First PA-C to DO bridge program announced

[just_me]

Im just sayin...theres been quite a few posters on here that have looked at maybe becoming a PA and then going to med school--you know....the ones asking about a bridge and they havent even finished PA program pre-reqs

 

Granted its not a good idea now with just one program in the works with 12 seats but in due time (provided this program works out) there will be more programs. I am pretty confident there wil be some (maybe not lots if they actually use their brains and think) who will think that becoming a PA then doing the bridge will be easier.

 

Of course Im not saying it will be easier and Im not saying that its the smartest route to go---you would have to be real simple to go that route on purpose. Im just wondering what can be done to let people know that its not a fast track--its meant for those that have been practicing a while and want a career change

[EMEDPA]

I don't know for sure but I imagine there probably is an experience requirement as well making a "bridger" seriously older than his/her classmates even under the best of circumstances:

bs/ba @ 22

1 yr for hce=23

2 yr pa program=25

5 yr practice requirement=30

3 yr do program=33

3 yr residency=36

 

all of the above assuming minimal time intervals....someone could easily be 40+ with 300k+ of debt when they finish this route.

[huskymed]

OK. So LECOM already has the condensed primary care pathway. 3 years for the MD degree with a commitment to serve in a primary care role. This is a model many other traditional med schools are turning to. Where's the bridge? In my eyes, if the three year model holds true, then you're basically going to be going to med school starting from scratch. I don't see the incentive, or the reward for our previous training. 4 years for a bachelors, 27-30 months for PA school, another three for the supposed bridge, then residency?? Doesn't make sense to me.

[just_me]

OK. So LECOM already has the condensed primary care pathway. 3 years for the MD degree with a commitment to serve in a primary care role. This is a model many other traditional med schools are turning to. Where's the bridge? In my eyes, if the three year model holds true, then you're basically going to be going to med school starting from scratch. I don't see the incentive, or the reward for our previous training. 4 years for a bachelors, 27-30 months for PA school, another three for the supposed bridge, then residency?? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

It doesnt make sense if being a DO is your end goal.

 

Does seem to suck that they would require MCAT scores---wonder if they want you to go back and take physics, calc and biochem

[ssteve21]

Yeah. . it is cool that they are offering this program, but I don't see the benefit to the PA profession. I mean it kind of takes away from the passion of being a midlevel provider. I wanted to go to med school and then I shadowed several MDs/DOs and realized that I didn't want the debt, time away from family and all the work you put in with the end result being a low kick back. PA programs are very competitive I would go so far to state they are getting up there with med schools. With that being said I hope prospective students don't see our profession as a "stepping stone" into med school, while the PA profession is one to be VERY proud of and recently rated as one of the tops jobs to have according to forbes magazine. I didn't see MD/DO in that article:)

[Metallicat]

I don't see myself ever seriously considering this. A preceptor asked me why I didn't go to med school. I think my answer to him then applies here. After debating between Med school and PA school the two main things that kept me(personally) interested in med school were 1) More money and 2) to be called "doctor". Neither one of those is a good reason to make a career decision on. Maybe I'll change my mind eventually but that's how I feel now.

[MCHAD]

OK. So LECOM already has the condensed primary care pathway. 3 years for the MD degree with a commitment to serve in a primary care role. This is a model many other traditional med schools are turning to. Where's the bridge? In my eyes, if the three year model holds true, then you're basically going to be going to med school starting from scratch. I don't see the incentive, or the reward for our previous training. 4 years for a bachelors, 27-30 months for PA school, another three for the supposed bridge, then residency?? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

MD degree or DO degree??? isn't it an osteopathic school?

[rev ronin]

MD or DO is a big difference (and yes, this is a DO program). One serious problem that both DO and PA share is limited international recognition and practice rights. From all research and appearances, an MD from a US institution is accepted essentially anywhere that allows foreigners to practice medicine.

[huskymed]

MD degree or DO degree??? isn't it an osteopathic school?

 

Sorry about the typo. The take home message is the same. It doesn't make sense ...

[Acebecker]

As a current student, my take on this is that it is good news for the profession. As others have said, it doesn't offer us much of a break regarding medical school - we essentially get 14 months off of the total training time, which is a drop in the bucket when all is said and done. We do get out of 10k in debt (or something like that - whatever 1 year of tuition is there), but again, this is a drop in the bucket all things considered. However, you have to bet that ms1 and ms2 are going to be really quite easy OVERALL for a PA with 5 years of experience compared to a 22 y.o. college grad. I won't say it'll be a breeze because there is plenty we can learn even after graduating PA school. And what's more, any resident who comes out of this program will most likely stand head-and-shoulders above all of his fellow residents. This will put former PAs-turned-DOs in high demand. I cannot imagine a better healthcare provider than someone who combines the VAST experience of a seasoned PA with that of a DO. This, in my mind, is a great outcome for those that make muster for this program - and I'm with EMEDPA - I bet there will be easily over 1000 applicants which makes this a COMPETITIVE new program for PAs who aspire to another level.

 

Andrew

[EMEDPA]

I think the ms1 yr is challenging for any medstudent, even a pa, as the basic sciences are much more in depth than what we get. ms 2 will be easier as it overlaps with a lot of what we have already done. the clinical yr should be relatively easy for any experienced pa.

[Ridiculopathy]

wow...still exciting news...i agree with emedpa...they should get rid of the mcat requirement (this is where they should give pa's a break)...b/c for those of who have been practicing awhile, they will have to review physics, organic chem, gen chem and biology...in reality all but the latter are really ever used again (in depth like in the mcat ) in medicine - well at least not me in internal med

[buckeyes]

Does this program as well as future programs end any chance that a Physician Assistant degree will be raised to a doctorate level degree (and those with master's be required to obtain a doctorate)?

[narcan]

I agree the MCAT requirement is a bummer. If one has to take the MCAT and presumably do very well to compete for 12 spots, one might as well do a traditional 4-year program and have a better shot at a competitive residency. With only 12 spots and presumably lots of applicants, you'd think they'd be able to find 12 highly qualified and capable candidates without requiring a 5-hour exam that takes months to prepare for.

[rev ronin]

Does this program as well as future programs end any chance that a Physician Assistant degree will be raised to a doctorate level degree (and those with master's be required to obtain a doctorate)?

I'd say rather the opposite: If it is viewed as a degree that can in SOME cases lead to an MD/DO and fully unsupervised practice, where's the need for a PA doctorate?

[rudypa]

Sounds like a good deal for PAs that have been in the profession for awhile.... but seriously, wait til you look at that MCAT review, it's not gonna be a fun test.

[phreddah]

I think this is a good opportunity for those who want to have more say in patient treatment, and further their education. I can honestly say, that a PA who goes the bridge route, is doing it for the right reasons. Versus the typical medical student who has no true idea of how to treat patients. The majority of Med students I know go the Med school route for money/prestige! Where the average PA has a lot of HCE even before matriculating as a PA-S!

 

I am just about to start my first year of PA school - and I am totally content in being a PA - I like what they stand for, and you get a great job, and far less debt than a MD/DO. The PAs I interacted with in ERs while I worked as an EMT were awesome! That was a huge reason I was steered toward PA! I chose PA school over a DO school, I was accepted to both. I chose PA for several reasons 1.) my wife and I just had a baby, 2.) PA school is just over 2 years, versus 4 +4, 3.) far less debt= family fun. But, with that said - I did apply to a med school, I wanted to be a doctor - so having the option there down the road may appeal to me once my children get older( and the same goes for many other PAs out there). I feel that PAs as practitioners are more than capable do this bridge -- but they have to throw the MCAT at you to give you at least a few of the same hoops med students had to jump through.

 

As far as the MCAT, it is not that bad of a test if you study for it. Buy a Kaplan book to get the real subject details, and buy an Exam Krackers set to learn little tips/tactics, and buy the old MCATS sold on the AAMC web site and do about 4 or 5 of them. I scored higher on the MCAT than 2 of my friends who are now in Med school by studying about 2 hours a day, 6 days a week for about 10 weeks. It WILL be a bummer though if those PAs out there will also be required to take the other undergrad pre-reqs-- ie, physics I and II, Biochem, etc... We can discuss this all we want, but it is ultimately up to the powers above that will choose all of our fates!!

 

Keep rockin you PAs!! I am excited to join the profession!!!!

[Hemegroup]

So basically it's just about one year short of a regular DO school gig, after the MCAT? How much more do they think they need to teach you over the course of another 3 years?

[HBPAC]

Well the ice has finally been broken! It will be interesting to see if more schools develop bridge programs.

[NewtonsApple]

I agree that this is a great start, especially with all the news and advancement the NPs have made lately. Future programs may elect to change prerequisites, program length, and MCAT requirements after the first class graduates. This first class will have a lot of pressure and scrutiny, best of luck to all of those that choose to apply.

[jmj11]

In a perfect world, where nothing was done out of political reasons or psychological needs but done only for the sake of quality medical practice, the MD or DO degree (with full privileges) would be bestowed upon the PA or NP who has practiced excellent medicine for 20 year. Then they would be allowed to sit for their specialty boards. But of course that will never happen.

[GeneticAnomaly]

I wouldn't do it. Why not just do a PA residency? Less years, less money and focused to what you like.

[moestown1016]

Wow...I would love to follow the first class...see how they do.

[kayakr]

From my understanding, some of the MCAT argument has to do with the fact that the MCAT format is similar to the USMLE/COMLEX format - and the thought is that even if you are intelligent and able, that if you for one reason or another are not good with that particular test format, you will likely have a hard time passing the licensing exams. Therefore, the MCAT weeds out people who are not good with that particular type of test also...not just the content. Take that with a grain of salt...I read it somewhere a few times - who knows if that's really the point or not. I'm not familiar with what the PANCE is formatted like. If it is similar in format, maybe one could try to make a similar argument there.

 

it is a great start.

I would be a lot more interested though if they would waive the mcat requirement. I think pa's have already demonstrated an aptitude for medicine by becoming pa's.

for me to do this I would need 1 yr of postbac coursework to review/relearn for the mcat then a kaplan course to prep for the mcat. if I could just walk on as a pa with a masters I would consider it a lot more seriously.

[Knightgirl14]

I am starting PA school next month. I also had the discussion of MD vs PA when I decided on my future. I love the flexibility of being a PA, if I need to change the type of medicine I practice, I can! I also like that I will be doing something I love, the title doesn't matter to me (PA vs MD), and I will have less debt when I graduate. By building a strong relationship with my MD I will have enough freedom with my patient treatment plans. So being a PA was the best choice for me, and I am exciting to join the PA profession.

 

That being said, I love that this PA to DO program is available! It means that people will be more aware of the PA profession and it will help the general public learn more about our role in healthcare. Hopefully it will minimize the "no I am not a MD's assistant" conversations.

 

The only way that I would become a MD after being a PA would be if the bridge had some amazing advantages. Taking an MCAT seems ridiculous if you are already practicing medicine, someone already said that PAs obviously have medical aptitude, and they are right. So MCAT requirement would need to go. Also if I have been practicing say EM for 5 years as a PA, and that is the specialy I would want to continue with as a DO or MD, why should I have to go through residency (which is 3yrs)? I think that if a PA plans on specializing in the field they have been working in, the residency requirement should be waived, if they choose a new field, then yes, go through residency. Just my thoughts / two cents.

 

It's a new program, and very exciting. I am glad to see this development, and hope they figure out how to iron out the wrinkles over the next few years.