Needing advice on career change!

[reallyconfusedPA]

I have so many regrets about involving myself in medicine I cannot begin to explain.  Best case scenario is burnout.  Worst case I will be further up the creek than just a profession I severely dislike as my savings run out and I start to fall behind in my bills.  I have maybe three months of "cushion," but that's it.  I do not want to work as a clinician any longer, so what else can I do with my master’s degree?  I have been searching for "fulfilling," "meaningful" employment that would pay well, be interesting, but I'm sure everyone is looking for that.  I'm not sure what else I can do.  What have others done who have moved outside of medicine?  Medical sales?  Something in the physical sciences?  I don't want to be a provider.  Where else does my degree have utility?  Any and all help is extremely appreciated!

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Go teach sciences at a community college, realizing that your income level will be no where near where it is now.  That being said, what if you moonlighted somewhere a day every week or two on the weekend?

[SedRate]

What about first assisting? Teaching? Admin?

I have heard of a PA leaving to do medical sales. 

[Guest UVAPAC]

What is your salary that you are so strapped for cash?  The Median HOUSEHOLD income is about $54,000 in the United States... I would guess there are many PA's who at least double this (if not more).  I know I am 4.5 years removed from school and making $130,000 base salary, with numerous opportunities for per-diem work.

Out of curiosity what do you think a pharmaceutical sales rep, college professor, admin position pay?  If you are looking to make $250,000+ time to go get a finance degree, and head to wallstreet where instead of working 8 hour days, you will be working 16 hour days, 6 days a week.

 

Good Luck

[entpac]

UVAPAC - who is working 8 hour days?  My days often start at 7 am.  I am often seeing patients until after 5 pm with no lunch.  At the end of the day I have at least 5 or 6 test abnormal test results to follow up on by phone (If I'm lucky I'll get the patient on my first call).  Then I am the person to fill out FMLA forms for all of the surgeons in our group (there are 8, multiply that times the patient's needing FMLA for their kid's appointments, their appointments or surgery).  I am after 24 years as a PA (20 in this specialty) considering an Urgent Care or Primary Care job.  I have also considered teaching part time and Urgent Care part time.  I am already working 12 hour days.  

[TWR]

entpac,  You are on a fast rack to burnout or maybe a stroke or MI.  You are putting yourself at risk as well as your patients (all of the above my opinion). You sound proud about working a gazillion hours.   If you have family make sure then send you pictures of how they look.  Money can't be that important.

 

A quote  "PLEASE HELP ME TO NOT BE SO BUSY MAKING A LIVING...I FORGET TO MAKE A LIFE!

[entpac]

TWR.  I am not proud about working these hours which is why I am looking for a new job.  The additional job of FMLA paperwork was recently delegated.  I work in a large academic center.  I actually scheduled an interview for a part time job with a different department.  Unfortunately communication was through the hospital email and not coincidentally, clinic ran over into the Skype interview time.  That is why Urgent Care sounds appealing  I am a retired military PA and have run clinics on my own in foreign countries without a physician on site for months.  I love being a PA but this situation has to go. 

 

[camoman1234]

2 hours ago, entpac said:

UVAPAC - who is working 8 hour days?  My days often start at 7 am.  I am often seeing patients until after 5 pm with no lunch.  At the end of the day I have at least 5 or 6 test abnormal test results to follow up on by phone (If I'm lucky I'll get the patient on my first call).  Then I am the person to fill out FMLA forms for all of the surgeons in our group (there are 8, multiply that times the patient's needing FMLA for their kid's appointments, their appointments or surgery).  I am after 24 years as a PA (20 in this specialty) considering an Urgent Care or Primary Care job.  I have also considered teaching part time and Urgent Care part time.  I am already working 12 hours days.  

Why can't they fill their own FMLA paper work out. I would not do someone else's paperwork for them. If those are their patients than that's their problem. You are a PA not a MA.

[entpac]

Camoman, I totally agree.  This job was previously done by other employees.  That is why I am looking for a new job.  A new Chief of Dept of Surgery was hired then a new Chief of Otolaryngology was hired.  The new Chief of Surgery is driving the train based on direction from his Chief.   They have many more filled staff positions.  I am the only PA here Monday through Friday and need a job to support my family.  Husband is truly disabled.  Although I love my field, I have reached my tolerance limit.  In January I will be 59 1/2 and able to draw from 401 Ks without penalty but would like to continue working at least part time.  I see the writing on the wall.  I may also apply for a job that would involve a 30 minute commute but would be working with one surgeon.   

[WeBuyAndSellJunk]

You have a lot of experience. You are willing to work hard. There are plenty of places where you can work 28-32 hours a week, leave your work at the door, and still get a decent paycheck. It may not be glorious or interesting work, but it sounds (key word here) like you may want to ease in to retirement and a better lifestyle. A 3 day a week urgent care role may be perfect after the insanity you have been doing lately. It is what I truly valued about being a PA over a MD... if the s&*^ hits the fan, I am still given the option of letting my feet do the talkin'. 

[entpac]

Yes, the beauty of being a PA is the ability to switch course if needed.  I am truly sorry to hear reallyconfusedPA regret going into medicine.  I wonder if there was not a strong mentor early on.  I worked with PA students on their phase 2 clinic rotations in the service and have been a preceptor in the civilian sector.  I always recommend finding a strong mentor before you sell yourself short.  

[mgriffiths]

1 hour ago, entpac said:

UVAPAC - who is working 8 hour days?  My days often start at 7 am.  I am often seeing patients until after 5 pm with no lunch.  At the end of the day I have at least 5 or 6 test abnormal test results to follow up on by phone (If I'm lucky I'll get the patient on my first call).  Then I am the person to fill out FMLA forms for all of the surgeons in our group (there are 8, multiply that times the patient's needing FMLA for their kid's appointments, their appointments or surgery).  I am after 24 years as a PA (20 in this specialty) considering an Urgent Care or Primary Care job.  I have also considered teaching part time and Urgent Care part time.  I am already working 12 hours days.  

I am Family Practice, and work 36 hours of clinic hours per week, every 4-5 weeks when I work a Saturday morning it's 40 hours.  Of course, it ends up being slightly more than that, but I start my day at 8am, have 1 hour for lunch (yes, I'm charting and making phone calls while eating), and am usually out the door with my desk clear by 5:15-5:30.  I expect my MA to make the vast majority of my phone calls, and am very efficient at my job.  I am the most productive provider in "my" practice (out of probably around 40 docs/NPs/PAs), but am the first to walk out the door most days.  Every now and then I end up with a longer day - like yesterday, had a significantly obese man come in with an abscess the size of a baseball.  It had to be drained to ensure it didn't need emergency intervention (thankfully it didn't), but that put me a good 30-45 minutes behind - still walked out the door at 5:45 with my desk clear.  If I'm filling out paperwork for a patient they are sitting in front of me.  It's not even about the time/billing for a visit, it's that too often there is information I don't know and need to ask the patient about.

I am 14 months out of school, 9 months in current job.

Base Salary: $85,000

Bonus monthly on RVU production: estimated to be $10-$15k/year, but possibly more

I will be asking for a pretty significant increase to my base salary as I approach my 1 year anniversary.

[camoman1234]

1 hour ago, entpac said:

Camoman, I totally agree.  This job was previously done by other employees.  That is why I am looking for a new job.  A new Chief of Dept of Surgery was hired then a new Chief of Otolaryngology was hired.  The new Chief of Surgery is driving the train based on direction from his Chief.   They have many more filled staff positions.  I am the only PA here Monday through Friday and need a job to support my family.  Husband is truly disabled.  Although I love my field, I have reached my tolerance limit.  In January I will be 59 1/2 and able to draw from 401 Ks without penalty but would like to continue working at least part time.  I see the writing on the wall.  I may also apply for a job that would involve a 30 minute commute but would be working with one surgeon.   

That sounds like a great plan. Happy to hear you can pull that money out of retirement which is a blessing. I understand you have to support your family while looking for another job. Good luck and keep us updated! 

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

2 hours ago, entpac said:

UVAPAC - who is working 8 hour days?  My days often start at 7 am.  I am often seeing patients until after 5 pm with no lunch.  At the end of the day I have at least 5 or 6 test abnormal test results to follow up on by phone (If I'm lucky I'll get the patient on my first call).  Then I am the person to fill out FMLA forms for all of the surgeons in our group (there are 8, multiply that times the patient's needing FMLA for their kid's appointments, their appointments or surgery).  I am after 24 years as a PA (20 in this specialty) considering an Urgent Care or Primary Care job.  I have also considered teaching part time and Urgent Care part time.  I am already working 12 hours days.  

I'm 10-6 M-Th, 7:30-4 F during the school year.  I get 30" M-Th, and 60" on F for lunch to go sit in my vehicle and catch a quick snooze, eat lunch, and listen to sports talk radio.  Now I'm not getting the $130-140K (>$100K though) that others are but at my stage there is no need for that much (or the time requirement to obtain it).  No call, weekends, or holidays and an auto week off built in week of 7/4 and two weeks during the Christmas holidays.  All in a snot/cough, rash, UTI, school athletic PE clinic.

During the teacher "off-season", we're M-Th 7:30-4:00 with plenty of time to goof off or read a good book.

EDIT:  forgot to mention that we don't do any insurance billing so I don't have to deal with coding, no patient phone calls/emails, and any EMR med refill requests are auto-denied since we aren't the PCP.

[SedRate]

48 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

I'm 10-6 M-Th, 7:30-4 F during the school year.  I get 30" M-Th, and 60" on F for lunch to go sit in my vehicle and catch a quick snooze, eat lunch, and listen to sports talk radio.  Now I'm not getting the $130-140K (>$100K though) that others are but at my stage there is no need for that much (or the time requirement to obtain it).  No call, weekends, or holidays and an auto week off built in week of 7/4 and two weeks during the Christmas holidays.  All in a snot/cough, rash, UTI, school athletic PE clinic.

During the teacher "off-season", we're M-Th 7:30-4:00 with plenty of time to goof off or read a good book.

EDIT:  forgot to mention that we don't do any insurance billing so I don't have to deal with coding, no patient phone calls/emails, and any EMR med refill requests are auto-denied since we aren't the PCP.

That all sounds like a dream compared to my trauma population lately. 

[Cideous]

1 hour ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

I'm 10-6 M-Th, 7:30-4 F during the school year.  I get 30" M-Th, and 60" on F for lunch to go sit in my vehicle and catch a quick snooze, eat lunch, and listen to sports talk radio.  Now I'm not getting the $130-140K (>$100K though) that others are but at my stage there is no need for that much (or the time requirement to obtain it).  No call, weekends, or holidays and an auto week off built in week of 7/4 and two weeks during the Christmas holidays.  All in a snot/cough, rash, UTI, school athletic PE clinic.

During the teacher "off-season", we're M-Th 7:30-4:00 with plenty of time to goof off or read a good book.

EDIT:  forgot to mention that we don't do any insurance billing so I don't have to deal with coding, no patient phone calls/emails, and any EMR med refill requests are auto-denied since we aren't the PCP.

Do you work in a school clinic?

[mmiller3]

1 hour ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

I'm 10-6 M-Th, 7:30-4 F during the school year.  I get 30" M-Th, and 60" on F for lunch to go sit in my vehicle and catch a quick snooze, eat lunch, and listen to sports talk radio.  Now I'm not getting the $130-140K (>$100K though) that others are but at my stage there is no need for that much (or the time requirement to obtain it).  No call, weekends, or holidays and an auto week off built in week of 7/4 and two weeks during the Christmas holidays.  All in a snot/cough, rash, UTI, school athletic PE clinic.

During the teacher "off-season", we're M-Th 7:30-4:00 with plenty of time to goof off or read a good book.

EDIT:  forgot to mention that we don't do any insurance billing so I don't have to deal with coding, no patient phone calls/emails, and any EMR med refill requests are auto-denied since we aren't the PCP.

What type of clinic do you work at? This sounds like a dream...

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

What type of clinic do you work at? This sounds like a dream...

 

It’s a separate, freestanding clinic for a N. Texas ISD that is available to employees and eligible dependents. We don’t see students unless their parent is employed by the district. 2 y/o and >, though it should be 4 y/o and > since we don’t go off-label with meds, so the only meds for those are antihistamines and abx.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

 
It’s a separate, freestanding clinic for a N. Texas ISD that is available to employees and eligible dependents. We don’t see students unless their parent is employed by the district. 2 y/o and >, though it should be 4 y/o and > since we don’t go off-label with meds, so the only meds for those are antihistamines and abx.

I had posted an opening for here last fall and there was only one PA applicant. Never know when another slot will be available. I plan on retiring from here 9/2020.

[camoman1234]

5 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

 

I had posted an opening for here last fall and there was only one PA applicant. Never know when another slot will be available. I plan on retiring from here 9/2020.

 

I would like the job, but don't want to move to Texas. Still sounds VERY awesome and your lucky to have a great job. Congrats!

[sas5814]

8 hours ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

I'm 10-6 M-Th, 7:30-4 F during the school year.  I get 30" M-Th, and 60" on F for lunch to go sit in my vehicle and catch a quick snooze, eat lunch, and listen to sports talk radio.  Now I'm not getting the $130-140K (>$100K though) that others are but at my stage there is no need for that much (or the time requirement to obtain it).  No call, weekends, or holidays and an auto week off built in week of 7/4 and two weeks during the Christmas holidays.  All in a snot/cough, rash, UTI, school athletic PE clinic.

During the teacher "off-season", we're M-Th 7:30-4:00 with plenty of time to goof off or read a good book.

EDIT:  forgot to mention that we don't do any insurance billing so I don't have to deal with coding, no patient phone calls/emails, and any EMR med refill requests are auto-denied since we aren't the PCP.

I am in a similar position in UC. I work a 12, 2 10s and and 8 every week. I have to work 2 weekends a month (included in the afore mentioned shifts). If I am there after closing its because we are cleaning up patients that arrived late in the shift.  No call, no refills, no pain management, no long term meds for anything because, as you said, we aren't the PCP. I get 240 hours of PTO and better than average benefits. Base salary is 154k and I get time and a half if I work more than 40 hours a week.

I worked FP and rural health for many years and can't imagine going back to it again. I hope to retire in 9 years from right where I am. I may do some PRN stuff after my retirement age.

[Cideous]

Every few months this thread pops up.  I will save you the long read.  The short answer to what you can do with a PA degree outside of seeing patients?  Very little.  Certainly nothing that pays as much unless you go back and get an MBA and move into management.  It is a very narrow focus degree to say the least.  My advice is to suck it up, make as much money as you can in the shortest period of time, and retire when you can.  Don't buy expensive cars or live an expensive lifestyle.  Get in...and get out.

[lkth487]

I am not sure if there are jobs like this available to PAs, but I know physicians who went into the pharmaceutical industry in areas like pharmacovigilance or became medical directors, etc.  No clinical responsibilities and very good pay.

[BruceBanner]

As mentioned this topic comes up routinely, the short answer is not much can be done with your degree outside of seeing patients.

Physicians enjoy the laterality that comes with the 'MD'--authorship, consulting, pharm, business ventures. Not to say those are turn-key options but they are available. I know of at least 2 consulting firms that specialize in getting physicians non-medical jobs.

I have looked into it and there are some non-clinical gigs out there for us---device rep for companies like Medtronic (highly competitive), teaching at CC or PA programs, and quasi-clinical jobs like doing VA disability exams (QTC Medical Group, I worked for them).

Might also consider a low(er) stress job like college health. I work at a Big 10 university clinic. Hours are 8-4:30ish M-F, one 4 hour Saturday shift a month during school year. School year can be higher volumes (20 ppd max) but the population is good and the acuity is 90% easy. Summer season is May through September, volume is really low and you can take unlimited time off without approval hassles. Everyone gets 10-14 days paid time off over Christmas break, built-in, not part of your PTO bank. 4.5 weeks vaca to start, 3 weeks paid sick, 10% match, etc. Pay is fair, but not great. Most of us PAs make mid-90's. More of a lifestyle job. I'm out the door by 5pm at the latest. Summer 4:30 on the dot, and I take all my vacation.

 

 

[SedRate]

3 hours ago, BruceBanner said:

Might also consider a low(er) stress job like college health. I work at a Big 10 university clinic. Hours are 8-4:30ish M-F, one 4 hour Saturday shift a month during school year. School year can be higher volumes (20 ppd max) but the population is good and the acuity is 90% easy. Summer season is May through September, volume is really low and you can take unlimited time off without approval hassles. Everyone gets 10-14 days paid time off over Christmas break, built-in, not part of your PTO bank. 4.5 weeks vaca to start, 3 weeks paid sick, 10% match, etc. Pay is fair, but not great. Most of us PAs make mid-90's. More of a lifestyle job. I'm out the door by 5pm at the latest. Summer 4:30 on the dot, and I take all my vacation.

 

 

The trauma population has been very trying lately. This sounds like a dream...