MyNameWasUsed Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I just got laid off/furloughed from my full time EM position and currently looking for a new job. I am digging pretty deep into this job search and every time I search for "Physician Assistant" or click on the "APC/APP" category, it's almost always 80% NP positions. They don't even say PA/NP. They straight up just say "Nurse Practitioner". This is very demoralizing. I'm not saying the jobs aren't out there for PAs, I'm just saying there are way more positions for NPs. I'm starting to wonder if there's any way for me to fast track into an NP as a PA. Also, how are you guys looking for jobs? Trying to find a position through all these middle man recruiting agencies is so ineffective. And if anybody know of open positions in the west coast, I would greatly appreciate any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 11 hours ago, MyNameWasUsed said: I'm starting to wonder if there's any way for me to fast track into an NP as a PA. I suggested this a year ago on this board and people lost their shite.... Doc's left us after we married ourselves to them, Admins are choosing NP's over us because they are cheaper and have much more practice freedom than we do and yet our state and national leadership just sits on their thumbs. They don't see this as a crisis and refuse to act with haste on the most basic of issues like our stupid Assistant name. The fault is with older PA's who have a career and a job and are still living in a "don't rock the boat" mentality. It's going to take a civil war and younger PA's showing up with pitchforks at AAPA and their state organization to save this profession. If not? I could see PA's working for half of what we once did and that will just be the ones who can find a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Networking, networking, networking and a general internet search have worked for me. Each hospital system has its own page for job postings that you can also look into. I don't click APC/APP or PA because I find that this actually limits the postings for PA. If you're looking for EM specifically, you can find which hospitals hire which contracting companies with a little bit of detective work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cideous said: I could see PA's working for half of what we once did and that will just be the ones who can find a job. I'll be damned if I do this job for half. So if that time ever comes, I'm out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, SedRate said: I'll be damned if I do this job for half. So if that time ever comes, I'm out. I know but if you are a new grad with $120k in school loan debt, $25 bucks an hour is better than zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 17, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 17, 2020 yup we are and they are churning them out like mice..... see other thread on the job I am trying to hire for and how almost all the applicants are new grad NP's with about 600 hours total of experience.... down right scary, yet they are independent and we are not - illogical.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, ventana said: yup we are and they are churning them out like mice..... see other thread on the job I am trying to hire for and how almost all the applicants are new grad NP's with about 600 hours total of experience.... down right scary, yet they are independent and we are not - illogical.... No one is going to give independence to someone with "Assistant" in their name......or "Associate" for that matter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Cideous said: I know but if you are a new grad with $120k in school loan debt, $25 bucks an hour is better than zero. Not in medicine! I would rather work for $25 as a truck driver, landscaper, house painter, teacher, anything in the field of sports, etc etc etc. Stress of medicine for $25 an hour, no thank you! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Cideous said: I know but if you are a new grad with $120k in school loan debt, $25 bucks an hour is better than zero. Sure, and so is $50/hour as a medical rep or clinical educator for a drug which a new grad could pivot to if times took a turn. Back in the day, $25/hour might've been acceptable given the times, but for as much crap as we deal with today and the increased liability, $25/hour is ridiculous. I do hope students continue to check job outlooks and projected growths before dedicating 6+ years of their lives and $120k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 ...or at least have the insight to realize what they're signing themselves up for by accepting a $25/hour gig... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kang1208 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 This truly is disheartening....how many years until our profession gave out and get phased out? Perhaps it's time for plan B... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 18, 2020 Administrator Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, kang1208 said: This truly is disheartening....how many years until our profession gave out and get phased out? Perhaps it's time for plan B... The thing about this is that there are a ton of new programs trying to open. Unlike the NP programs, which have effectively no quality control, crash-and-burn rate for new programs seems to be about 50%, and ARC-PA has gone stupid slapping programs with probationary status for minor issues. We may be in trouble, but we WILL have the highest quality graduates... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hope2PA Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 8 hours ago, rev ronin said:We may be in trouble, but we WILL have the highest quality graduates... If AAPA decides associate is “best” (really a cop-out), At least those highly qualified grads will also be qualified as a Walmart “Associate” May need that as job options continue to dwindle for PA’s in favor of easier to hire “Practitioners”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 10 hours ago, rev ronin said: The thing about this is that there are a ton of new programs trying to open. Unlike the NP programs, which have effectively no quality control, crash-and-burn rate for new programs seems to be about 50%, and ARC-PA has gone stupid slapping programs with probationary status for minor issues. We may be in trouble, but we WILL have the highest quality graduates... Thats all very nice, but I see no evidence that NPs can't be up to par after a year or so of practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 The last 10 years or so, every supervising doc I have had has been younger than me by quite a bit. Something a little surreal in of itself. But each of this "new generation" of docs saw ZERO difference between PA's and NP's. They had no idea that there was any difference between us in training and more importantly just did not care. Why? Because this new generation of docs has been raised and groomed to WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE. They are simply employees, not practice owners like in the old days. They care about only one thing....doing less supervisor work and that is where NP's are killing us Assistants. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) Just look at minute clinic job posting. NPs are accepted as new grads, while PAs need 2 years of experience (for the few positions that they even accept PAs for). Now, some of you may say those are not good jobs. However, I don't think we should be celebrating having less jobs available to us Edited July 18, 2020 by iconic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, iconic said: Just look at minute clinic job posting. NPs are accepted as new grads, while PAs need 2 years of experience (for the few positions that they even accept PAs for). Now, some of you may say those are not good jobs. However, I don't think we should be celebrating having less jobs available to us And last I checked, MinuteClinic does not hire PA's in California because of NP > PA regulations. Also the last time I checked, MC was the largest employer of AP's in the country. Not a small thing whether you poo poo the job or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Currently: 189,100 NPs (they are lumped into a group with Nurse Anesthetists and Nurse Midwives for a total of 240,700) NP job growth: 28% (53,000 jobs) from 2018-2028 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/nurse-anesthetists-nurse-midwives-and-nurse-practitioners.htm Currently: 118,800 PAs PA job growth: 31% (31,000 jobs) from 2018-2028 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/physician-assistants.htm It's scary to think there are a whopping 28,800 new grad NPs churned out each year compared to 8,800 PAs, when the need for NPs over the next 10 years (data from 2018) is only twice that at 53,000! NPs may be stuffing out PAs, but they will also be stuffing out themselves and also reducing salary. Some may go back to RN, which might relieve some of the burden of oversupply of NP. RN may have an undersupply so salary may go up, prompting some NPs to go back to their 3-12's and 1.5-2x overtime. Since some nurses work as an RN for years before becoming an NP, one could argue that their time as an NP is limited since they may only practice a certain amount of time, which may increase the number of NPs exiting the force. Given all this, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next 5-10 years. https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20180524.993081/full/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBuyAndSellJunk Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 7/19/2020 at 12:52 PM, SedRate said:Given all this, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next 5-10 years. https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20180524.993081/full/ Interesting for those of us with jobs already. Last year was terrible for a big chunk of (at least our) new graduates. This year is looking dismal with C19. Physicians like to complain about our desire for “independence”, but I’ve seen them do next to nothing to help us compete for jobs against NPs. I really hate all of the doomsayer conversations, but it is starting to feel like we are getting behind an eight ball of some sort. It might not be our profession dying, but something is going to give... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSPAC2 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 7/18/2020 at 12:25 PM, Cideous said: And last I checked, MinuteClinic does not hire PA's in California because of NP > PA regulations. Also the last time I checked, MC was the largest employer of AP's in the country. Not a small thing whether you poo poo the job or not. I wonder if the AAPA, CAPA, or maybe even PAFT has tried to contact MinuteClinic CA this if it is true. They just passed a legislation (SB697?) that puts PAs on par with NPs from my understanding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trazodone Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 I don't really buy into all of this hype about NPs taking over the world. Many of these new folks coming out of "NP school" are incompetent and they know it. Our institution has looked away from hiring NPs because of so many issues with turn over, mistakes, and burnout. They're just not fit to practice on an independent level. We even had one doc who was close to retirement and was interested in mentoring.....but only if they were PAs. Relax and give yourself some credit, just stay in your lane and do your job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kang1208 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 21 hours ago, trazodone said: I don't really buy into all of this hype about NPs taking over the world. Many of these new folks coming out of "NP school" are incompetent and they know it. Our institution has looked away from hiring NPs because of so many issues with turn over, mistakes, and burnout. They're just not fit to practice on an independent level. We even had one doc who was close to retirement and was interested in mentoring.....but only if they were PAs. Relax and give yourself some credit, just stay in your lane and do your job. Incompetent yet easier to employ than PAs due to their "independent practice law" so administrators (and often they are also nurses/NPs and not MD/DOs) are preferred to get the job over us so we lost in competing for the job. Our health system actually prefers NPs over PAs as NPs does not require "physician supervision" and often difficult to find a "supervising physician" for PAs as no MD/DO wants to be responsible for our practice. If a lot more PAs don't even have a job to begin with while NPs continue to take our opportunities, it doesn't even matter what doctors thinks of us because they are not doing the hiring. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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