing all the 'nursing tasks' as well--especially since I did not have much experience before PA school ( I was a pilot) . After that first year, I left and found a job in a rural ER and have been working full spectrum EM for the past 5 years pretty much autonomously.

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As a chronic complainer about people working low paying positions, I am now also of the belief that those employers will be in a perpetual state of finding another candidate. I say let them (the employers) suffer their poor choices. I guarantee they are fully aware of what they are doing. They just don't care. Never will. If I apply/inquire about a position, I immediately know what kind of place it is, as soon as pay is discussed.

If the new grads are willing to accept the $70k stuff, then move on after six to twelve months because they realize it sucks, clearing the path for the next wave, so be it. No sweat off my bag (as my stepfather used to say). The places that truly understand our value, aren't looking for the headache of trying to fill a position every six months, and therefore hire accordingly. These are the jobs that many of us lifers pick up. In contrast, "Joe's Family Practice, Beauty Salon, and Tire Shop" is NOT going to start offering $120k/yr just because we are pressuring the youngsters to tell him to pound sand at the $70k level. He will find his mark, the mark will get some experience, and the world will keep spinning.

The above will not stop me from pointing out to the underpaid and abused, the fact that they are underpaid and abused. What they do with the advice is up to them.

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I know there were PAs- not on this forum, I mean- who felt I was doing a disservice to the profession by doing a residency straight out of school.  To those people I said "screw them"- I made the decision that was best for me, and it paid off incredible dividends and continues to do so.

 

Just like Kevin Durant made the move that was best for him.  

 

don't think anyone here would agree with "doing a residency out of school is a bad thing"

 

in fact most us support it!   

 

And as demonstrated by your experience it helps!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

My first job out of school was in physiatry and paid 140k with bonus... Though I learned a lot in ortho/spine/pain med which I use to this day and has set me up above some of my colleagues (even md/do) with regards to ortho, pain, spine, injections etc. The job was horrible. The SP was a slave driver and the office was a mess.

 

We had MAs turnover every 3 weeks! (no joke). And I didnt even have a desk or a phone. I left after 6 mos and found better happiness at a job that paid 95k in GI, then I opened an im/HIV practice with a buddy who is a MD and got paid 50% what I make now as a 0.8FTE in FP at my current shop but had so much more autonomy and had the best relationship I've ever had with a SP/CP. I make much more now (going on past 7yrs in practice) at a larger corporate facility but I have much less autonomy but I enjoy 4 day work weeks and higher pay and other perks like no call and even not having a panel of my own (share one with CP/SP).

 

My point is that early on our careers we can make some mistakes. I think a new grad should focus on learning as much as they can the first 3 years and then pick their jobs after.

 

Disclaimer: I may or may not have endorsed the practices that OP pointed out on their post (discouraging new grads b/c of $ etc) in the past... After 2k posts I dunno what the hell I posted last week let alone 7 yrs ago lol ????

 

But that's the great thing about this forum, it's like a buffet. Ppl can take and leave what's offered...

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

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  • 2 weeks later...

PAs are going to soon understand why doctors have fought for so long to keep the number of residency spots down.  When supply and demand in our profession flip flops(don't forget NP programs are gushing out new grads as well), you are going to see our salaries go down, job requirements go up, and the amount of crap work foisted on us increase.  And new grads will be especially hard hit when you see the number of years experience requirement continue to creep up.  I rarely see "will consider new grads" in job listings anymore.

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