An Open Letter to All PAs: The Time Has Come for a Professional Name Change

[Contrarian]

I did not really research this Forum before I shot off my big mouth.

Michael Funk, PA-C ( I won't bother you with all the rest because it doesn't impress you anyway)

 

^^^... Its really unfortunate that the above is the only thing that you have posted that is accurate...

 

This:

"Knowing that you will most likely lose your job and probably won't find one in the state for many years until the rest of the nation catches up to the new name change, would you be in favor of changing the name of the profession."

Is a insult to the intelligence of the people reading here. You still seem to think that you are talking to idiots at the worst... and sheltered children at the best.

 

The state PA practice laws here has every iteration of PA listed (Physician's Assistant; PA; PA-C; Physician Assistant Certified) in its writing. Adding "Physician Associate" to the list of names we may be identified as, but no one else may use, unless licensed by this state, would NOT change our ability to practice or get paid by insurance companies. To suggest this is simply more erroneous scare tactic BS...

 

Also... Its kinda odd that you approve/suggest that we change the name to associate physician.

We are NOT physicians... to suggest so would be fallacious.

We associate with physicians... therefore Physician associate would be appropriate.

We are Physician Associates... NOT Associate Physicians...!!!

 

Lastly...

This idea for a name change has gone nowhere for the past 14 years and it will go nowhere in the future.

 

This is probably due to dismissive attitudes of "leaders" and the commission/omission of obstructionist activities by the same. Just because something may be "hard" doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done.

 

Contrarian

[andersenpa]

By the way, if we're going to change the name, I still prefer Assistant Physician. If you think the name gives you more prestige and credibility, which I do not (we all know doctors who patients and other providers have no respect for), then that name would be better. We earn credibility and respect not by our title but by our actions, our professionalism, our compassion. As an example, I posted all my titles, etc. and I did not earn one iota of respect from anyone on this forum.

 

1. Assistant physician implies that the title holder is a physician. Physician associate implies that the title holder is an associate of the physician.

2. I'd guess that it was not the titles you listed but the text that preceeded them which infleunced any respect you may have gotten.

[johnjppa]

I don't believe that just because PA's feel the name assistant, doesn't fairly describe our professional role in todays healthcare structure. And please don't act as if it just PA's that have your "ego" problem. There are many professions that want to display themselves as favorably as possible. For example, chiropractors and NP's are at the top of the list. Uh Mr. Funk it's called marketing the profession. As a past member of the "Florida Acad." I know that term is probably not all that familar to you. "Still no controlled substances for PA's in Florida"? I think Florida has now fallen behind Mississippi, New Jersy and Indiana in scope of practice. C'mon all that alphabet soup after your name and memberships to all those associations. I think it's you that has the ego problem. I have worked, fought and scratched to advance my Neuro-Interventional & Diagnostic company to what it is today and no thanks to any of these state or national acad.'s. All of that to perform really low as far as technical difficulty, type procedures like needle guided botox chemodenervation, facet chemodenervation, ESI's, nerve blocks & needle and electro- guided nerve blocks. I had to fight all the Medical Boards by myself, and my attorneys of course, to practice as a PhD (Neurophysiologist) and PA. I received no help from the Boards and still today the Academy's take no interest in building on any these battles won. We simply do what we do in the corperate world when we want to change a name without making a big mess out of it...a DBA. It's that simple. We just call ourselves "Associates and market ourselves that way. And then slowly introduce the name into the appropriate fields as we see fit. I think many of the professors should look to the business people in the profession for answers, instead of beleiveing that they always know what best for the rest of us.

[Rob77]

So, the one thing everyone who seems to think that this name change is the best idea since sliced bread keeps saying is that if we polled PAs we would find a majority of them who would be for the change. Let me put this scenario before you: Let's say that in Florida, we were able to get all the players; the organized medical groups, nursing groups, hospital groups, etc., to support this. And let's say we were, beating the great odds against passing any legislation, able to get the Florida legislature to pass a bill changing all references to Physician Assistants to Physician Associate. Now, all the insurance carriers and Medicare and Medicaid reimburse Physician Assistant services, but not for Physician Associate services in Florida. So, all the newly deemed Physician Associates would probably be fired, at least in primary care, and replaced by NPs. Given this scenario, here's the question we can put on our poll, "Knowing that you will most likely lose your job and probably won't find one in the state for many years until the rest of the nation catches up to the new name change, would you be in favor of changing the name of the profession." I would bet that when confronted with the reality of the situation, the vast majority would say no.

Changing the name at this point in time would be a monumentally difficult task, and will have drastic effects, which many don't seem to realize.

By the way, if we're going to change the name, I still prefer Assistant Physician. If you think the name gives you more prestige and credibility, which I do not (we all know doctors who patients and other providers have no respect for), then that name would be better. We earn credibility and respect not by our title but by our actions, our professionalism, our compassion. As an example, I posted all my titles, etc. and I did not earn one iota of respect from anyone on this forum.

This idea for a name change has gone nowhere for the past 14 years and it will go nowhere in the future. But, if it ever does, I will, indeed, be among the first to change my title.

I would also like to take this opportunity to appologize to Mr. Banuchi. I did not really research this Forum before I shot off my big mouth. After looking around, I find there really is a wealth of good, practical information for anyone interested in the profession available here, except for this this name change idea.

Michael Funk, PA-C ( I won't bother you with all the rest because it doesn't impress you anyway)

 

I don't mean to be offensive and I say this with the most respect possible but you are a terrible spokesperson for your organization. If I lived in Florida I would not join FAPA after reading your posts here and if I was a member I would want my money back.

[CAdamsPAC]

agree- all the yale affiliated hospitals in ct call their pa's "associates" and yet they keep their jobs and presumably their insurance bills get paid....

 

Not all Yale affiliated hospitals use the title, just Yale-New Haven Hospital ; Bridgeport, Greenwich, Waterbury , St Mary's , St. Rafphael's hospitals all still recruit "Physicain Assistants" for employment . The Yale University Health Services employs many graduates of the Yale Physician Associate program that are titled Physician Assistants!

[BBOyPA]

I agree with change but I think its going to painfully long process. I will gladly sign it. Best of luck!!

[Guest mikefunkpac]

I'm very happy to see I'm not the only angry, egotistical person to post. WOW!! I am really getting bashed!!!!

Any way, I called a meeting of our Legislative and Governmental Affairs Committee a few nights ago and at one point the name change issue did come up in the context of a committee member who had seen a post on another sight of an NP leader making fun of the PA profession because we can't even decide what we should be callled. The committee members, to a person, do not feel this is an issue that would be beneficial to our profession. We have heard from only one PA in the entire state who asked us what our opinion was. It does not seem to be a very pressing issue for the majority. If anyone can give me a reason how this name change would increase reimbursement, increase job opportunities, increase our ability to practice to our level of training or in any other way benefit the profession, I'd be happy to report back. Until then, we will have to agree to disagree on this issue and I have alot of work to do on the many issues that our committee feels are important.

Michael Funk, PA-C, etc.

[DJ Bunnell MSHS PA-C]

I think that questioning the motives of fellow PAs misses the point. Thoughtful, intelligent people can disagree on the subject but I do not believe that a single person on this forum wishes ill for our profession.

 

On Physician Associate vs Assistant. This forum is excellent to have the best ideas rise to the top and have the ideas that need more thought to be hashed out further. If the idea has merit then there will be some way to discuss it in the House of Delegates to have constituent organizations to weigh in on the subject. A quick search on the AAPA website reveals that the deadline for this year has past. If this is a good idea then the supporters will persuade the majority to support it.

 

The strongest argument for Associate, in my mind, is that the title Assistant does not communicate our role as dedicated clinicians. The strongest argument against, again in my humble opinion, is that the opportunity cost of time, effort, and dollars will be significant and the struggle will make it difficult to support other goals. Neither side is wrong. The question is what best serves our goals and long term interests?

 

"There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

[Guest ESSmithPA]

I don't mean to be offensive and I say this with the most respect possible but you are a terrible spokesperson for your organization. If I lived in Florida I would not join FAPA after reading your posts here and if I was a member I would want my money back.

 

If you those of you counter-attacking Mr. Funk DID live in Florida and if you WERE in tune with the initiative and success of FAPA in recent years, particularly since Mr. Funk was our President, you wouldn't feel this way. Mike Funk has done more for this profession in our state in the last 5 years than I would venture to guess any of you attacking him have done in your respective states combined. And if any of you knew him personally, you would know you couldn't be further from the truth in claiming he has too much ego. As far as I can see, there has never been a greater Humanitarian in our profession in our state. This isn't a skewed view, this is the view by anyone who has known him, spent time with him, witnessed his several humanitarian trips to less fortunate countries, or watched him recently lead one of our greatest humanitarian efforts ever in Florida with our statewide Haiti relief efforts. I haven't seen him brag about any of his many contributions to our profession or to mankind, so I would hardly consider him egotistical. Like all of us, he is passionate about what he believes. And he has seen that PAs who are passionate and believe strongly enough in something can actually make a difference by joining their organizations and stirring the pot for change. I wouldn't begin to dismiss any great contributions any PA on this board has made in their careers, but I agree with Mr. Funk that amassing a fraction of our profession together to speak out against or opposite the initiative of your national organization (AAPA) will ultimately, if not confuse our nations leaders and organized physicians, only reflect poorly on us and accomplish very little. And if you really felt strongly enough about making a change, you would join your organizations and "storm the board" so to speak. Mike Funk had the courage and tenacity to fight for many things in our state that few before him could accomplish, and his accomplishments live on with the continued success of our organization. In my mind, that gives him right to preach all he wants. He didn't demand change and then sit back waiting for someone to do it for him. He helped make it happen, and Florida PAs are better for it, believe it or not. I think a lot of us can learn something from Mr. Funk.

 

Eric.

[andersenpa]

If anyone can give me a reason how this name change would increase reimbursement, increase job opportunities, increase our ability to practice to our level of training or in any other way benefit the profession, I'd be happy to report back. Until then, we will have to agree to disagree on this issue and I have alot of work to do on the many issues that our committee feels are important.

Michael Funk, PA-C, etc.

 

I think the letter from the folks at Clinician 1 offers reasons why the title change would increase patient care opportunities for PAs and patients.

 

The bigger question is, if PAs want t a title that better reflects what we do, why is THAT not sufficient reason, particularly if PAs are willing to make a dedicated donation to the cause through the state or nat'l groups?

[Guest ESSmithPA]

I think that questioning the motives of fellow PAs misses the point. Thoughtful, intelligent people can disagree on the subject but I do not believe that a single person on this forum wishes ill for our profession.

 

On Physician Associate vs Assistant. This forum is excellent to have the best ideas rise to the top and have the ideas that need more thought to be hashed out further. If the idea has merit then there will be some way to discuss it in the House of Delegates to have constituent organizations to weigh in on the subject. A quick search on the AAPA website reveals that the deadline for this year has past. If this is a good idea then the supporters will persuade the majority to support it.

 

The strongest argument for Associate, in my mind, is that the title Assistant does not communicate our role as dedicated clinicians. The strongest argument against, again in my humble opinion, is that the opportunity cost of time, effort, and dollars will be significant and the struggle will make it difficult to support other goals. Neither side is wrong. The question is what best serves our goals and long term interests?

 

 

Very well said!

[izzy]

Ok, I may be at fault for not reading through all the posts, but I am somewhat confused....how is it that our name change campaign has to go through Mike Funk? Isn't there a real PA committee or something consisting of a board? If there isn't, then I think there should be one. I am a PA student, but I have a strong background in health admin (undergrad) and I think that we can get away with it without messing with Reimbursement issues, etc. Wouldn't we just need the AMA on board since they provide "supervising" physicians for us? Sorry, I may sound ignorant but I don't understand what the big deal is. I just think that a name change at this point is common sense. Medicine itself has evolved, so why wouldn't we evolve with it. Just looking back at the past 2 decades (or so), our society developed a handful of "assistants" in the medical field. Nothing against medical assistants (because I was one), but the terms medical assistant, doctor's assistant and physician assistant can be confusing to patients, all sounding the same, while the actual Job descriptions are VERY different. It's just a logical step in TRULY defining our role. So again,I am sorry if I sound ignorant about this, but can't we just communicate with the AMA?

[Rob77]

I think the letter from the folks at Clinician 1 offers reasons why the title change would increase patient care opportunities for PAs and patients.

 

The bigger question is, if PAs want t a title that better reflects what we do, why is THAT not sufficient reason, particularly if PAs are willing to make a dedicated donation to the cause through the state or nat'l groups?

 

According to Mr. Funk the only people who want this are those of us on this forum. Evidently it must be a coincidence that every PA I know is in favor of this.

[Guest ESSmithPA]

Ok, I may be at fault for not reading through all the posts, but I am somewhat confused....how is it that our name change campaign has to go through Mike Funk? Isn't there a real PA committee or something consisting of a board? If there isn't, then I think there should be one. I am a PA student, but I have a strong background in health admin (undergrad) and I think that we can get away with it without messing with Reimbursement issues, etc. Wouldn't we just need the AMA on board since they provide "supervising" physicians for us? Sorry, I may sound ignorant but I don't understand what the big deal is. I just think that a name change at this point is common sense. Medicine itself has evolved, so why wouldn't we evolve with it. Just looking back at the past 2 decades (or so), our society developed a handful of "assistants" in the medical field. Nothing against medical assistants (because I was one), but the terms medical assistant, doctor's assistant and physician assistant can be confusing to patients, all sounding the same, while the actual Job descriptions are VERY different. It's just a logical step in TRULY defining our role. So again,I am sorry if I sound ignorant about this, but can't we just communicate with the AMA?

 

That is very astute of you. With physician support, a change like this would be a thousand times easier and smoother on a national and eventually state level. However, as noted in a recent MD blog entitled "Physician assistant name change rubs doctors the wrong way" (http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/05/physician-assistant-change-rubs-doctors-wrong.html), this isn't something we are likely to see the AMA or state organizations support the profession on. Another reason why some of us believe that pressing for this change could create more damage than positivity for our profession if done in spite of physician organization support.

[Guest mikefunkpac]

I am really amused that this whole discussion is now about bashing Mr. Funk! I, said Mr. Funk, am only one person. I have one vote on the AAPA HOD and one vote on the FAPA LGA (and no vote on the final autority of the BOD). What I say and think is irrelevant and you have all totally missed the point. I have been looking for a good reason to support this effort, and no one here has provided that. No PAs I know are in favor of it, and I know hundreds of PAs all across Florida and in states all over the USA. I think those on this forum have no idea how much money, time and effort it would take to make something like this happen. If you really want this, as Eric Smith said, join the professional organizations, get involved, and do the really hard work to get it done. Writing on a forum from the comfort and anonymity of your home is easy. Going to innumerable meetings with all the interested groups over many months and years, building consensus for your idea is incredibly hard work. I'm one of the guys who does this hard work and you're asking me to do it for you. I don't think it is something we need right now and so far no one has convinced me other wise. As I have said before, there are much more important issues that many PAs want me to work on for them. I'll follow their directions.

As for all the Funk haters, I am flattered that you think I am important enough to take the time and spend your vitriolic energy commenting about my many flaws. Pat your selves on the back! You won! I am leaving this discussion! I'll check back in 14 years and see how you're doing with this.

[andersenpa]

I have been looking for a good reason to support this effort, and no one here has provided that.

 

Have you read the first post on this thread?

 

I think those on this forum have no idea how much money, time and effort it would take to make something like this happen.

 

Again, show some respect for your audience and STOP THE LECTURE as if members here don't appreciate what this undertaking involves. Just stop.

 

I'm one of the guys who does this hard work and you're asking me to do it for you.

 

No, you're being asked to read the statement of advocacy for the title change, which you haven't addressed- only come out with both guns blasting the predetermined reasons why you don't think it's important.

 

I am really amused that this whole discussion is now about bashing Mr. Funk!.....I, said Mr. Funk, am only one person......As for all the Funk haters....

 

Actually what's amusing is someone who refers to themselves in the third person.

 

Pat your selves on the back! You won! I am leaving this discussion! I'll check back in 14 years and see how you're doing with this.

 

I think this is what the previous poster referred to in being a poor spokesman. Your dismissive pedantic attitude towards an issue that many here feel passionately about, and now, a retreat in the face of adversity. There are plenty of leaders and military folks here on the forum who would agree that this is hardly the actions of a true leader. More like a fixed mindset personality, who is limited by their own experiences. Whatever the FAPA internals or YOUR PA colleagues feel about the issue is irrelevant. A true survey should be done to reflect the national opinion. Unlike others, I won't presume what that survey result will be- but I and others will have open an open mind to what PAs acutally feel, not what a state chapter oligarchy deems is important or worth the money.

 

A little open mindedness goes a long way.

 

No, nobody has "won".....

[izzy]

Like I said in my original post, I may sound ignorant, but. I was really just asking questions. Perhaps my thoughts are too "simple". However, I think my facts are true and present a valid point: medicine has evolved and many “assistant" medical jobs have emerged (creating confusion for patients). My point was why can't we vote or try to come up with an agreement or work something out. After all, living in a democratic society-couldn't we resolve this in a democratic matter? I am not trying to bash Mr. Funk or anyone else. It was my simple minded opinion that led me to think that the term associate describes the profession best- but that is my opinion. If a name change is going to cost millions of dollars, I am the first one to say that it would be ridiculous to follow through with it. I just still don't see the complexity of the name change. I appreciate the link, and I checked it out, but I still didn't see the actual stance that AMA has taken on this. (Although I did see Mr. Funk’s comment about “most mainstream PA’s” opposition to the name change, and how “ The proposed name change discussed above is on a small thread on a rogue website”)(http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/05/...ors-wrong.html). It seemed to me that the article presented one person's opinion-not an "official" statement, but I could be wrong. I am sure many physicians may not agree with the name change, but I am sure that many would not care. After all, some PA programs are titled Physician Associate, such as Yale's PA program.

[EMEDPA]

this "rogue site" has almost 30,000 members, most of whom favor the name change( we have had 2 polls here with 85%+ in favor).

in addition most posters on clinician 1 and sdn favor the name change...and oh yeah, the almost 3000 folks who have signed on to the facebook page..even steve hanson admits that the majority of pa's are in favor, just like folks favor lower taxes(see his first post here).

all we are asking for is this:

1.a poll of all aapa members to see what the real % is across all specialties and in all locations.

2. the ability to make a separate donation to the aapa IN ADDITION TO OUR REGULAR DUES to fund this effort or a PR campaign( which for the life of me I can't see why aapa has never funded but yet funds stuff no one cares about specific to one issue which few pa's are affected by for example the ability to get a late term abortion).

[izzy]

Thank u EMEDPA, you have answered my questions. That is awesome. I look forward to actions based on these suggestions . I will pass the word to my fellow classmates and to other PA students.

[EMEDPA]

the interim solution is to do what I do. never say "assistant". ever.

say PA. it is a legal term in all 50 states. my CV says emergency medicine P.A. as do my scripts, business cards, lab coats, etc

if someone asks what a PA is describe the education. just don't ever say "assistant".

[andersenpa]

1.a poll of all aapa members to see what the real % is across all specialties and in all locations..

 

It would be better to have a survey including ALL PAs, many of which aren't AAPA members.

[EMEDPA]

would have to be done through nccpa.

if we expect the aapa to spend money on this we can only ask for them to do it based on input from their members.

[Contrarian]

I appreciate the link, and I checked it out, but I still didn't see the actual stance that AMA has taken on this. (Although I did see Mr. Funk’s comment about “most mainstream PA’s” opposition to the name change, and how “ The proposed name change discussed above is on a small thread on a rogue website”)(http://ww.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/05/...ors-wrong.html). It seemed to me that the article presented one person's opinion-not an "official" statement, but I could be wrong. I am sure many physicians may not agree with the name change, but I am sure that many would not care.

 

This is what I expected from "the Funkmeister" all along...

His immeadiate dissmissiveness of ANY notion contrary to his own kinda clued me in on it.

 

This "rogue website" with 30+ thousand members has contributed much more to this profession than Mr. Funk could possibly imagine or understand.

 

The comments by our esteemed Mr. Funk... made on that physician's blog should remove ALL doubt as to where his commitments lie. The funny and sad part about this is that instead of listening to his peers and supporting their cause... he uses his time to peddle questionable products (scroll down)... :heheh:

 

Mr. Funk... 14yrs will be to soon...!!!

 

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Also... After reading the article... it seems that the author was actually suggesting that the physicians "chill out" and not get too excited or worried about a PA name change.

 

The sad part was that the worst comments came from the self-centered turn-coat pictured above who still seems to be too busy spouting off nonsense in a effort to fellate the physicians rather than doing any research.

 

 

Michael Funk, PA-C May 12, 2010 at 8:18 am

As a Physician Assistant I want doctors to know that the official stance of the AAPA, American Academy of Physician Assisants, is against any name change and against the doctorate degree for non-physician providers. The proposed name change discussed above is on a small thread on a rogue website and is NOT to be confused with the mainstream PA. We are, by training, dependent practitioners. We consider physician supervision a strength of our profession and we embrace the physican supervised team model. Physicians should be in control of medicine, they are the best trained, and NOT any non-physician provider.

 

 

Michael Funk, PA-C, MPH, DFAAPA

Florida Academy of Physician Assistants

Past President

Legislative and Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman

 

 

 

Michael Funk May 12, 2010 at 3:14 pm

The very thought terrifies me!!!

If you compare the medical training of a PA and an NP you will see who is better trained. In Florida, where I work, an NP only has to have 500 hours of supervised training. A PA has over 2000 and a doctor with residency training has 20,000! Who is better trained and who should be in charge of medical practice?

 

 

Again, I want to emphasize that these other websites, PA Forum for example, are for profit, independently owned and operated sites. They are not associated with the recognized professional organization, the American Academy of Physician Assistants (AAPA). The PA Forum has had this Physician Associate issue running for 14 years, since its inception, and it has gone nowhere.

PAs need to know that they get respect not from their title but from their professionalism and their ability to play their role on the physician supervised team.

 

 

The Yale PA Program has had the Physician Associate degree program since it’s inception and it is the only one I know about that gives that degree. All others give Physician Assistant degrees.

You don’t have to worry, this name change is a dead issue.

 

Michael Funk, PA-C,MPH, DFAAPA

Florida Academy of Physician Assistants

Past President

Legislative and Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman

 

 

 

Sincerely

 

Contrarian

[DJ Bunnell MSHS PA-C]

I like EMEDPA's interim solution above.

 

10,000 page views and 375 comments show that there, at the very least, is interest in this issue. Mr. Funk's perspective is valuable because it shows that the reality of the issue is likely very different in different states. He seems to be saying that the issue, as he and his colleagues see it, is not worth pursuing. Others see it differently. I sit in a small office with a PA who does not care about the issue while I do. We manage to get along just fine.

 

I have a feeling that this is a really big deal to a lot of PAs, but not likely a big deal to the rest of the world. However, that may be enough. The apostrophe S went away and most PAs I know agree with that. It is fair to say that the rest of the world does not care about that either.

 

I will end this post as I have each time. A call for those who support the change to persuade the PA community that this is worth pursuing with calm reasoned arguments and then for an official conversation at the AAPA HOD with an opportunity for the constituents to vote on it. The original letter looks to be the first step of this process. I am certain that the people who signed the letter had that worked out before I thought of it.

[andersenpa]

As a Physician Assistant I want doctors to know that the official stance of the AAPA, American Academy of Physician Assisants, is against any name change and against the doctorate degree for non-physician providers. The proposed name change discussed above is on a small thread on a rogue website and is NOT to be confused with the mainstream PA. We are, by training, dependent practitioners. We consider physician supervision a strength of our profession and we embrace the physican supervised team model. Physicians should be in control of medicine, they are the best trained, and NOT any non-physician provider.

 

Why are you drawing an immediate connection between the title change and a desire for independence from physicians? WHO is advocating independence (aside from yourself)???

 

Second, I have been a member of this forum since 2002, and the title change issue has been mentioned here and there sparingly; it has only become a larger issue with the support from the group over at Clinician 1 (another rogue site, I guess.....). So to imply that it has been pressed for 14 yrs and gone nowhere is nonsense.