An Open Letter to All PAs: The Time Has Come for a Professional Name Change

[CAdamsPAC]

there are several other "associate" programs out there, total 5 or so. stanford and others.

what I want to know is why isn't the world doesn't end every time a pa at yale new haven says, "hi' I'm tom one of the physician associates here".

 

 

The same reason all's well in the world when I identified myself as a Physician Assistant. BTW in my 18 years at YNHH, I don't recall my title as ever being an issue with patients, families or physicians. My lab coats purchased by me were embroidered with my name and my Physician Assistant title on them.

The hospital required that I be a graduate of an accredited Physician Assistant Program, be certified by the National Commission on the Certification of Physician Assistants and maintain my Connecticut Physician Assistant license to be employed. So much for how important to YNHH the title Physician Associate versus Physician Assistant is . To paraphrase Eli Wallach , " Associate title? I don't need no stinking Associate title!".:;;D:

[EMEDPA]

and yet the world continues to spin, pa's there get their bills paid by insurance companies, the state medical board has not crushed them into dust, etc

[EMEDPA]

The same reason all's well in the world when I identified myself as a Physician Assistant. BTW in my 18 years at YNHH, I don't recall my title as ever being an issue with patients, families or physicians. My lab coats purchased by me were embroidered with my name and my Physician Assistant title on them.

The hospital required that I be a graduate of an accredited Physician Assistant Program, be certified by the National Commission on the Certification of Physician Assistants and maintain my Connecticut Physician Assistant license to be employed. So much for how important to YNHH the title Physician Associate versus Physician Assistant is . To paraphrase Eli Wallach , " Associate title? I don't need no stinking Associate title!".:;;D:

but at least you had the option. that's all we are asking for, not a mandatory change. I fully support anyone who wants to continue being called a physician assistant as long as I can call myself a physician associate. it's not the pts that I actually get to see who care about the title, it's the ones who refuse to see "just an assistant" who would be more than willing to see an "associate" (and this is a bigger # than you think) that I care about. I can hear the comments walking down the hall of the hospital from pts all the time" I had to see an assistant again. I wish I could at least see someone who went to college for a change...:, etc

[CAdamsPAC]

Adams, do you happen to know the CT legislation? What I mean is, is associate and assistant both used in regards to our practicing rights? If not, do you know how Yale and its hospital can go about using (and training for that matter) Associate officially? Figuring this out might help us discover a loop-hole of sorts. For example, how does Yale train phys assoc who are "actually" phys asst. that upon completion of the program can sit for the PANCE? This whole thing is very interesting and intriguing.

 

 

I can't answer that question since it's one that I've never felt compelled to research. What I do know is YNHH isn't part of Yale although some Yale PA students do rotations there and some of the PA program faculty practice there also.

[CAdamsPAC]

but at least you had the option. that's all we are asking for, not a mandatory change. I fully support anyone who wants to continue being called a physician assistant as long as I can call myself a physician associate.

 

I hope you don't think that I object to you calling yourself a Physician Associate. My position is that my title is really doesn't matter since it makes no difference in what I do and how I care for my patients. I'm just tired of hearing those who think it does and changing my title will result in some improvement in my clinical practice.

[Corleone]

Stop the presses!!! OMG! Did you all not realize? CAdamsPAC has no problem being called Physician Assistant! So why oh why is everyone trying to get the name changed back to its original title and the title which more clearly defines our profession? Are you all nuts? Duh! CAdamsPAC is fine! The rest of you can just relax. It's not always about the profession as a whole...it's all about CAdamsPAC and every other selfish, incompetent PA who just thinks about themselves. Get with the program!

[USN2UNC]

it's all about CAdamsPAC and every other selfish, incompetent PA who just thinks about themselves.

 

Whoa, let's calm down on the personal attacks. Especially on someone who has been contributing to this forum for a lot longer than you sir. I know you have a difference in opinion but I wouldn't think that makes him incompetent.

[kayakr]

Whew! This is quite a discussion....up to 309 posts! I see lots of constructive debate and ideas flying around which is great. At risk of dumbing the discussion down, I wanted to throw an anecdotal reason out there for why I, even as just a soon to be PA-S, would like to see a name change. I'm not going to lie about it or try to be too politically correct.... I do suspect many people, myself included, do see it as bit of a pride thing, although many are afraid to say it at risk of sounding arrogant. People work very hard in PA school (or at least I've been told and am expecting to find out) and PA's roles and responsibilities are significant and they want to feel accomplished and proud for who they are and what they are capable of...it's only human nature. I think that this "story" of mine solidifies the "pro-associate" stance to a substantial degree. On to the story...

 

I recently accompanied my father to a spine-orthopedics office for an initial visit for a herniated disc which required surgery. After someone (no idea who) brought us into the exam room and we sat for a few minutes, a pleasant young man wearing casual business dress and a name tag on a lanyard (which was swaying around too much/flipped backward too often to get a look at) says "Hi, my name is XXXX - I am one of the assistants here and just need to get a few questions from you and take a quick look at you". He goes on to ask some basic history details, takes some vitals, etc, and says "thank you - the doctor will be in to see you shortly". After he leaves, my father in making small talk while waiting says "so is that what you are going to be doing?". My father has not had many significant chronic illnesses, but he is elderly and has been under medical care for one reason or another for many years (i.e. he's not brand-new to being a patient) and he had no idea that the person we just talked to was a medical assistant, not a physician assistant...he thought they were one in the same and/or was confused about the difference. Ironically, there was actually a PA in the office, but she was seeing other patients like the doctor was!

 

This exact scenario is my biggest hang up about the current name. Not trying to marginalize MAs roles, but it's a far cry (at least I hope) from what PAs know and do on a daily basis. I think people will be confused for many, many more years to come about what mid-level's abilities are and what they do, regardless of what names are chosen - but it must get very tiring to keep getting confused with medical assistants. If we can't get the PA name changed, how hard would it be to get the medical assistant named changed to prevent some of the confusion between the two roles? In social situations, with people who are confused like my father was, you are going to look pretty arrogant when you try to explain to people what you do as a PA when in reality they are picturing an MA in their minds (in other words, they aren't going to believe you and think you are just full of hot air). Do I think the name will ultimately change the way I practice or how well I care for my patients? Absolutely not. Do I think there are many other topics in healthcare that need attention? Of course. But regardless, we can't solve all of the worlds problems in one day and this issue is important to many hard-working people. I understand there are a ton of legalities involved, but we can put people on the moon (many years ago in fact), save people's lives from diseases that ravaged society a mere few years ago....I find it hard to believe that something like a simple name change can be so hard that it is not at least worth trying for. PAs work hard for their money and try to do their best to serve society. Wouldn't it be nice if people at least could tell you apart from all of the other healthcare providers and at least have a general idea of where you fit into the big picture?

 

Stepping off soapbox for now...sorry if your eyeballs are burning. Thanks for tuning in.

[CAdamsPAC]

Stop the presses!!! OMG! Did you all not realize? CAdamsPAC has no problem being called Physician Assistant! So why oh why is everyone trying to get the name changed back to its original title and the title which more clearly defines our profession? Are you all nuts? Duh! CAdamsPAC is fine! The rest of you can just relax. It's not always about the profession as a whole...it's all about CAdamsPAC and every other selfish, incompetent PA who just thinks about themselves. Get with the program!

 

 

Hey lightweight what program are you talking about? I invite you to join me out here in the Aleutians during a winter storm with 70mph winds to run the code or stabilize the MI or hemodynamically unstable UGIB while trying to get a Coast Guard helo in with the first light.Better yet come on out and deal with these ill patients in a community that hasn't had a flight able to get in for 8-17 days due to severe weather. My SP 800+ miles away is more than willing to discuss my competency with the likes of some newbie PA in the burbs who can't function well without worring over his title. Come back and try to stand in my shadow when you've done 1/2 of what I've accomplished in my 23 years of practice as a PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT. I'm called Clark by my patients , my title isn't important to them, the fact that I'm here to help them and they have witnessed me save a life or two is what they are concerned about,OK Bucko?

[kayakr]

Oh crap...maybe this wasn't a good time to add my previous post. I think I'm stuck between sparring sides on the verge of WWIII (tyring to duck and cover). Although, I think I must say that CAdamsPAC is now ahead by one point.....[uses humor to try to diffuse situation]

[istat2]

Corleone,

You've made some pretty ugly accusations. Care to try to support them? This kind of rhetoric is unnecessary. Just for your edification I happen to be very good friends with Adams SP. He does not tolerate the incompetent or self centered individuals. I've also functioned out in the chain, and have recovered patients from where Adams practices. Try walking in his shoes for a bit before making baseless accusations.

[EMEDPA]

I fully support adams and his scope of practice and accomplishments regardless of the fact that we disagree on the title issue. he is a pa superstud regardless of what the letters stand for....

I hope someday to have a job as good as the one that he has now....and to do as well at it....

[Hemegroup]

Hey lightweight what program are you talking about? I invite you to join me out here in the Aleutians during a winter storm with 70mph winds to run the code or stabilize the MI or hemodynamically unstable UGIB while trying to get a Coast Guard helo in with the first light.Better yet come on out and deal with these ill patients in a community that hasn't had a flight able to get in for 8-17 days due to severe weather. My SP 800+ miles away is more than willing to discuss my competency with the likes of some newbie PA in the burbs who can't function well without worring over his title. Come back and try to stand in my shadow when you've done 1/2 of what I've accomplished in my 23 years of practice as a PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT. I'm called Clark by my patients , my title isn't important to them, the fact that I'm here to help them and they have witnessed me save a life or two is what they are concerned about,OK Bucko?

 

You of all people deserve the name change.

 

(unless of course a DNP becomes your supervisor, and your title is changed to NPA ...)

[CAdamsPAC]

I fully support adams and his scope of practice and accomplishments regardless of the fact that we disagree on the title issue. he is a pa superstud regardless of what the letters stand for....

I hope someday to have a job as good as the one that he has now....and to do as well at it....

 

 

I thank all of you for your accolades , I am just a Grunt PA trying to do good medicine out on the edge of the earth. I am a firm believer in all PAs speaking their minds and have no problem with someone not being in full agreement with me. I only ask that should someone feel compelled to trash me personally, the others on the forum bear with my inevitable un-gentlemanlike response.

Keep fighting for your beliefs ,the profession wouldn't exist if there hadn't been folks willing to tangle with the establishment.

[rcdavis]

For the record and what whatever my opinion counts for, unless corleone was trying for humor in absurd sarcasm, I suggest his characature of cadams is not only inaccurate but entirely out of tone with the rest of this thread... in which gentlemen are disagreeing pretty much agreeably.

 

A toning down of that ilk of rhetoric is warranted.

 

And maybe a personal note of apology.

 

The debate is, and has been since I have been in the game in the early 70's, representative of both personal and perceived inferences about the word "assistant".

 

Most of the older guys are tired of the debate, which flares up every generation or so, and - as cadams- let their work speak for itself.

 

That doesn't mean the debate isn't worthy, however.

 

I endorse putting it to a national reforendum, and will abide by whatever is decided.

 

I don't mind being an "assistant". I would like to be an "associate" if only due to my perception of patient's notions of the name's inplications.

 

Either way, when I do my job, and do it well, it is ME (and the profession) that the patient remembers and lauds. The same as it is ME they slam for not doing well.

 

Tone down the corleone-ic sarcasm, and continue the debate.

 

davis

[Contrarian]

Tier I (Independant Providers who write orders and can bill for their work without needing to be associated with others)

 

MD... DO... ARNP/DNP

 

Tier II (Dependant Providers who either need others to work or need the "orders" of others to get paid by insurance for their work)

 

RN... PA... CRNA...DPT... OT... DC... EMT-B/I/P... RT(T)... etc

 

Tier III

 

MA,.. CNA... etc.

 

 

In 10 yrs... EVERYONE in tier I will be allowed to "supervise" or write orders for anyone in tiers II & III.

[Joelseff]

^^ man Contrarian, I hope not! I'm just about to start out and dont want to have a DNP as a SP (or S-DNP??? soo confused):sadface:

[Guest PAintheair]

Hey lightweight what program are you talking about? I invite you to join me out here in the Aleutians during a winter storm with 70mph winds to run the code or stabilize the MI or hemodynamically unstable UGIB while trying to get a Coast Guard helo in with the first light.Better yet come on out and deal with these ill patients in a community that hasn't had a flight able to get in for 8-17 days due to severe weather. My SP 800+ miles away is more than willing to discuss my competency with the likes of some newbie PA in the burbs who can't function well without worring over his title. Come back and try to stand in my shadow when you've done 1/2 of what I've accomplished in my 23 years of practice as a PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT. I'm called Clark by my patients , my title isn't important to them, the fact that I'm here to help them and they have witnessed me save a life or two is what they are concerned about,OK Bucko?

 

The Aleutians, eh? That explains a lot. I'll have the isolation syndrome with the seasonal affective disorder, and, oh, would you mind throwing in a side of narcissism? Are you serious, son? Stabilize the MI and the GI bleed. Basic stuff. ACLS and large bore IVs. Doesn't take a rocket scientist and I guarantee you every one of us has that ability. And we don't have to be "800+" to accomplish it. We don't need to be 23 years into practice. Ask anyone working in a rural ED. Ask anyone working in a surgical setting. Ask anyone that has been through an accredited PA program. Most importantly, ask anyone who has spent time in the active military! Elbow deep in a soldier's chest!! I'll take someone who can mange complex disease and not expect a pat on the shoulder for it over this any day. I've been lurking here for a while and have tried to keep quite, but seriously folks, this kind of self-centeredness needs to be addressed. To give it "accolades?" Shame on every one of you for feeding his ego. He sounds like one of the docs on Sermo. Maybe he should go on and join their ranks. I'm proud to be a PA. The "assistant" part sucks plain and simple. Corleone was out of line, but this is a brotherhood (or sisterhood, don't want to piss of the girls). Get along. Leave the scare tactics and machoism for the playground. The direct use of intimidation is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.

[Rob77]

I only ask that should someone feel compelled to trash me personally, the others on the forum bear with my inevitable un-gentlemanlike response.

 

 

If someone trashes you personally I would actually look foward to your ungentlemanlike response.

[TraumawannabPAs]

Just heard this one for the first time; "If PA's want to change their name to something that better represents who they are and what they do, why don’t they change the title to

"Physician Affiliated Practitioner or Clinician? {(PAP-C or PAC-C)} This describes the role as someone who practices medicine in afflation with physicians, keeps the “PA” and sets them apart form nurse practitioners who are nurses that practice medicine. This shouldn’t get the docs’ ego’s all fluffed up and it separates PA from nurses"

This came from an MD with good intentions, who said that he wishes he went to PA school instead and also hates the assistant part of the name.

I reserve my opinion on the over all issue right now, but I thought I'd throw it out there since I haven’t heard this one yet.

[DAVIDHAMEL]

Just heard this one for the first time; "If PA's want to change their name to something that better represents who they are and what they do, why don’t they change the title to

"Physician Affiliated Practitioner ...

 

Yeah. And then if someone disses us, it'll be a PAP-smear! :heheh:

[TraumawannabPAs]

Yeah. And then if someone disses us, it'll be a PAP-smear! ;-)

 

This actually made me laugh out loud! :)

[CAdamsPAC]

The Aleutians, eh? That explains a lot. I'll have the isolation syndrome with the seasonal affective disorder, and, oh, would you mind throwing in a side of narcissism? Are you serious, son? Stabilize the MI and the GI bleed. Basic stuff. ACLS and large bore IVs. Doesn't take a rocket scientist and I guarantee you every one of us has that ability. And we don't have to be "800+" to accomplish it. We don't need to be 23 years into practice. Ask anyone working in a rural ED. Ask anyone working in a surgical setting. Ask anyone that has been through an accredited PA program. Most importantly, ask anyone who has spent time in the active military! Elbow deep in a soldier's chest!! I'll take someone who can mange complex disease and not expect a pat on the shoulder for it over this any day. I've been lurking here for a while and have tried to keep quite, but seriously folks, this kind of self-centeredness needs to be addressed. To give it "accolades?" Shame on every one of you for feeding his ego. He sounds like one of the docs on Sermo. Maybe he should go on and join their ranks. I'm proud to be a PA. The "assistant" part sucks plain and simple. Corleone was out of line, but this is a brotherhood (or sisterhood, don't want to piss of the girls). Get along. Leave the scare tactics and machoism for the playground. The direct use of intimidation is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.

 

Rant on. Proceeding to digress into the my daddy can beat up your daddy phase.

I see that ego isn't an issue with you "Airbone Daddy" types, thanks for the clairification. I wish that I had your knowledge of just what "everyone of us" is capable of doing, you are truly an amazing PA . Since you have such a vast knowledge ,please enlighten me on the conditions of where I am now and the relationship between SAD and one being comfortable in their own professional roles ?

I don't know your age but I supect I was trooping the line before you were allowed out of the yard unsupervised by an adult. I served with the Army's first PAs back in the 70's and this exposure and their mentoring resulted in my applying to PA school, so please don't lecture me about military service.The PA I just relived out here wears the CMB3rd award and we served together a very long time ago. It is a good thing in my mind ,that during my years of service this country didn't have it's Soldiers dying in combat. I just wish that you didn't seem to glory in the experience of treating Soldiers injuries. I've seen and treated my share of injured Soldiers in training situations unfortunately some didn't survive ,so your experience isn't a singular event.

You know nothing of my years in ED and Nephrology and Internal Medicine managing "complex " conditions ,but more to the point competence was not an element of this thread until Corleone felt complled to attack not just my ability but that of other PAs not in support of this change movement , people that he knows nothing about. Since you have chosen to join the ranks of the illinformed , I suggest that you also need to have more factual knowledge of who you elect to denigrate before doing so.

BTW please tell me about the two things that do fall from the sky? :-)

 

Rant off and feel free to return to the subject of the thread or start you own my daddy can beat up yours thread.

[huskymed]

Rant off and feel free to return to the subject of the thread or start you own my daddy can beat up yours thread.

 

I agree. Can we leave the mine's faster than yours for another thread? It really does detract from the discussion at hand.

[huskymed]

This actually made me laugh out loud! :)

 

Made me laugh too!!