going for my third year trying. need some advice

[whatamidoingwrong]

Hello,

 

I am a 30 year old female with the following credentials:

 

• approx 4000 hours as a Medical Assistant
• Cumilative GPA 3.33 Science GPA 3.75 (post bacc science GPA of 3.98)
• letters of recommendation from one PA and two post bacc professors
• GRE : Analytical 4.5, Quanitative 156, Verbal 150 (translated to about 1170)
• top student in the post bacc program
• I had people from Admissions read my Personal Statement and they did not see anything wrong
• CASPA was submitted on August 2nd, 2013

I applied to 19 programs. received 4 interviews. rejected by 15 schools

out of the 4 interviews, I was rejected by 1, 2 waitlist, and waiting on one (my interview was in October).

 

I am devastated at this point.  All of my classmates in the postbac program have been accepted by a PA program (including the one I am waiting to hear from).  I have more experience (twice the amount at least than any of my classmates) and a higher science GPA.

 

Some of the schools that I was rejected from offered interviews to the other students mentioned above.  When I called the schools that sent rejection letters to me, the answers were:

• "Healthcare experience not high level enough" - the person refused to define what high level meant
• most refuse to discuss with me

Both waitlisted schools refuse to discuss the reasoning behind the waitlist as well. 

 

I am at a loss as to why my peers were accepted and I am the one left behind.  I also networked with some of the people who were there at the interview and saw some folks with lower GPA and/or bad letter of recommendation get accepted as well. 

 

My true passion for wanting to be a PA is pure. I want to help people. I want to make a change in the health care industry.  It makes me depressed that this situation is keeping me from contributing my heart and life to the PA profession.

 

 

I am in desperate need of answers to what I can do.  I am planning on going to a psychiatrist and get anti-depressants as this has ruined my self confidence and I am having a tough time doing day to day activities.

 

Thank you for reading this post.

 

[Z PA-C]

At first glance it appears that you applied pretty late in the cycle. Get your application in as soon as CASPA opens next time. Hang in there!

[patachok]

Anti depressants is the worst thing you can do! Be strong, leave pharmaceuticals alone! Trust me, this is not...you hear? It is not the end of the world. Do not put yourself on meds.

Think about it, you are a 30 year old girl. You are alive, healthy, you can walk. You can get out of bed every morning, and do things many people cannot! Nobody died, and you have not even failed yet! You are on two wait lists, and yet to hear from one more school. That is way more what many peopl get.

Your healthcare experience is fine, and stats look ok. You have to stop focusing on the negative, and think ahead.

I wish you well, it is going to be fine!

[NathanLe]

Please take what I have to say as thoughts from someone trying to help, not as an assault on you as a person.  

 

I agree with aiviphung; you may have received more invites if you applied earlier on. However, August isn't incredibly late in the cycle and your stats look pretty good in my opinion - I think there may be something else going on. 

 

4 interviews out of 19 programs tells me that admissions committees may be seeing something they don't like, OR, aren't seeing something that grabs them in your application. I have to wonder about your personal statement. I had a dozen people read my first few drafts and tell me it was great. Then, I had a brutally honest third party read it and she crushed my soul, which helped me to make it so much better in time. There's a difference between personal statements that leave readers saying, "we need to meet her in person" and personal statements that "don't have anything wrong" in them. 

 

Lastly, after reading your post, I have to wonder if you are coming off as desperate in the interviews that you are getting. It sounds like you want to get to PA school so badly, which may actually be getting in the way of you getting there. There are a lot of great tips for interviews here on the forum if you don't get in this cycle and you give it another go. 

 

No matter what, keep your chin up. I admire you simply for having the persistence and drive to apply for 3 cycles. Get all the help you need and good luck. 

[whoRyou]

[Timon]

Front office or back office MA?

 

What are your main job duties?

 

Where are your LORs coming and are you sure all of them are saying good things?

 

Maybe you need to reevaluate your PS?

 

I didn't catch how much community service and volunteering you had.

 

How much work do you have in under served or rural populations?

 

How are your interviewing skills? Your stats mean nothing once you interview. There's so much that goes into giving an interview and offering a seat. The fact you got 4 interviews means people thought you were good enough on paper to attend their program but maybe you didn't give them what they wanted to see during the interview?

 

Make your application more well rounded and fill in the gaps. Maybe 1 PA, 1 from your boss and 1 LOR from a professor? Maybe try and increase your scope of practice or better describe your involvement in the healthcare team specifically pertaining to hands on direct patient care?

 

Applying early is also a good thing with maybe some more follow up specifically to programs that offer rolling admissions.

 

 

These questions are for you. I don't need the response, but I wish you the best of luck!

[UGoLong]

I’m sorry that you are having such a tough time of it. If it turns out you don’t get in for the third time, that will be quite a blow. From your words, it sounds like you have put a lot of stock into becoming a PA and no one likes to fail again at something that obviously means so much to you.

 

All any of us know about you are the words you wrote, so please forgive us if we’re off base. Here are my thoughts:

 

1. You sound very intense and that may not be coming across the way you want it to. For example, I wouldn’t be calling schools that waitlisted you with questions about why they did. A lot of students end up getting picked from that list; I just got another email from one yesterday.  The very last thing you want to be thought of right now is a prickly person who is going to second-guess the decisions of their committees. For example, they might then picture your righteous indignation after getting a test score you didn’t like and becoming the class’ jailhouse lawyer as you fight the instructor, question-by-question! I’m sure you didn’t mean that but, if you’re waitlisted, leave those guys alone! They could very well pick you yet.

 

2. With all of those hours of employment and still to be told by someone that it wasn’t enough tells me something. Either it is not viewed as hands-on enough or the committees don’t understand what you actually do. At our practice, some MAs just make phone calls or take vitals, while others field questions from complex patients and work with providers to resolve them. Some do blood draws too. Either your experience is more like the first set or perhaps your job description in your application and essay needs some fine-tuning. You might in the end need to sprinkle in something more hands-on if all the tweaking in the world isn’t enough.

 

3. I remember an applicant who applied two years in a row at my school. I was on the committee both years. The first year he was so-so and got passed over. He moved, got a job as a tech in a hospital, shadowed an orthopedic surgeon in his “spare time”, and came back his second year as an incredibly focused guy. He is now a ortho PA in his 6th year of practice. Bottom line: doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. Being determined and resourceful can be the key to success.

 

4. Your essay is huge, especially with your good grades and thousands of HCE hours. It is, plain and simple, nothing more than a marketing piece to get a committee to want to meet you in person. Everyone who submits an application wants to be a PA and generally for good reasons. You certainly can write about why you want to take this route, but it would be better if you could briefly convey who you are and why you would be a good student in their program. Since this is the third year you’ve tried this, has your statement evolved with lessons you’ve learned from the first two times? It should.

 

5. I don’t know anything about your mental state. Upset, I’m sure. There is nothing wrong with talking to a psychiatrist, if that’s what you want to do. At this point, talking things out might be a great idea. As others have said in various ways, be careful about drugging yourself into happiness. You might indeed need something, but your dissatisfaction with the way things are going that could become one of your most valuable tools to making a change and getting to where you want to be.

 

Good luck!

[whatamidoingwrong]

At first glance it appears that you applied pretty late in the cycle. Get your application in as soon as CASPA opens next time. Hang in there!

thant you for your response. I am planning on applying in april when it opens

[whatamidoingwrong]

Please take what I have to say as thoughts from someone trying to help, not as an assault on you as a person.  

 

I agree with aiviphung; you may have received more invites if you applied earlier on. However, August isn't incredibly late in the cycle and your stats look pretty good in my opinion - I think there may be something else going on. 

 

4 interviews out of 19 programs tells me that admissions committees may be seeing something they don't like, OR, aren't seeing something that grabs them in your application. I have to wonder about your personal statement. I had a dozen people read my first few drafts and tell me it was great. Then, I had a brutally honest third party read it and she crushed my soul, which helped me to make it so much better in time. There's a difference between personal statements that leave readers saying, "we need to meet her in person" and personal statements that "don't have anything wrong" in them. 

 

Lastly, after reading your post, I have to wonder if you are coming off as desperate in the interviews that you are getting. It sounds like you want to get to PA school so badly, which may actually be getting in the way of you getting there. There are a lot of great tips for interviews here on the forum if you don't get in this cycle and you give it another go. 

 

No matter what, keep your chin up. I admire you simply for having the persistence and drive to apply for 3 cycles. Get all the help you need and good luck. 

 

Thank you for your reply!  to be honest interview was what i first thought.  however, all of the interviews were meet with ending comments like "you are the example of what we want in our program" or " you are a breath of fresh air" all extremely positive comments. 

 

As for personal statements, I had it read by 4 people (doctor, PA, somebody from admissions, and the admissions director) all of them said it was stellar. 

[whatamidoingwrong]

Front office or back office MA?

 

What are your main job duties?

 

Where are your LORs coming and are you sure all of them are saying good things?

 

Maybe you need to reevaluate your PS?

 

I didn't catch how much community service and volunteering you had.

 

How much work do you have in under served or rural populations?

 

How are your interviewing skills? Your stats mean nothing once you interview. There's so much that goes into giving an interview and offering a seat. The fact you got 4 interviews means people thought you were good enough on paper to attend their program but maybe you didn't give them what they wanted to see during the interview?

 

Make your application more well rounded and fill in the gaps. Maybe 1 PA, 1 from your boss and 1 LOR from a professor? Maybe try and increase your scope of practice or better describe your involvement in the healthcare team specifically pertaining to hands on direct patient care?

 

Applying early is also a good thing with maybe some more follow up specifically to programs that offer rolling admissions.

 

 

These questions are for you. I don't need the response, but I wish you the best of luck!

 

Thank you I will take this as an evaluation pre-applying in the next two months

 

I’m sorry that you are having such a tough time of it. If it turns out you don’t get in for the third time, that will be quite a blow. From your words, it sounds like you have put a lot of stock into becoming a PA and no one likes to fail again at something that obviously means so much to you.

 

All any of us know about you are the words you wrote, so please forgive us if we’re off base. Here are my thoughts:

 

1. You sound very intense and that may not be coming across the way you want it to. For example, I wouldn’t be calling schools that waitlisted you with questions about why they did. A lot of students end up getting picked from that list; I just got another email from one yesterday.  The very last thing you want to be thought of right now is a prickly person who is going to second-guess the decisions of their committees. For example, they might then picture your righteous indignation after getting a test score you didn’t like and becoming the class’ jailhouse lawyer as you fight the instructor, question-by-question! I’m sure you didn’t mean that but, if you’re waitlisted, leave those guys alone! They could very well pick you yet.

 

2. With all of those hours of employment and still to be told by someone that it wasn’t enough tells me something. Either it is not viewed as hands-on enough or the committees don’t understand what you actually do. At our practice, some MAs just make phone calls or take vitals, while others field questions from complex patients and work with providers to resolve them. Some do blood draws too. Either your experience is more like the first set or perhaps your job description in your application and essay needs some fine-tuning. You might in the end need to sprinkle in something more hands-on if all the tweaking in the world isn’t enough.

 

3. I remember an applicant who applied two years in a row at my school. I was on the committee both years. The first year he was so-so and got passed over. He moved, got a job as a tech in a hospital, shadowed an orthopedic surgeon in his “spare time”, and came back his second year as an incredibly focused guy. He is now a ortho PA in his 6th year of practice. Bottom line: doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. Being determined and resourceful can be the key to success.

 

4. Your essay is huge, especially with your good grades and thousands of HCE hours. It is, plain and simple, nothing more than a marketing piece to get a committee to want to meet you in person. Everyone who submits an application wants to be a PA and generally for good reasons. You certainly can write about why you want to take this route, but it would be better if you could briefly convey who you are and why you would be a good student in their program. Since this is the third year you’ve tried this, has your statement evolved with lessons you’ve learned from the first two times? It should.

 

5. I don’t know anything about your mental state. Upset, I’m sure. There is nothing wrong with talking to a psychiatrist, if that’s what you want to do. At this point, talking things out might be a great idea. As others have said in various ways, be careful about drugging yourself into happiness. You might indeed need something, but your dissatisfaction with the way things are going that could become one of your most valuable tools to making a change and getting to where you want to be.

 

Good luck!

Than you for the advice.  I will try and modify my personal statement to refect on your advice.  when i called the schools, the only thing I asked for was any tips on what I can do to be a stronger candidate next year.  was this too much?

 

as for my MA experience, I draw blood, assist with surgery, take phone calls, etc so I am the most involved MA in the office.  I have signed up for mission work to give my experience a variety. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion regarding medication.  I have been extremely depressed and I am doing everything I can before going this route. I will continue with my therapy and if my therapist suggests medication, I will go that route

[johna877]

Hi, my stats are very similar but with a higher gpa and more community service. Same issue as you, but I reflected to understand why. First try, I applied wayyyyy too late in early december. Second try, I applied sorta late again in late august, got 1 interview, and came off wayyy too desperate. Third try will be next year, app will be submitted april 1st and if interviewed I will not appear desperate or try too hard, also considered if this is the right path or not. I should also note that I have a friend with tons of experience, 3.9gpa, she only applied to 1 school, got the interview and thought it went extremely well. A week later she got a rejection letter and very dissapointed, surprised, and upset. I asked her to discuss with me her interview, and I found one main similarity, she sounded desperate (b/c all eggs in 1 basket), came off wayyy too strong, and did not look at the interview process as a way to interview the school as well, rather looked at it as a way to go hard and show the faculty u wanna go there bad...which in turn negatively was viewed as desperation. Just some advice to consider. Also, you must find learning experiences from everything you do in life and change your attitude to be positive in order to accomplish big goals.

 

 

[cinntsp]

Anti depressants is the worst thing you can do! Be strong, leave pharmaceuticals alone! Trust me, this is not...you hear? It is not the end of the world. Do not put yourself on meds.

 

I hope you don't discourage your future patients from taking psych meds like this.

[patachok]

There are situations for everything. :)

[whatamidoingwrong]

I must apologize regarding my anti-depression comment.  I do not want to expose my personal life to possibly identify myself. I lost a family member to suicide last year and had several other events that were as equally uncontrollable and unexpected.  I should not have made it sound like the rejections and waitlists are the sole reason why I want to get on meds.  It was only an addition to my ongoing struggle with life. 

 

once again, im sorry for sounding desperate and agressive.  I did not mean to come off that way.

[UGoLong]

whatamidoingwrong,

 

I wish you the best and, given what's been going on in your life, seeing someone about depression is a good idea.

 

Asking what you could do to be a better applicant is a good question, but I'd wait until you are completely turned down, rather than just waitlisted. If that's all you asked, I doubt that you did any harm.

 

It is easy to apply to multiple PA schools and lots of people do. Some people get accepted at multiple places and it takes some time for things to sort out. That's probably why so many students ultimately get chosen off the wait list. Being waitlisted is not being rejected and I hope you get taken this time.

 

If not, you've been through the process now and have some new ideas. Keep living your life and see what happens.

 

Best of luck.

[Patho]

I don't know the specifics or specialty of the programs you applied to but some programs have focus areas that you will need to attend to. One of the programs I'm applying to put a lot of emphasis on rural and community healthcare working with a culturally diversity population. It was plainly stated several times in their program booklet. As such, I spent time volunteering at community clinics, joined the county health promotion team that targets low income immigrants, and shadowed an NP, doctor, and PA whose specialty reflected what the school was all about. I think your idea to go abroad will also help. As for me, seeing the hard work that providers in these settings put in and the help going to those that need it most solidified my decision to be a PA. Best of luck to you.

[whatamidoingwrong]

I don't know the specifics or specialty of the programs you applied to but some programs have focus areas that you will need to attend to. One of the programs I'm applying to put a lot of emphasis on rural and community healthcare working with a culturally diversity population. It was plainly stated several times in their program booklet. As such, I spent time volunteering at community clinics, joined the county health promotion team that targets low income immigrants, and shadowed an NP, doctor, and PA whose specialty reflected what the school was all about. I think your idea to go abroad will also help. As for me, seeing the hard work that providers in these settings put in and the help going to those that need it most solidified my decision to be a PA. Best of luck to you.

Thank you. I already did volunteer hours at underserved areas (ER and dermatology), but I am in the process of signing up for missions work as well.

[Timon]

I think mission work is great. I never did any foreign aid work.

 

 

Can I recommend some quick and easy items that look great?

 

- organize food drives for shelters

- volunteer at:

- food kitchens

- boys & girls club

- toys for tots

- participate in a walk

- donate life

- race for the cure

- etc

- you can even sponsor or participate in a cleanup project like trash or painting etc.

 

I already had a huge list of these that I continued doing since I was in high school and while I was preparing to submit my CASPA I made sure to do 1 of these a month or every other month in addition to increasing my scope of practice by increasing my level of patient care and taking / retaking classes to increase my course education and GPAs.

 

There's always one of these events going on practically every weekend so it's very quick and easy to beef up that part of your application by completing some of these types of community service events / volunteering.

 

Just throwing that out there while you're waiting for that medical mission since CASPA opens up in April.

[EKPA]

Whatamidoingwrong: If granted an interview, squeeze in somehow about how you will advance the PA profession in a leadership position. Talk about flaws you may see in current healthcare and your thoughts on how you can try to fix it as a PA. At the end of the interview when they ask you, "Do you have any questions we can address?", ask about each of their own experiences in healthcare such as: areas in healthcare that need improvement, whether them being a male or female posed any specific challenges as a PA, or trends in evolution of PA practices.

 

I hope you don't discourage your future patients from taking psych meds like this.

 

While I feel patachok was a little overboard in his opinion of anti-psychotic medication, I agree that alleviating symptoms with synthetic medication should be one of the last resorts.

 

It may be an easy fix for the clinician in the short term but for a lifetime of a patient, they may have to deal with: 1) side-effects that they learn to deal with as the lesser of two evils, 2) withdrawal because they can't fill their script as their new insurance company decides not to pick it up, 3) dependence that can shatter lives with abrupt cessation after 10 years of taking one medication because the pharmaceutical company went bankrupt or decides it is no longer cost-effective to produce.

 

Sometimes, talking is all you need to cope and a therapist, licensed or a close friend, is invaluable in your recovery.

[whoRyou]

Don't be embarrassed to ask for help, WE all need to lean on someone ... sometimes

[ctstone1]

I made it this year on my third attempt. Keep that head up! Things I did differently:

 

-submitted my CASPA the day it opened

-completely revamped my PS; addressing my perceived weaknesses and highlighting my plan to overcome them

-cast a wider net. My first two years I only applied to my hometown school (year one- wait list, year two-no communication at all). This year I applied and interviewed from coast to coast. Do your research and you may find a school that fits your personality better than you thought possible.

 

 

Good luck and don't give up!!

[EKR007]

Anti depressants is the worst thing you can do! Be strong, leave pharmaceuticals alone! Trust me, this is not...you hear? It is not the end of the world. Do not put yourself on meds.

Think about it, you are a 30 year old girl. You are alive, healthy, you can walk. You can get out of bed every morning, and do things many people cannot! Nobody died, and you have not even failed yet! You are on two wait lists, and yet to hear from one more school. That is way more what many peopl get.

Your healthcare experience is fine, and stats look ok. You have to stop focusing on the negative, and think ahead.

I wish you well, it is going to be fine!

Please never be ashamed of seeking help for a mental illness, or the suspicion that you might be suffering from depression. I am sorry that patachok is perpetuating the stigma surrounding mental illness and especially depression as a personality flaw as opposed to a chemical imbalance and disease process that can be successfully treated with medication and therapy. While I guess he/she is trying to be 'helpful' the assumptions this poster has made about your body and situation are shameful, and I can only hope he/she doesn't treat patients in mental duress in this way. There is always hope, help, and support if you are suffering from depression or suspect you might be. Don't give up on your dream, but more importantly do not feel shamed out of seeking help, advice, therapy or medication to get you through this rough period.

[BARONEUS]

^^^ Agreed. Hey OP:

1)ALL advice (this included) should be taken with a grain of salt.

2)You are NOT a failure. Do not allow these present circumstances to effect how you see yourself. They will eventually change, as do most seasons of life. Get back up on that horse, and don't let them beat you.

3) Consult a provider with no shame about your depression, and respect the fact that you care enough about yourself to do so.

 

 

 

[BARONEUS]

Anti depressants is the worst thing you can do! Be strong,

 

I know we've all hit on this, and I'm sorry, but I just want to point out again that this is ridiculous.

 

And in the words of Abraham Lincoln:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

 

 

 

 

[taotaox1]

The uninformed comments regarding antidepressants from the peanut gallery are highly inappropriate in a professional (medical professional at that..) forum.  I am going to guess these are coming from non clinicians, as I cannot imagine any clinician deciding to diagnose the need (or lack there of) for medical treatment based on a forum post.  On top of that, real depression and anxiety are often tangible physiologic conditions that often respond well to medication. people would I hope you would never tell "Bill the fluid overloaded CHF patient" to be strong and stay off his Lasix. That is basically what you did here.  

 

If you are here because you want to become a PA, you are going to have to learn to keep your biases in check and be careful how you conduct yourself in a professional forum.  This is not the place to give out uninformed and unqualified medical opinions.

 

 

OP: If you need help, please don't be afraid to get it.  Medication and counseling are both great options and can work together to create some real successes.  As far as your application goes i would do some soul searching (and asking of people who know you well.) and see if you can figure out how you are presenting yourself.  You may be doing some unconscious things during interviews that are sabotaging you.  PA school is insanely hard to get into, you are not a failure for have a hard time.  Some of it pure luck anyways.