istat2 Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 :;;D:Hey Anderson, stop messing with the spin.:heheh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorp Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 this "rogue site" has almost 30,000 members, most of whom favor the name change( we have had 2 polls here with 85%+ in favor).in addition most posters on clinician 1 and sdn favor the name change...and oh yeah, the almost 3000 folks who have signed on to the facebook page..even steve hanson admits that the majority of pa's are in favor, just like folks favor lower taxes(see his first post here). all we are asking for is this: 1.a poll of all aapa members to see what the real % is across all specialties and in all locations. 2. the ability to make a separate donation to the aapa IN ADDITION TO OUR REGULAR DUES to fund this effort or a PR campaign( which for the life of me I can't see why aapa has never funded but yet funds stuff no one cares about specific to one issue which few pa's are affected by for example the ability to get a late term abortion). As someone from the outside looking in, these requests seem reasonable. Maybe I have missed it in the many pages of this thread, but why will the leaders of these PA associations not survey their members to ensure that they are truly representing their views? It seems as though the leadership is dismissing the name change discussion based on their views (that are the official policy of the AAPA apparently). Shouldn't these organizations be representing the views of all PAs and not the personal views of the leadership? And if so, then what is the harm in surveying the members? If it turns out that most are not in favor, then it should provide you (the PA association leadership) solid evidence to end the name change discussion. If you claim that PAs really don't want it, show us. Have I missed something here or does this not seem like a rational step to take just as others have suggested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakr Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 Even the website ads are supporting evidence for this argument! :) They must be keyword driven, so I'll admit that there is likely no "logical" thought in them, but just signing into the PA forum resulted in the following ads displayed...they caught my eye because they are nearly alternating ads between MAs and PAs (see copy and paste below). Not sure exactly why, but this stuck a chord with me today. · Medical Assistant Classes Take Medical Assistant Classes 100% Online! Financial Aid is Available. www.AssistantDegrees.com · VA Locum Tenens Flexibility, Travel, & Care for our Nation's Vets. Learn more today! www.vacareers.va.gov/lt · Physician Assistant Jobs Search Thousands of New PA Jobs From The Nation's Top Employers. www.healthjobsnationwide.com · Medical Assistant Courses Become Certified as a Medical Assistant at These Schools Near You www.MedicalAssistants.info · Medical Assistant Degrees Become a Medical Assistant 100% Online! Financial Aid is Available. www.AssistantDegrees.com · Physician's Assistant CME Flexible Schedules and Locations. Courses from 2 days to 2 weeks. www.americanseminar.com · Physician Assistant Jobs We help you find a great job Servicing all 50 states www.cmrmedcareers.com · Medical Assistant Schools Become Certified as a Medical Assistant at These Schools Near You www.MedicalAssistants.info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 I just read the 23 pages of discussion and have a few thoughts. 1) Regardless of the outcome I am glad that PAs have a forum to discuss issues. 2) I am glad to see Steve Hanson engaging with the forum and think it is a model of how PA leaders can engage with the PA universe as a whole in the future. ...more on topic 3) I am interested in hearing more how this issue will be brought up at the AAPA HOD. We can all discuss the issue here but that seems an opportunity to put forth a resolution and vote on it. David J. Bunnell, MSHS, PA-C Cardiothoracic Surgery Washington DC Dear David, This won't be address at this year's HOD, as no state or specialty PA constituent organization felt it important enough to bring a resolution on this subject prior to the deadline. The last resolution brought to the House on this issue was 1999. A group with standing at the House could follow the standing rules and bring a late resolution to this year's House, to amend the existing AAPA policy that establishes "physician assistant" as the official title of the PA profession (adopted in 2000, and reaffirmed since). It starts with your state or specialty PA organization, and then convincing 50% plus one of 240 of your elected PA delegate peers that this is a good policy, and the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 I understand that due to the N.C. legal guidelines, as now interpreted by the AAPA's new legal advisers, that the HOD will only be able to serve an advisory role from this point forward. I'm not sure how drastic of a role change that this will be as, if I understand right, none of their previous decisions were binding but subject to the AAPA's elected and cooperate leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Bunnell MSHS PA-C Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Steve, Thanks for the reply. I am glad that the issue has a little while to be discussed in the PA world before something is discussed in the House of Delegates. I agree with having the issues percolate up through the constituent organizations. Jmj11 has an interesting question. I will be interested in hearing how the HOD issue is resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvt Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I don’t usually participate in discussions such as this, but I’m going to make an exception. I have been involved in health care, in one way, shape, or form, for the last 41 years, the last 26 of which as a physician assistant. During that time I have repeatedly had to deal with issues of identity. As a former military medical corpsman who participated in an unpopular war, I was frequently asked (often in a hostile manner) to try to explain, and justify, my role in that setting (yes, even to justify being a medic!). Later, as a hemodialysis technician, I found that most lay people, not to mention many health care professionals, had no clue exactly what it was I did, and I was all too willing to educate people. In the years I have practiced as a PA, I have witnessed varying degrees of recognition and acceptance. The reactions to the PA profession that I have observed have ranged from total ignorance to snobbery, disdain, and hostility. Those reactions have, in no uncertain terms, been in the vast minority. When the reaction has been ignorance, I have spent the time trying to educate. Every time. When the reaction has been hostile, either patient or medical professional, I remind myself that I’m not there to make a convert of the nonbeliever, but rather to provide quality care to my patients, and I let my actions speak for themselves. I see flaws in your reasoning. Let’s get to specifics. “The title is confusing and misleading to our patients and the public in general.” I strongly disagree. My experience has been that the majority of the public is aware of PAs, and it is our obligation to educate those that are not aware. I agree that PAs are not as universally known as, say, NPs, but how is the term “physician associate” any less confusing? Is it not just as likely that the public will imagine an “associate” to be equivalent to a doctor of medicine? I think it will make the waters muddier. “Physicians who might otherwise consider a PA do not hire one as they feel they need someone more than just another ‘assistant’.” I think any physician who is considering hiring a PA will have done his homework to have at least a basic knowledge of the scope of what a PA is and does. If he or she uses the premise of the PA being “just another assistant” to not hire, he hasn’t done his homework, and should not be hiring one to begin with. “ ‘Physician Assistant’ both demeans and misrepresents our profession.” I do not find the term “physician assistant” demeaning. To the contrary, I’m proud to call myself a physician assistant, and I typically find that it evokes the respect of my peers, as well the general public. The problems associated with the terminology “…..may keep prospective applicants and others away from becoming PAs as they would not want to go through extensive schooling only to become someone's assistant.” If a potential PA student has such limited concept of the scope of the PA profession, they should be looking for some other line of work. And last but not least: “ ‘Physicians assistant’ is a generic term. It can mean anything: a person in the office that bills patients, a records assistant, the person that sets up and cleans the exam room, all the way to a certified, licensed PA.” I read this one in absolute disbelief. Are you serious????????? First, use the proper terminology. I am a physician assistant, not a physicians assistant, a physician’s assistant, or any other kind of assistant. Second, if you seriously think that that “physician assistant” is generic and can refer to anyone who takes out the trash, does the billing, or cleans the exam rooms, then I would prefer to have someone else be a spokesperson for my profession. I’ve always been comfortable with my identity as a physician assistant. If others aren’t comfortable with that, whether they be in or out of the profession, it’s their issue, not mine. The majority of health care professionals I have worked with, and patients I have treated, are aware of, and supportive of, PAs, and I don’t feel that the minority who are not should force me to change who I am, or what I call myself. The physician assistant profession has make immeasurable inroads since I started 26 years ago, not to mention the past 45, and to change our title because the term “assistant” has a certain demeaning connotation to some would, in my opinion, be a step backward. The issue is not what we choose to call ourselves. The issue is the satisfaction and pride in what we do, the commitment to give the best medical care possible to our patients, and the wisdom to let our actions speak for themselves. Lastly, I’m not ashamed to identify myself by name and location of practice. Geoff Robinson Physician Assistant Bristol, CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHAD Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 @Geoff...Isn't the person taking out the trash "assisting a Physician" by keeping the office clean? Would that not make them a Physician Assistant?...and it has been pointed out before on this forum that Physician'S Assistant was in fact the title on some individuals diplomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvt Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 OK, I can play the game. 1. I would refer you to the U.S. Dept. of Labor Dictionary of Occupational Titles, which is very specific in its definition of PA. http://www.occupationalinfo.org/07/079364018.html I don't think the person who takes out the trash, cleans the exam rooms, or does the billing qualifies. I will grant you that they also list "physician's assistant." (Same definition as "physician assistant." Imagine that!) 2. Inspite of the above, I would remind you that the governing body that permits me to call myself a PA is the National Commission on Certification of Physician Assistants. You might want to look at their definition of "physician assistant." I didn't see any mention of dumpsters, Lysol, or accounts receivable. I'm quite content to continue to play the word game, but I think it's counter-productive. I would prefer to deal with the original issue, which is the other word game. Geoff Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHAD Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I read this one in absolute disbelief. Are you serious????????? First, use the proper terminology. I am a physician assistant, not a physicians assistant, a physician’s assistant, or any other kind of assistant. Second, if you seriously think that that “physician assistant” is generic and can refer to anyone who takes out the trash, does the billing, or cleans the exam rooms, then I would prefer to have someone else be a spokesperson for my profession. Geoff Robinson Physician Assistant Bristol, CT [/size] Didn't you bring up the word game...? I can't believe you really think all patients are going to go to the AAPA website and look up the definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvt Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Didn't you bring up the word game...? I can't believe you really think all patients are going to go to the AAPA website and look up the definition. My position is as follows. The original posting maintained that the term "physician assistant" is generic, and can mean anything. It did not state that patients or the public in general consider the term generic, rather, that the term IS generic. It is my opinion that the term is *NOT* generic, and I don't think most lay people, or any health care professionals that I know, consider it generic. Of course I don't expect anyone to look up the definition, and I don't actually believe that everyone in the general population knows what a PA is. However, I have learned to give people a little more credit than the original posting proposes. It is my hope that anyone reading my posting would accept it for what it is: my opinion. Geoff Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I don’t usually participate in discussions such as this, but I’m going to make an exception. I have been involved in health care, in one way, shape, or form, for the last 41 years, the last 26 of which as a physician assistant. During that time I have repeatedly had to deal with issues of identity. As a former military medical corpsman who participated in an unpopular war, I was frequently asked (often in a hostile manner) to try to explain, and justify, my role in that setting (yes, even to justify being a medic!). Later, as a hemodialysis technician, I found that most lay people, not to mention many health care professionals, had no clue exactly what it was I did, and I was all too willing to educate people. In the years I have practiced as a PA, I have witnessed varying degrees of recognition and acceptance. The reactions to the PA profession that I have observed have ranged from total ignorance to snobbery, disdain, and hostility. Those reactions have, in no uncertain terms, been in the vast minority. When the reaction has been ignorance, I have spent the time trying to educate. Every time. When the reaction has been hostile, either patient or medical professional, I remind myself that I’m not there to make a convert of the nonbeliever, but rather to provide quality care to my patients, and I let my actions speak for themselves. I see flaws in your reasoning. Let’s get to specifics. “The title is confusing and misleading to our patients and the public in general.” I strongly disagree. My experience has been that the majority of the public is aware of PAs, and it is our obligation to educate those that are not aware. I agree that PAs are not as universally known as, say, NPs, but how is the term “physician associate” any less confusing? Is it not just as likely that the public will imagine an “associate” to be equivalent to a doctor of medicine? I think it will make the waters muddier. “Physicians who might otherwise consider a PA do not hire one as they feel they need someone more than just another ‘assistant’.” I think any physician who is considering hiring a PA will have done his homework to have at least a basic knowledge of the scope of what a PA is and does. If he or she uses the premise of the PA being “just another assistant” to not hire, he hasn’t done his homework, and should not be hiring one to begin with. “ ‘Physician Assistant’ both demeans and misrepresents our profession.” I do not find the term “physician assistant” demeaning. To the contrary, I’m proud to call myself a physician assistant, and I typically find that it evokes the respect of my peers, as well the general public. The problems associated with the terminology “…..may keep prospective applicants and others away from becoming PAs as they would not want to go through extensive schooling only to become someone's assistant.” If a potential PA student has such limited concept of the scope of the PA profession, they should be looking for some other line of work. And last but not least: “ ‘Physicians assistant’ is a generic term. It can mean anything: a person in the office that bills patients, a records assistant, the person that sets up and cleans the exam room, all the way to a certified, licensed PA.” I read this one in absolute disbelief. Are you serious????????? First, use the proper terminology. I am a physician assistant, not a physicians assistant, a physician’s assistant, or any other kind of assistant. Second, if you seriously think that that “physician assistant” is generic and can refer to anyone who takes out the trash, does the billing, or cleans the exam rooms, then I would prefer to have someone else be a spokesperson for my profession. I’ve always been comfortable with my identity as a physician assistant. If others aren’t comfortable with that, whether they be in or out of the profession, it’s their issue, not mine. The majority of health care professionals I have worked with, and patients I have treated, are aware of, and supportive of, PAs, and I don’t feel that the minority who are not should force me to change who I am, or what I call myself. The physician assistant profession has make immeasurable inroads since I started 26 years ago, not to mention the past 45, and to change our title because the term “assistant” has a certain demeaning connotation to some would, in my opinion, be a step backward. The issue is not what we choose to call ourselves. The issue is the satisfaction and pride in what we do, the commitment to give the best medical care possible to our patients, and the wisdom to let our actions speak for themselves. Lastly, I’m not ashamed to identify myself by name and location of practice. Geoff Robinson Physician Assistant Bristol, CT Amen Brother truer words can't be spoken! We can only keep doing what we do as best we can. Clark Adams Physician Assistant Meriden, CT / Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Actually, the body which allows you to call yourself a PA is your state licensing board. If PA is not a term protected by statute in your jurisdiction, the NCCPA doesn't mean a ding-doing thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toreyj01 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Add me to the list James Torey PA-C, Director of Intracoronary Intravascular Ultrasound, St. John Hospital and Medical Center, Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvt Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 To Doc Adams: I had read your previous posting on this subject, and I want to thank you. Not for agreeing with me. But for the having the chutzpah to express your opinion in the face of an apparently overwhelming majority who doesn't. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 It is cool that you guys can openly "agree to disagree"... but doesn't the fact that there seems to be a interest in addressing this issue to a significant number of PAs and it keeps rearing up every few yrs like clockwork... kinda support the notion that this isn't a petty notion and that it SHOULD be formally addressed instead of instantly and reflexively dismissed/downplayed by the leadership....???? Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 It is cool that you guys can openly "agree to disagree"... but doesn't the fact that there seems to be a interest in addressing this issue to a significant number of PAs and it keeps rearing up every few yrs like clockwork... kinda support the notion that this isn't a petty notion and that it SHOULD be formally addressed instead of instantly and reflexively dismissed/downplayed by the leadership....???? Contrarian "C", I'm not dismissing others concerns , I'm just stating that this issue isn't an issue in my opinion. Should "the powers that be" embark on a path to make this title change I suspect this won't change the minds of "the loyal opposition". I'll just keep on doing what I do, no matter what I'm called or titled!:heheh::wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 C... Didn't suggest that YOU were dismissing the idea and frankly don't really care if you were... as YOU're NOT the "leadership"... My point...??? As a individual PA... you SHOULD stand on your individual opinion and act in ways that support it... but as a "representative" with constituents... it would seem that you SHOULD be acting in ways that support them regardless of your PERSONAL opinion. So the above post wasn't directed at you my brother... it was directed at the "leadership" that appears to be acting or NOT acting based upon personal/individual opinion/position versus acting on a issue that is CLEARLY important to a significant number of PAs. To be clear... I'm NOT suggesting that the MAJORITY of PAs support the notion of a name change. I'm suggesting that it is the DUTY of the leadership to put it "on the table" and let the entire profession decide versus reflexively dismissing the idea with responses about "better things to spend time/money on." Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 C...Didn't suggest that YOU were dismissing the idea and frankly don't really care if you were... as YOU're NOT the "leadership"... My point...??? As a individual PA... you SHOULD stand on your individual opinion and act in ways that support it... but as a "representative" with constituents... it would seem that you SHOULD be acting in ways that support them regardless of your PERSONAL opinion. So the above post wasn't directed at you my brother... it was directed at the "leadership" that appears to be acting or NOT acting based upon personal/individual opinion/position versus acting on a issue that is CLEARLY important to a significant number of PAs. To be clear... I'm NOT suggesting that the MAJORITY of PAs support the notion of a name change. I'm suggesting that it is the DUTY of the leadership to put it "on the table" and let the entire profession decide versus reflexively dismissing the idea with responses about "better things to spend time/money on." Contrarian "C" I'm cool with your position. I'll just keep on "Going Rouge" on the issue here on the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvt Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Here is the survey on the topic: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/N72QBB7 (This is not a PA Forum created survey, yet an external link) I went to the web site to try to get results on the survery, but didn't find a way to access the results. Can anyone give me updated results, including statistics on how many participated? (I'm particularly interested in that number.) Or tell me how to access? Geoff Robinson PAC Bristol, CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestnacho Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Yale changed the name of the program on their site to "Physician Associtate" :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmostDone2011 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Yale changed the name of the program on their site to "Physician Associtate" :P they didnt its always been called that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookspa Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 advance PA had the topic in their last issue. numberof respondents was not noted by this reader but the percentage of PAs wanting the change to P Associate was 70% with 12 or 15 % against angd the others not caring to comment. overwhelming is the word that comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eze8923 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 hate to add more wood to the fire, but it's ironic how an informational poster about PAs opens as, "not actually an assistant." and, just in time for PA week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRISH BULLDOG Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Re: An Open Letter to All PAs: The Time Has Come for a Professional Name Change THANK YOU Again for bring this back up to the FRONT!!!! jmj And colleagues for taking this stand. I couldn’t agree more. Sign me up !!! It's about time we take this seriously, especially that we really don't ASSIST anyone. Before they cloned SHEEP they cloned physicians in the form of PA's. The only assisting we have done is as a CASH COW. A nurse in the ER once told me PA stood for Physician Abuse and MD was for More Dollars. WOW Just by pure volume alone. (MD's 16-20 Pts 8hr shift and PA’s 35-40+Pts 12 hr shift.)Of course the doc's will tell you the acuity they see is greater than PA can see (???) You don't have to have a MBA to do the math on the HARD Numbers. Just ask about the Billing vs. Collection and think about and ask yourself What’s Fair. 20 years primarily Emergency Medicine PA-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.