Call out to what we introduce ourselves as

[Joelseff]

Agree

We have provided top notch care all along

 

Can't keep doing the same thing and expecting better results

 

+1 i dont think the establishing of a title and providing excellent care are mutually exclusive nor is the pursuit of better recognition in the healthcare arena and practice issues named by Lipper...

 

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[foreveryoung]

So... something to think about... when we call someone Dr, we are referring to their level of education... so should people call us Master ___? I still believe as long as we state we are a PA, first name or last name usage should be a personal choice particular to the culture each one of us practices in...

[True Anomaly]

So... something to think about... when we call someone Dr, we are referring to their level of education... so should people call us Master ___? I still believe as long as we state we are a PA, first name or last name usage should be a personal choice particular to the culture each one of us practices in...

 

While I am coming around on the idea of "PA (last name)", I can't get behind "Master ____". Reminds me of when I was a kid and would get cards from my grandparents addressed to "Master TA"

 

Just IMO :)

[Corpsman2PA]

Agree... but small point of clarification.

 

Students are still "future" members of this profession.

They still have to make it through training (Didactic & Clinicals), graduate and pass the PANCE.

While the attrition rate in programs is low, there is still a percentage that never make it to the end for various reasons and therefore never become "members of this profession" because they never work as PAs. Even though they were once PA students.

 

Some even re-group, get it together and complete other healthcare programs.

For example, I know of a Physician who failed out of a PA program. He says it was due to his life stressors, maturity level and the sheer volume of info at that time that caused him to fail out. Fortunately he doesn't seem to harbor any resentment against PAs for his shortcoming back before he was admitted to DO school.

 

I don't consider him a "member of this profession" simply because he was admitted to a PA program.

 

I think the better term is Representative of the profession. As a PA-s, I consider myself a representative of the profession, clearly visible to the community, family, and professionals that I interact with. My actions as a PA-s will influence the representation, promotion and exposure of the PA profession (and our school) in either a positive (or in Ernies case) negative way. We make a conscious choice to represent and identify ourselves everyday. Just as a civilian going through Marine Corps boot camp isn't a Marine until completion, we are not 'official' members of this professional community until the "s" changes to a "C"...

This is a great thread and has caused me to really get serious and thinking about patient introductions. One of the PA's I work with on a daily basis has given up on patients calling her "doctor" even after she introduces herself as a PA.

[klairsee]

I'm only a future PA student (starting in August) so I realize my opinion means very little anyone on this forum.

 

I can't see how saying "I'm PA Smith" is any more informative to patients than saying "I'm John Smith, a PA at this clinic." It really seems to be an issue of public awareness and I understand many PAs are trying very hard to educate the public. Nurses can say "I'm John Smith, a nurse" and physicians can say "I'm John Smith, a physician" because those professions are in the general public's vocabulary. I think as PAs become more ubiquitous and people learn that PAs are highly competent practitioners of medicine, this title problem will matter less.

 

Incidentally, I would support the name change as a PA because "physician assistant" is a misnomer. PAs don't exist to get the physician coffee. It would be nice (and clear up a lot of misunderstandings) if the name better reflected the job.

[Joelseff]

I'm only a future PA student (starting in August) so I realize my opinion means very little anyone on this forum.

 

I can't see how saying "I'm PA Smith" is any more informative to patients than saying "I'm John Smith, a PA at this clinic." It really seems to be an issue of public awareness and I understand many PAs are trying very hard to educate the public. Nurses can say "I'm John Smith, a nurse" and physicians can say "I'm John Smith, a physician" because those professions are in the general public's vocabulary. I think as PAs become more ubiquitous and people learn that PAs are highly competent practitioners of medicine, this title problem will matter less.

 

Incidentally, I would support the name change as a PA because "physician assistant" is a misnomer. PAs don't exist to get the physician coffee. It would be nice (and clear up a lot of misunderstandings) if the name better reflected the job.

 

I think although as you state It's not more informative, I believe the proponents (i am on the fence but warming up to it. Actually my extension at my new office says "PA So n So" ) are trying to establish a common salutatory for the profession. The purpose, as I see it, is for more of a formal, professional address of title. I have heard it being used by other PAs, not many, but still. In fact, I overheard one of my pts refer to me as PA So n So when she was talking to my MA. It felt a little weird, but not bad weird. Different weird.

 

I don't think this is as important as other issues but I like that we might have come up with/settled on a formal way to be addressed. I'd rather be called PA So n So, than Dr. So n So.....the latter always makes me break out my 30 sec spiel I memorized the first week of PA school. Actually being called Dr., which happens 9/10 times, makes me uncomfortable.

 

So FWIW, if you like it, use it. It's not illegal...If you don't then don't....that's not illegal either. But let's live n let live. Our profession needs more unity. It seems when an idea gets tossed out there we come up with 90 reasons why it Won't work. I have been guilty of this too.....

 

 

"kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya......"

 

:D

 

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[klairsee]

I think although as you state It's not more informative, I believe the proponents (i am on the fence but warming up to it. Actually my extension at my new office says "PA So n So" ) are trying to establish a common salutatory for the profession. The purpose, as I see it, is for more of a formal, professional address of title.

 

I definitely see the importance for PAs to distinguish themselves as professionals. Sorry if I came off as attacking anyone's ideas, as that was certainly not my intention. I just think adequate public awareness would make the title unecessary. PAs already conduct themselves with a level of professionalism that makes it clear that they are indeed professionals. They're so good at it that many unsuspecting patients think they are physicians. I think if PAs keep educating people they won't need awkward titles any more than lawyers, engineers or CEOs need to be addressed by their professional titles. Physicians are still called doctor because it's a relic from the middle ages when there were only 3 professions (law, medicine, theology) and they were all called doctors.

 

It's funny though, in the part of the country I'm from, even people who understand the PA/physician difference often refer to both as "the doctor." Of course, I would never let a patient think I'm a medical doctor. But I think it's a matter of grammatical convenience for people to just lump all medical practitioners together as "doctors."

[andersenpa]

I definitely see the importance for PAs to distinguish themselves as professionals. Sorry if I came off as attacking anyone's ideas, as that was certainly not my intention. I just think adequate public awareness would make the title unecessary. PAs already conduct themselves with a level of professionalism that makes it clear that they are indeed professionals. They're so good at it that many unsuspecting patients think they are physicians. I think if PAs keep educating people they won't need awkward titles any more than lawyers, engineers or CEOs need to be addressed by their professional titles. Physicians are still called doctor because it's a relic from the middle ages when there were only 3 professions (law, medicine, theology) and they were all called doctors.

 

It's funny though, in the part of the country I'm from, even people who understand the PA/physician difference often refer to both as "the doctor." Of course, I would never let a patient think I'm a medical doctor. But I think it's a matter of grammatical convenience for people to just lump all medical practitioners together as "doctors."

 

Our great care and professionalism will only go so far. We've been doing that for almost 50 yrs and many people still don't know what PAs are, or what we do (practice medicine!).

 

We have been told by the AAPA that we have to advocate for ourselves; they are not going to pay for any national promotion. So I don't see sitting it out and waiting on more "public awareness" since we already do that everyday. We need to take it to the next level and create a BRAND the way any other major PR initiative does. A BRAND is not defined as John or Melissa or Dave or Susan. It starts and ends with a short, easy to remember title: PA.

[68W2PA]

One of the nice things about military medicine is your introduction is based on rank. "Hello, I'm Major Killjoy. I'm one of the PAs here."

[klairsee]

Our great care and professionalism will only go so far. We've been doing that for almost 50 yrs and many people still don't know what PAs are, or what we do (practice medicine!).

 

We have been told by the AAPA that we have to advocate for ourselves; they are not going to pay for any national promotion. So I don't see sitting it out and waiting on more "public awareness" since we already do that everyday. We need to take it to the next level and create a BRAND the way any other major PR initiative does. A BRAND is not defined as John or Melissa or Dave or Susan. It starts and ends with a short, easy to remember title: PA.

 

Touché. I guess I'm hoping that PAs will become more commonplace as healthcare continues to evolve and tat will educate the public for us. However, I'm just a student who reads a lot and I'll be the first to admit that I don't know enough about being a PA yet to be throwing my opinions around. I just enjoy engaging in the discussion. It's interesting that the AAPA wants nothing to do with PR. That makes it difficult for PAs to organize any kind of widespread public education effort.

[Joelseff]

I definitely see the importance for PAs to distinguish themselves as professionals. Sorry if I came off as attacking anyone's ideas, as that was certainly not my intention. I just think adequate public awareness would make the title unecessary. PAs already conduct themselves with a level of professionalism that makes it clear that they are indeed professionals. They're so good at it that many unsuspecting patients think they are physicians. I think if PAs keep educating people they won't need awkward titles any more than lawyers, engineers or CEOs need to be addressed by their professional titles. Physicians are still called doctor because it's a relic from the middle ages when there were only 3 professions (law, medicine, theology) and they were all called doctors.

 

It's funny though, in the part of the country I'm from, even people who understand the PA/physician difference often refer to both as "the doctor." Of course, I would never let a patient think I'm a medical doctor. But I think it's a matter of grammatical convenience for people to just lump all medical practitioners together as "doctors."

 

Thats not just your part of the country. All PAs deal with being called Doctor. As Andersen noted we need to brand the "PA" brand and just passively doing it has not proven very fruitful in the mainstream publics eye. You are aware of PAs because you are a PA-S to be. Before you decided to become a PA, how much did you know about PAs? Joe public is largely ignorant of our education, training and abilities. This is why after FIFTY years of existence we still have to explain what we are and what we can do on a daily basis. We will continue to advocate passively, dont get me wrong, but a concerted proactive approach/push/effort like the name change campaign is exactly what we need. Look how that got move got things going and is probably the largest push on a topic that has come up many times in the past 50 years.

 

This PA branding is another issue we can all get behind. Its easy enough and wont cost you a dime. I used to think it rolled of the tongue wrong but the more i thought of it it makes sense and having a change of heart. Am i going to make my pts and the staff call me it, maybe not all the time since my practice is where i worked as a MA for several years and ive been known simply as Joe but when it requires formality i see it as totally appropriate.

 

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[physasst]

It's interesting....I've gotten a lot of mail lately, both snail and electronic addressing me as "Dr" now. Mostly email about potential collaborations (working on Cleveland Clinic right now) and other offers.

 

But it's made me change my answer to the Dr. thing. I used to always reply, "Nope, not a doctor, just Mike". Now, I say, "Nope, not a physician, you can just call me Mike". Subtle difference.

 

I'm actually interested in hearing from Bob and other doctoral graduates on this, and how they handle this, as this is new for me. Technically, referring to me as Dr is not incorrect, but I am not a physician. I don't really care about the title, and I don't want to use it in the clinical setting, but I've wondered how others handle this.

 

Anyone with any thoughts?

[burnpac]

Our great care and professionalism will only go so far. We've been doing that for almost 50 yrs and many people still don't know what PAs are, or what we do (practice medicine!).

 

We have been told by the AAPA that we have to advocate for ourselves; they are not going to pay for any national promotion. So I don't see sitting it out and waiting on more "public awareness" since we already do that everyday. We need to take it to the next level and create a BRAND the way any other major PR initiative does. A BRAND is not defined as John or Melissa or Dave or Susan. It starts and ends with a short, easy to remember title: PA.

 

So, when did the AAPA say that we have to advocate for ourselves, and that they are not going to promote the profession? I missed that memo, and I certainly voted on budgets for ten years that spent millions on this activity over two decades. I'm not going to rehash what has been done to promote the profession, and I refer folks to numerous previous posts that discuss this.

 

I have been a PA since 1982 in California, and trust me, we have gained significant public and profession awareness since that time due to PAs themselves, shear numbers, and our state, specialty and national professional organizations. The perception that nothing has been done is simply untrue.

[andersenpa]

So, when did the AAPA say that we have to advocate for ourselves, and that they are not going to promote the profession? I missed that memo, and I certainly voted on budgets for ten years that spent millions on this activity over two decades. I'm not going to rehash what has been done to promote the profession, and I refer folks to numerous previous posts that discuss this.

 

I have been a PA since 1982 in California, and trust me, we have gained significant public and profession awareness since that time due to PAs themselves, shear numbers, and our state, specialty and national professional organizations. The perception that nothing has been done is simply untrue.

 

Calls by PAs to enact a national PR campaign have been answered with a common refrain: it costs too much, there are better areas to focus resources on, AND that the best PR PAs can obtain is by performing quality care and educating the public on a patient by patient basis. This is official response from the AAPA in the past.

No one is doubting that PAs have made progress in terms of legislation.

We are a nearly 50 yr old profession, with strong performance/volume numbers behind it. At what point are we allowed to question: why do we remain so anonymous in the public's mind when it comes to health care? Why are PAs always absent when the lay press writes about the health care debate (we always hear about docs and nurses, and now more often hear of NPs)?

[TWR]

You want to sound more professional, introduce yourself as ____ ______, physician "associate". Sounds better and more accurate than "assistant".

[LIPPER]

I like Klondike bars.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

I like Klondike bars.

 

What would you doooOoooOo for a Klondike bar?

 

Would you call yourself PA lipper?

[atmu]

Calls by PAs to enact a national PR campaign have been answered with a common refrain: it costs too much, there are better areas to focus resources on, AND that the best PR PAs can obtain is by performing quality care and educating the public on a patient by patient basis. This is official response from the AAPA in the past.

No one is doubting that PAs have made progress in terms of legislation.

We are a nearly 50 yr old profession, with strong performance/volume numbers behind it. At what point are we allowed to question: why do we remain so anonymous in the public's mind when it comes to health care? Why are PAs always absent when the lay press writes about the health care debate (we always hear about docs and nurses, and now more often hear of NPs)?

 

I agree. None of my friends or family that work outside of healthcare have heard of PAs before. When I tell them I'm going to PA school, they ask me what's that. At some point to help explain, I usually ask of they've heard of NPs and they usually say yes and that now they understand.

[Joelseff]

I agree. None of my friends or family that work outside of healthcare have heard of PAs before. When I tell them I'm going to PA school, they ask me what's that. At some point to help explain, I usually ask of they've heard of NPs and they usually say yes and that now they understand.

 

Lol, when i was in school I used to say to family n friends "it's the medical version of NPs" just to confuse them more lol.

 

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[burnpac]

Calls by PAs to enact a national PR campaign have been answered with a common refrain: it costs too much, there are better areas to focus resources on, AND that the best PR PAs can obtain is by performing quality care and educating the public on a patient by patient basis. This is official response from the AAPA in the past.

No one is doubting that PAs have made progress in terms of legislation.

We are a nearly 50 yr old profession, with strong performance/volume numbers behind it. At what point are we allowed to question: why do we remain so anonymous in the public's mind when it comes to health care? Why are PAs always absent when the lay press writes about the health care debate (we always hear about docs and nurses, and now more often hear of NPs)?

 

As long as I have been an AAPA member (1982), the AAPA has had continuous public relations activities and programs.

 

You hear about docs and nurses more because they have been around much longer than PAs and there are 700,000 / 3,000,000 of them respectively in the US as opposed to 80,000 PAs.

 

PAs are not always absent in HCR press, and the AAPA has done a job bigger than our size in promoting the profession to the folks that write about HCR; it is a priority.

 

Budgeting by its nature is about allocating resources to priorities. In my opinion, the BOD has taken this role seriously, and allocated its scarce resources in a responsible way, and in a way that can be directly attributed to the growth and prosperity of the profession. We are now continuously high up on virtually every list of desirable professions, highly paid, and in overwhelming demand.

 

While in your community you perceive near complete anonymity of the profession; it is not my experience or perception in my community.

 

I have to ask what is the problem that you are trying to solve regarding what is perceived as the anonymity of the profession, and what is the return on investment in regards to jobs, pay, scope of practice, etc., that a "national PR campaign" would generate beyond what the AAPA is already doing?

[ToppDog]

PA's have been around longer than NP's.

[burnpac]

PA's have been around longer than NP's.

 

Not true.

 

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/464663_2

 

And that makes really doesn't make any difference if it was true. They are supported by a family of 3 million that traces their roots back hundreds of years.

[ToppDog]

Interesting. I had learned that the PA profession was offered to nurses before it was offered to corpsman & they refused it because they weren't interested in becoming providers. I did not know that they were starting their own program the same year that PA did in 1965. I thought it was a little later. Thanks for posting that.

[Joelseff]

Interesting. I had learned that the PA profession was offered to nurses before it was offered to corpsman & they refused it because they weren't interested in becoming providers. I did not know that they were starting their own program the same year that PA did in 1965. I thought it was a little later. Thanks for posting that.

 

We were taught this at my (and burnpac's hehe) program because the founder of our program was Virginia Fowkes who was a nurse who worked with Dr Stead in training the first few classes at duke before starting PCAP at Stanford. According to her, Dr. Stead approached the Nursing upper ups only to be rejected. He then turned to the medics and corpsmen and the rest is hx. I dunno if the nurses rejected b/c they had other plans in the works for an NP profession, but according to Mrs. Fowkes, there was not a NP profession at that time. It may be they came up with it at around the sane time. I dunno how true this is, or if its revisionist's hx just going by what she said in our lecture on PA and PCAP hx.

 

But Steve's right its not important who came first. But it is important we stay relevant and not left behind.

 

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[Contrarian]

^^^.... YEP...^^^

 

I attended the same program and thats the story "Ginny" (Mrs. Fowlkes) told to us back then.

At that time, she was still the director of the program, and as a Nurse, she did some of the lectures to the "Dual" students. These were the students getting both NP and PA certificates.

 

According to her... the NP profession was "officially" started a few/couple yrs after the PA profession was.

I'll continue to take her word for it... since unlike anyone on this thread, she was there.

 

Anywho...

I agree wholeheartedly with this:

 

But Steve's right its not important who came first. But it is important we stay relevant and not left behind.