pennpac Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Hi all! So heres the thing. I have gotten two DUIs in the past and YES I know that sounds bad and I brought it upon myself, but since the second I have completely turned over a new leaf, I barely drink anymore let alone drink and drive. Problem is, I graduated a couple months ago and am now having issues getting my license. They had me go to an evaluation and I was diagnosed with alcohol abuse, and in order to get my license I must agree to be abstinent from alcohol, go to AA meetings 2-4 times a week, probably some type of rehab, weekly drug tests, etc. Also I would have to have every job I get approved and I would not be allowed a DEA license. I decided to take legal action and appeal this, and It looks like it may be several months before it all gets squared away. I know I made mistakes in my past but I don't want to be labeled an alcoholic the rest of my life. My reason for posting is, does anyone have suggestions on things I could do, jobs I could apply for while I am waiting for this all to work out? Things people who have failed their boards have done? Any suggestions are welcomed, I just need some sort of income to start paying my student loans. I appreciate any responses, thank you! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Most community colleges allow anyone with a masters degree to teach lab courses and possibly intro level courses, at least from where I'm from. Also would look into research. Definitely get a lawyer regarding the DUIs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted October 21, 2013 Administrator Share Posted October 21, 2013 Get over yourself. You ARE an alcoholic, and yes, will be labeled that for the rest of your life. You can go work elsewhere (Pharma is always hiring, I'm sure) non clinically, but the only way anyone ever is going to give you any sort of a license is if you say "Yes, I am an alcoholic" and demonstrate sobriety from here on out--Half the money I pay for my state license goes to monitor and supervise 'impaired' providers. Mind you, I'd much rather keep my money and simply never license anyone with your background, but that's not my call. Until you admit it, you're just one more alcoholic in denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradtPA Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Substitute teachers are in demand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennpac Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Thanks to the people who gave suggestions, and rev, Im sorry but you don't know me at all and I have 1-2 glasses of wine every couple weeks, quite similar to most of the people on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Most of us on this board can drink 1-2 glasses of wine and NEVER have a DUI--let alone two. You have problem drinking. Or problem driving. At any rate you have trouble deciding when you are impaired and have made that mistake more than once. I'm grateful you haven't seriously hurt yourself or anyone else during these episodes. Statistically, we know that folks who drive impaired have likely done it MANY more times before they were caught. I must agree with RevRonin that until you own up to this fact and willingly submit to the requirements for supervision of impaired practitioners, you aren't getting a license to practice medicine. I'm particularly disheartened that your school didn't do more to address this problem while you were a STUDENT. We've dismissed PA students at my program who were cited for DUI. We've had other students who we knew were problem drinkers but we couldn't dismiss them because they hadn't broken any laws (yet). One girl in particular was brilliant through school and got one of the most lucrative job offers I've ever seen for a new grad--she trashed all that the first weekend of that new job when she made an idiot of herself in a drunken brawl. Doesn't look good in the papers. All is not lost, but you are definitely going to need expert legal advice here. Please get the problem drinking figured out. It will only get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted October 22, 2013 Administrator Share Posted October 22, 2013 Thanks to the people who gave suggestions, and rev, Im sorry but you don't know me at all and I have 1-2 glasses of wine every couple weeks, quite similar to most of the people on this board. Assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, you would be demonstrating far too ineffective judgment to be considered for any sort of a medical license: if you don't have a problem drinking, then you would have stopped drinking already after having two DUIs and trying to get a medical license. Ergo, you are one of the following: * An alcoholic in denial, * Someone who's made poor choices twice for the DUIs (and likely more, statistically speaking), and then yet has the unmitigated gall to ask for help getting a medical license while continuing to drink, or * An Internet troll. In none of those cases are you worthy of the least bit of assistance of the good people of this Internet site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 22, 2013 Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2013 instead of beating up the OP how about suggestions? Funny how in one paragraph of one sided info people assume to know someone to the degree that they can dx ETOHism and tell them to give up on their career.... He/She did not even say how long ago the DUIs were... (ie maybe the situation was something like this..... 5 years ago with in a 3 month period I lost both parents and my brother in a MVA, then I had a miscarriage of my 7 month pregnancy and my husband then left me. I made a bad decision twice by drinking and driving but have never repeated it - {and it is five years later and still no issues}) My point is we don't know the specifics and just like in medicine if you shoot from the hip with limited info you have good odds to be wrong, but sometimes you are right, but it is luck not skill then gets you there) Granted I am suspicious but it is slightly alarming then all we do is yell and flame when they asked a legit question.... I for one will let the PA license board decide his/her fate....... and instead just try to answer the question... I would look at being a scribe in a local ER - gets the wheels turning, or maybe hospital Admin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyJ Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I agree Ventana....The OP asked for suggestions on what to do in the mean time, not ask to be lectured. I would suggest you do whatever the licensing board asks you to do. If you want to practice in that state, then you have no other choice unless the lawyer can do anything. Secondy, apply for licenses in other states and move where ever you can get one. Granted, this may be difficult if you have to mark "have been denied a state license in another state". Other states may have you do less then your current state to get a license. Until then, yes I would like at teaching or pharm rep. You should try to do something medicine related in academics as to not waste all that knowledge obtained the past couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted October 23, 2013 Administrator Share Posted October 23, 2013 instead of beating up the OP how about suggestions? No. If you don't want people defending the integrity of the profession, then use your moderator buttons and delete threads like this. Nothing in the rest of your post posits anything that would fall outside the three types of users who would make such a post and its follow-ups: alcoholic, aggressively clueless, or troll. Frankly, my vote is on troll--I simply don't think one can be so aggressively clueless as to pass PA school, have two DUIs, and STILL drink on a regular basis while seeking licensure, nor do I think that level of self-righteous denial really exists in the wild either. No shooting from the hip is going on here. Remember, per the OPs own post, his state licensing agency "had me go to an evaluation and I was diagnosed with alcohol abuse". The only shooting is being done by the OP at his own foot. I encourage some serious introspection on whether this forum's mission includes (assuming for the sake of argument that the OP's story is correct) enabling twice-convicted criminal substance abusers who have already been diagnosed by a medical licensing agency as having alcohol abuse to gain medical licenses. On the assumption that it is NOT our goal to enable such conduct, I will continue pointing out the logical fallacies in such posts in a forthright but polite manner should similar questions arise in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Interesting discussion. I agree that, if you keep drinking and know you are an alcoholic, then you have a problem. And one that you will have to focus on for the rest of your life. As far as getting a license as a PA, I do know that you don't need a DEA license in some practice settings. In my state, we just got DEA licensure about a year ago; I practiced in the internal med side of cardiology for 6 years without one. Orders in hospitals did not count and we seldom prescribe controlled substances in the office. On the other hand, I am not sure how the State Medical Board would have reacted to a record such as yours. At a minimum, they would probably expect a plan like an impaired practitioner would have to have to keep his license. It is time to put your life back together. That probably begins with acceptance of who you are and how you got where you are, rather than lashing out at the system. That isn't easy. Best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Pharm Rep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 23, 2013 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2013 No. If you don't want people defending the integrity of the profession, then use your moderator buttons and delete threads like this. Nothing in the rest of your post posits anything that would fall outside the three types of users who would make such a post and its follow-ups: alcoholic, aggressively clueless, or troll. Frankly, my vote is on troll--I simply don't think one can be so aggressively clueless as to pass PA school, have two DUIs, and STILL drink on a regular basis while seeking licensure, nor do I think that level of self-righteous denial really exists in the wild either. No shooting from the hip is going on here. Remember, per the OPs own post, his state licensing agency "had me go to an evaluation and I was diagnosed with alcohol abuse". The only shooting is being done by the OP at his own foot. I encourage some serious introspection on whether this forum's mission includes (assuming for the sake of argument that the OP's story is correct) enabling twice-convicted criminal substance abusers who have already been diagnosed by a medical licensing agency as having alcohol abuse to gain medical licenses. On the assumption that it is NOT our goal to enable such conduct, I will continue pointing out the logical fallacies in such posts in a forthright but polite manner should similar questions arise in the future. Unless posts are outside the posted rules none of the mods will edit or change - this is a forum for the PAs on it, not the mods as for the OP - had the OP put in LESS info - IE "delayed getting my license what jobs can I do" - many people (as has been done previously) would reply/suggest. In this case he/she is being penalized for giving a little more info..... this info is one-sided and we are on a public forum so it is sort of by definition unreliable but we all can make our own opinions on it. I know that I am not sitting on the BOM or the PA board, and I will defer the licensing of PAs to their decisions as I do not know the state law, the case law, or specifics, or the regulations. However, I am capable to offering suggestions about someones position beyond "go away you don't deserve to be a PA" as this is not helpful and in some ways I see it as the same logic that the Docs use against PA and NP. Instead I think answering the question is a better approach. Heck our replies here have no bearing on rather this person gets a PA license. As for not wanting anyone with a legal background to be a PA - it is an interesting stance, yet I think every state in the union has a way to handle impaired providers. This is not a new thing, it is not rocket science and I do believe people 1) make bad choice that should not destroy the rest of their lives, 2) can change. So I for one am not going to "preach" we need to never license anyone who has a legal hx, or that they should never ask questions here. I do however have an issue with schools that knowingly accept students with a legal hx knowingly that they might well not get licensed due to it and they should get their accreditation looked at very carefully to ensure they are still selecting good students and not just getting a full class for the $$$$. It is very different to already be a PA and get a DUI and to have one prior to PA school - in any profession society/the profession, tries to keep hold of it highly trained an skilled workers as it should. To oversimplify - we are a country that does not crucify you for your first mistake, and professionally it should no be the forever end to your career if you get a DUI (IMHO) but it should MANDATE you going before the review board / impared provider program to protect the public, the profession and the provider....... also I think there should be a lot more use of restricted licenses in these cases...... particular around opiate and drug abuse and being able to write for scheduled meds for obvious reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 what is your clinical interest ?? find a pharmaceutical product aligned with that and become a scientific advisor for the product. This can pay big bucks at times. I just had a physician as a patient who decided clinical work was not for him and went into hospital administration. They offer year long fellowship programs at some large institutions. He feels his clinical background makes for an effective marriage with an admin career. Not having a DEA license will be hard ... and im not sure you can get around that easily ... what area of medicine can people function in without prescribing controlled substance ? maybe pediatrics w/ add mgmt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennpac Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 Thank you, to those who answered my question and defended me. While I said I drink a glass of wine or 2 occasionally it is in the privacy of my own home and since the last dui I have made Alot of changes. MY pa program monitored me and had me evaluated for drug/alcohol abuse which said I did not need further treatment at that time. The alcohol abuse dx came later, after the drinking was at a bare minimum, by a doctor who drug and alcohol tested me (both were negative) and has a reputation for diagnosing EVERYONE he sees with abuse. Regardless that doesn't change the fact that I have made mistakes in my past but my passion to be a pa is something I am willing to fight for. I would never, ever put my patients in danger and the past is the past so I hope the board will understand this. Im not a troll I just don't post all the time. I used this sit when I was a pre-pa student and during pa school and now for support and info, not to post 12938 times. I am sorry if you are offended by my situation. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Not to belabor this issue but I have two thoughts .... 1) what is the responsible of a PA program to counsel students as to future license issues ? Did they adequately se you up for the possibility this would happen? 2) I could be wrong .... but wouldn't the diagnosis of alcohol abuse apply to anyone who has consumed alcohol in a dangerous way ? I am not trying to identify you as an abuser .... I know nothing about you. Lets stick with text book and legal definitions I would imagine any medical board or medical providers would legally have to state someone with a history of DUI has an alcohol abuse history and is either in recovery or actively abusing. Am I wrong ? You might be able to get support from an AA health providers specific group. I bet they exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmood Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Not to belabor this issue but I have two thoughts .... 1) what is the responsible of a PA program to counsel students as to future license issues ? Did they adequately se you up for the possibility this would happen? This is a good question that warrants some thought. would a program accept a student identified as having likely licensure issues? The OP can't possibly be the school's first experience with problem drinking; faculty are intimately familiar with the licensing and credentialing process by necessity and would have known that two DUIs could present a significant barrier to successful practice. So either the DUIs occurred during PA school or the OP didn't disclose that information in the interview process. If it's the former then the suggestion that the problem drinking is all in the past no longer convinces me. Not enough time to prove it, and it would be understandable that a licensing board would take issue with it. If it's the latter, well. I'm not an advocate of total life history disclosure during the application process, but if an applicant withholds information that later bites them in the ass, it's not the fault of the school nor do I think they have a responsibility to do very much about it (especially if the person in question isn't willing to accept some restrictions in order to prove himself... Goes to what Rev was saying about the responsibility of this board to enable potentially dangerous medical providers to find work somewhere in the field... Why would a school go to bat for someone they weren't sure was totally safe?) Lets stick with text book and legal definitions I would imagine any medical board or medical providers would legally have to state someone with a history of DUI has an alcohol abuse history and is either in recovery or actively abusing. Am I wrong ?The OP fits the definition of problem drinking, even if you know nothing else than that he/she has had TWO episodes. One definition of problem drinking is continuing to drink when the behavior is already causing adverse consequences. By continuing to drink after that first DUI, the OP sealed the deal on the problem drinking. My question would be if this classification still applies? I mean, if these incidents were many years in the past and the OP's behavior with alcohol is now moderate and responsible, I don't think he/she is still a problem drinker. When does the dx expire, so to speak? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
problem child Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Thanks to the people who gave suggestions, and rev, Im sorry but you don't know me at all and I have 1-2 glasses of wine every couple weeks, quite similar to most of the people on this board. If you have had DUIs and are still drinking, it is likely you will once again put yourself (and others) in harms' way as a result of drinking. It is not a matter of if, but when. I am speaking from experience. Alcoholism is a disease and usually starts at a young age (ie, you can't be "too young" to be an alcoholic). You have more resiliancy when young to bounce back from hangovers, but the truth is that apart from that sort of damage, you have a very high potential to kill and maim others, and/or to be impaired in multiple other ways. Being labeled an alcoholic for life is unlikely; once you get through this jam and get on the road to recovery, your recovery in AA is anonymous (hence the name!), and it is your decision to decide to whom you may or may not break your anonymity. I know nurses who got busted for stealing meds on the job and had to go through what you are going through; they eventually were fully reinstated and now live contented lives in recovery. If you are still trying to keep alcohol in your life after 2 DUIs (and how many times were you impaired and NOT caught?), you likely have a problem, and would benefit enormously from the excellent recovery program of AA. Please PM me if you want; I can share more. Don't deprive yourself of a safe and happy life bc the call of addiction has got you in it's sway. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradtPA Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 If you are still trying to keep alcohol in your life after 2 DUIs (and how many times were you impaired and NOT caught?), you likely have a problem, and would benefit enormously from the excellent recovery program of AA. MADD estimates each offender has driven intoxicated 70 times before they are caught.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennpac Posted October 26, 2013 Author Share Posted October 26, 2013 The first DUI was 8 years before the second and the 2nd was during my first year of pa school. My school did a background check on me I'm sure and probably didn't think a DUI from 8 years prior was problem drinking. After the second they decided to offer support and help instead of just kicking me out. I take responsiblity for my actions and deserve whatever the outcome is but most people in their 20s have driven after a beer or two. I haven't driven after drinking since the last incident and never will again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireguy Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I take responsiblity for my actions and deserve whatever the outcome is If this statement is true, then do exactly what the licensing board asks of you. You made the mistakes, pay the price and move on. A single DUI is a bad thing. In Fort Worth, (after several incidents) an ARREST (not conviction) for DUI is enough for the city to terminate a firefighter or police officer, even those with 20+ years of work history. Be glad you didn't get any jail time for your second offense DUI. Take the hit, do what is asked and move on... Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotabike Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 If this statement is true, then do exactly what the licensing board asks of you. You made the mistakes, pay the price and move on. A single DUI is a bad thing. In Fort Worth, (after several incidents) an ARREST (not conviction) for DUI is enough for the city to terminate a firefighter or police officer, even those with 20+ years of work history. Be glad you didn't get any jail time for your second offense DUI. Take the hit, do what is asked and move on... Good luck Agreed with fireguy. You did the crime so now you do your time and move on. Learn from you mistakes and dont let it happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosox2k1 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I had a DUI in early '09 that was a result of my stupidity. Prior to that, I had driven drunk before (technically speaking, even though I didn't "feel drunk"---much like everyone probably has. I got into PA school in '10 and had to address it during my interview process, etc etc. I have never been a big drinker, just never really enjoyed it, but I still made that stupid mistake. I probably drank 8 beers a month back then. That said, I am actually thankful I got caught because I am sure I would have continued to drive until I got caught or I hurt someone even though I rarely drank---that day was going to come. I graduated in May, was worried sick about licensure because I had to submit court records, etc to the state board and NCCPA prior to taking exam---but was eventually given the ok with no restrictions. I still drink rarely but now I won't sit in the driver's seat even with one beer in my system, it's not worth the risk. I certainly do not label myself as an alcoholic, just someone who made a bad decision 4.5 years ago that ended up probably being the best thing that could have happened to me even though it's still causing me headaches to this day. To the OP, I can't imagine how you would get a second one because I am scared to even sit in the passenger's seat drunk now. All I can say is that if I had two DUI, I would not trust myself when I am out---I don't know how you continue to set yourself up for a third---I know you say you drink only at home, but even then. Be careful and I hope you get what you want, but just remember that there's a reason the board wants you to do all this---and you can't really blame them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raelotang Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Most of us on this board can drink 1-2 glasses of wine and NEVER have a DUI--let alone two. You have problem drinking. Or problem driving. At any rate you have trouble deciding when you are impaired and have made that mistake more than once. I'm grateful you haven't seriously hurt yourself or anyone else during these episodes. Statistically, we know that folks who drive impaired have likely done it MANY more times before they were caught. I must agree with RevRonin that until you own up to this fact and willingly submit to the requirements for supervision of impaired practitioners, you aren't getting a license to practice medicine. I'm particularly disheartened that your school didn't do more to address this problem while you were a STUDENT. We've dismissed PA students at my program who were cited for DUI. We've had other students who we knew were problem drinkers but we couldn't dismiss them because they hadn't broken any laws (yet). One girl in particular was brilliant through school and got one of the most lucrative job offers I've ever seen for a new grad--she trashed all that the first weekend of that new job when she made an idiot of herself in a drunken brawl. Doesn't look good in the papers. All is not lost, but you are definitely going to need expert legal advice here. Please get the problem drinking figured out. It will only get worse. I'm sorry, I don't mean to detract from this topic but you said that your program outright dismissed PA students who had a DUI history?? I'm in a similar situation as the OP and have been researching as much as I can... I just recently got my first DUI. I'm in community college so I have quite some time before I will apply to PA school. But I don't want to go through school and then have issues trying to get licensed. I don't want to waste my time and money on an inevitable end. To the OP, and to anyone else, is the evaluation you went through for your license common for people with histories of having a DUI? What about in California? Also, what was the final outcome of everything... it looks like it's been 3 years since you originally posted this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthehorizen Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 The first DUI was 8 years before the second and the 2nd was during my first year of pa school. My school did a background check on me I'm sure and probably didn't think a DUI from 8 years prior was problem drinking. After the second they decided to offer support and help instead of just kicking me out. I take responsiblity for my actions and deserve whatever the outcome is but most people in their 20s have driven after a beer or two. I haven't driven after drinking since the last incident and never will again. If a commercial airline pilot can be grounded while fui (flying under the influence) and later get reinstated, I don't think the future for you should be entirely bleak. What bothers most people including me is that you cannot call yourself an alcoholic and you refuse to simply stop drinking alcohol for the rest of your life. Not drinking alcohol is easy for anyone who isn't an alcoholic. IT is impossible for someone who is an alcoholic so they try to garner sympathy with statements like "i barely drink anymore" or "i will never drink after driving." Sorry but neither of the two previously quoted statement suggest to me that you are in recovery. You are in denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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