Do Not Become a PA

[Guest Paula]

Trout:  you are still young.  You can go to Med school.  Just do it. 

[PACdan]

I went to PA school because I was 30 and didn't want to spend 8 years in training.  Now here I am 10 years later and I could've been done by now, making twice what I make now (even if I was in the military) with no restrictions on my future.

 

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much. 20/20 hindsight makes everything seem rosier, but who knows how you'd feel about that path now, had you taken it. It's rarely a sure thing...

 

I tried to talk my parents into giving me $5k as a high schooler, to invest in a little company called "Google" when it had its IPO 10 years ago... that would have paid for my entire PA schooling now. :(   That was a sure miss.

[Maverick87]

I'm active duty military and it's true, we have it pretty easy here.  I make decent money (with bonuses and benefits).  I leave on time most days and rarely get called in after hours. My patient population is generally healthy friendly and motivated, so unless I'm deployed it's all fairly low stress.  But I agree with the OP- I wish I went to med school.  I work with a DO and a Carribean trained doc but they are doctors and I will always be a PA. 

 

I went to PA school because I was 30 and didn't want to spend 8 years in training.  Now here I am 10 years later and I could've been done by now, making twice what I make now (even if I was in the military) with no restrictions on my future.  Imagine never having to explain to the guy next to me on the plane what it is I do.  Never have a specialist second guess my opinion because I'm a PA.  Life as a doctor is just plain better.

 

Yeah, I've heard the one about doctors who wish they'd gone to PA school - everyone's heard a version of that.  I'd like to switch positions with that dermatologist for a month and see if they like my life and my paycheck.  I betcha they wouldn't choose to stay in my shoes. 

Check out the student doctor forum. It's the opposite of what you see here.

 

In this forum, you have PAs saying how they regret not going to med school. In that forum, you have doctors saying how they regret going to med school (some even say that they should have been PAs).

 

The grass is always greener....

[didymus]

And that's median pay, not starting pay. I personally dont think teachers make terrible money in most places. Some places (including some of the worst performing places, like Chicago) they make very good money.

 

Watch the movie "Waiting for Superman" for a good understanding of what is wrong with our education system.

 

Teachers also don't work anywhere close to the number of weeks most people in other occupations do each year. Teachers are paid for around 8 - 8.5 months a year of work, have excellent benefits, and tenure. Even horrible teachers can't be fired if they are able to slide under the radar for 3-5 years. And if we are really honest about the state of public education in the United States, being an elementary, middle, or high school teacher is less about pedagogy now than ever, and these folks are mostly glorified babysitters (and I feel terrible for them); education these days consists of teaching out of curriculum notebooks that are given out by the school district, which are handed down from the federal DOE, and teachers are just required to "teach to the test," meaning they just have to give out the handouts from these books, go over the pre-prepared lesson plans (from these books) and try to get enough kids to score high enough on standardized exams as possible, so as to not lose funding for the school.

 

For $60,000 a year, 8 months of working, summers off, and guaranteed lifetime employment, that sounds like a sweet deal.

 

Teachers don't need to be paid more. The entire education system needs to be gutted and re-constructed from the ground up.

 

As far as OP is concerned--well, some people are never satisfied.

[SocialMedicine]

many teachers put in 50-60 hour weeks when school is in session. You need to write the lesson plan before school the next day, and grade papers etc. 

[LtPM2PA'16]

This sort of statement about teachers and teaching..i wonder if you actually know any teachers or are these things you heard on TV?? Tenure...except for big cities, its going away. High pay... LOL except for a few big cities...try less than 40K. Great benefits... lol nothing to say there... Constant abuse from lawmakers, parents, kids and people like yourself...I wonder why anyone wants to teach anymore. Yes the system is messed up, but to say these things about teachers is ridiculous. I don't think you (or I) could last an entire year in the working conditions these teachers do. Yes, of course they made the decision to do it and thankfully they did or you wouldn't be able to put the letters together to make your uneducated statement. Please, turn off the television and ask some teachers about their jobs before making such ridiculous statement ever again.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Check out the student doctor forum. It's the opposite of what you see here.

 

In this forum, you have PAs saying how they regret not going to med school. In that forum, you have doctors saying how they regret going to med school (some even say that they should have been PAs).

 

The grass is always greener....

Or negative feelings are more likely to be placed on the Internet. Happy people don't feel the need to go around telling others how happy they are with all their decisions. I don't weigh forum posts as representative of entire groups. But people should read the posts here and see it isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

[didymus]

This sort of statement about teachers and teaching..i wonder if you actually know any teachers or are these things you heard on TV?? Tenure...except for big cities, its going away. High pay... LOL except for a few big cities...try less than 40K. Great benefits... lol nothing to say there... Constant abuse from lawmakers, parents, kids and people like yourself...I wonder why anyone wants to teach anymore. Yes the system is messed up, but to say these things about teachers is ridiculous. I don't think you (or I) could last an entire year in the working conditions these teachers do. Yes, of course they made the decision to do it and thankfully they did or you wouldn't be able to put the letters together to make your uneducated statement. Please, turn off the television and ask some teachers about their jobs before making such ridiculous statement ever again.

You don't know anything about my background, so I can pardon the presumption and ignorance on your part. I originally went to school to become a secondary school educator, until I changed my mind after spending a semester as a para in middle school in the inner city. Teachers taught to the standardized testing with lesson plans out of notebooks that they most certainly did not write themselves, they were tenured, and the ones I worked with were making $48K-$60K, and had state benefits, which are awesome (at no out of pocket cost to them). Some of them chose to take on summer jobs to earn even more, while others basked in their summer breaks (and long winter and spring breaks) just like the students.

 

The truth is, many of these teachers relied so heavily on the para's (like myself) because the behavioral problems were so intense and unceasing. Without us they would have actually, literally, never accomplished any actual teaching. My experience as a para had me in a kindergarten class, second grade, and two forth grade classrooms for a semester. I base my comments on this experience, what I learned from the education professors at my university, as well as the stories I have heard from the numerous teachers I know personally (for you to suggest I don't know any teachers is ludicrous--we all know teachers personally. It's not like they're a rare butterfly or something).

 

I am not discounting the role teachers play, but I am also not glorifying it to be something it isn't. Teacher's unions are amazing at selling the public on the illusion that teachers are the overworked and underpaid backbone of society. This is false in the current state of public school in the United States. Teacher's unions are incredibly influential, and have been for decades, and teachers have it relatively good because of them. It is a job I would personally hate, no question about it. Many of the kids are under-disciplined at home and set loose by their parent(s) on teachers every day for 7 hours--it would drive me insane.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Teachers also don't work anywhere close to the number of weeks most people in other occupations do each year. Teachers are paid for around 8 - 8.5 months a year of work, have excellent benefits, and tenure. Even horrible teachers can't be fired if they are able to slide under the radar for 3-5 years. And if we are really honest about the state of public education in the United States, being an elementary, middle, or high school teacher is less about pedagogy now than ever, and these folks are mostly glorified babysitters (and I feel terrible for them); education these days consists of teaching out of curriculum notebooks that are given out by the school district, which are handed down from the federal DOE, and teachers are just required to "teach to the test," meaning they just have to give out the handouts from these books, go over the pre-prepared lesson plans (from these books) and try to get enough kids to score high enough on standardized exams as possible, so as to not lose funding for the school.

 

For $60,000 a year, 8 months of working, summers off, and guaranteed lifetime employment, that sounds like a sweet deal.

 

Teachers don't need to be paid more. The entire education system needs to be gutted and re-constructed from the ground up.

 

As far as OP is concerned--well, some people are never satisfied.

You have no idea what is involved in teaching. I saw my wife work herself ragged working for the public school system, coming home crying almost every day the first year she taught. And you might want to fact check your numbers there. Your salary is off hers by about 22k. 8 months of working? This just reinforces you have no idea the amount of time teachers put in.

 

Maybe in your neck of the woods it's a sweet deal, but you might want to paint with a narrower brush.

[didymus]

many teachers put in 50-60 hour weeks when school is in session. You need to write the lesson plan before school the next day, and grade papers etc. 

 

Cool. And many people in most professions put in long hours when the busy season comes around. The difference with public school teachers is they get nearly 4 whole months off per year. My buddies working down at the aircraft plant put in 60 hour weeks all year for less than $60,000 a year (and they work the whole year, many of them on graveyard shifts, in suffocatingly hot or freezing cold warehouses, depending on the time of year). I'm sorry, but being a teacher and having to go home to grade middle school math papers on your bed while binge watching GoT reruns in your PJ's, or deciding which lesson plan from last year to use in class the next day, just doesn't gain tons of sympathy from me.

 

For sake of clarification, I have no problems with teachers, and think they are mostly wonderful people with a strong desire to genuinely help and educate children. That doesn't mean I am going to artificially inflate what it is they do everyday. I am a product of the public school system myself. There are not many days that go by that I think about how hard I am going to work to make sure I am able to afford to send my kids to private school because the public school system in our country is in a woeful place, and has been for a long time. I feel sad for the teachers in the system. I am sorrowful for the students that must go through it. I am tired of people claiming that if teachers were paid better the system would be better (just as I am with people who claim that if healthcare providers were paid less the healthcare system would be better). These are red herrings that distract from the real problems, just as they have distracted from the real issue of this thread (I blame myself for getting sucked in by it).

[didymus]

You have no idea what is involved in teaching. I saw my wife work herself ragged working for the public school system, coming home crying almost every day the first year she taught. And you might want to fact check your numbers there. Your salary is off hers by about 22k. 8 months of working? This just reinforces you have no idea the amount of time teachers put in. Maybe in your neck of the woods it's a sweet deal, but you might want to paint with a narrower brush.

 

I do have a pretty good idea what is involved with teaching actually, and I detailed my experience above (originally went to college to be a teacher, have many teacher friends, worked in a school in the inner city, and can use google effectively)--speaking of using Google, here's what I found:

 

National Average Salary for Public School Teacher: Base Salary $52,782  69.8%    Bonuses $0  0.0%     Value of Benefits Social Security $4,038  5.3%    401K/403B $1,900  2.5%    Disability $475  0.6%    Healthcare $6,592  8.7%    Pension $3,325  4.4%    Time Off $6,496  8.6%    Total Compensation $75,609  100%

 

Also, what does the anecdote about your wife prove? What was it that had her coming home everyday in tears that relates to what we are talking about? Was it the long hours that saddened her? Or was it the ceaseless behavioral problems she encountered and the realization that her job had little to do with educating children and more to do with keeping them in line, or being forced to pass them to the next level despite failing grades? Or the lack of support she had from administrators? Or how just downright awful the public school system is?

 

None of these things are fixed by paying teachers more. These issues are mostly systemic, require a much more nuanced discussion, and have nothing to do with "not knowing what teachers go through every day."

 

Also, as to teacher time off, another Google search yielded results. I overestimated the time off a bit, but keep in mind these numbers are an average. Still, 3 months off per year, on average, is damn good. That's $5,500 per month in earnings before benefits. When average benefits from the graphic above are calculated in, teachers make $8,400 per month. Not too shabby in anyone's neck of the woods.

 

 

The Average Teacher…..

• Earns $49,000 per year
• Works 9 months
• Teaches 8 hours per day
• Arrives early or stays late by about an hour
• Spends 3-5 hours daily planning, grading, communicating with parents, attending meetings, etc.
• Spends 2-4 weeks per year participating in continuing education
• Spends 3 weeks per year planning curriculum
• Spends 4 weeks per year getting ready for the new school year

*EDIT* The last line is the other month that I was accounting for in my 8 month work year assessment. Teachers don't have to be on campus those 4 weeks before the school year starts, but many will go in early to get ready for the school year. Technically (perhaps not everywhere) they have that time off as well. So they work between 8 and 9 months a year. If one happens to be on the lower end of that spectrum, the salary breakdown I posted above is an even sweeter deal.

[Joelseff]

Bringing the topic back to the OP... (I'm being hypocritical though since I have been known to derail a thread or two lol, but let's bring it back)

 

I have my qualms and complaints about being a PA like the OP and can respect his/her view but I think it shows that not everyone is cut out to be a PA. Problem is it is being sold by the media (USNWR et al) as a job filled with gumdrops and rainbows. Hence all the "I have no medical experience but have recently fell in love with the PA profession blah blah blah" we often find here and outside. I get at least 2-3 patients per month who ask about if I think they will make a good PA. Most of the time it's from burnout in their current profession or they are college kids.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

 

I do have a pretty good idea what is involved with teaching actually, and I detailed my experience above (originally went to college to be a teacher, have many teacher friends, worked in a school in the inner city, and can use google effectively)--speaking of using Google, here's what I found:

Base Salary $52,782 69.8% Bonuses $0 0.0% Value of Benefits Social Security $4,038 5.3% 401K/403B $1,900 2.5% Disability $475 0.6% Healthcare $6,592 8.7% Pension $3,325 4.4% Time Off $6,496 8.6% Total Compensation $75,609 100%

 

Also, what does the anecdote about your wife prove? What was it that had her coming home everyday in tears that relates to what we are talking about? Was it the long hours that saddened her? Or was it the ceaseless behavioral problems she encountered and the realization that her job had little to do with educating children and more to do with keeping them in line, or being forced to pass them to the next level despite failing grades? Or the lack of support she had from administrators? Or how just downright awful the public school system is?

 

None of these things are fixed by paying teachers more. These issues are mostly systemic, require a much more nuanced discussion, and have nothing to do with "not knowing what teachers go through every day."

 

Also, as to teacher time off, another Google search yielded results. I overestimated the time off a bit, but keep in mind these numbers are an average. Still, 3 months off per year, on average, is damn good. That's $5,500 per month in earnings before benefits. When average benefits from the graphic above are calculated in, teachers make $8,400 per month. Not too shabby in anyone's neck of the woods.

 

The Average Teacher…..

• Earns $49,000 per year
• Works 9 months
• Teaches 8 hours per day
• Arrives early or stays late by about an hour
• Spends 3-5 hours daily planning, grading, communicating with parents, attending meetings, etc.
• Spends 2-4 weeks per year participating in continuing education
• Spends 3 weeks per year planning curriculum
• Spends 4 weeks per year getting ready for the new school year

The problem was all of the above. She was much happier working in the private school system for half the pay. I also never said that paying more would solve the problem, but a good teachers are both needed and worth it, plus some. Are you trying to use a straw man argument? Personally I believe paying people what they are worth. Too much work for too little money. Smart people, who aren't incredibly altruistic, do something else and the crap is left behind. "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."- George Bernard Shaw. Why do you think the best and brightest go into medicine? Decades and decades ago, teaching was a coveted position because it was basically the best job a woman could get until barriers broke down and they could participate in other professions with greater pay.

 

I'll be sure to forward your post to her former administration so that can send her back pay check in the mail. Also with your final list, I'm not sure how you still come out to 9 months of work or short days.

 

Sorry if I'm offended, but I take your posts to mean they aren't worth their salary and certainly shouldn't be paid more. I'm not arguing anything about improving their work conditions I thought that message was pretty clear. If I misunderstand then I apologize.

[didymus]

The problem was all of the above. She was much happier working in the private school system for half the pay. I also never said that paying more would solve the problem, but a good teachers are both needed and worth it, plus some. Are you trying to use a straw man argument? Personally I believe paying people what they are worth. Too much work for too little money. Smart people, who aren't incredibly altruistic, do something else and the crap is left behind. "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."- George Bernard Shaw. Why do you think the best and brightest go into medicine? Decades and decades ago, teaching was a coveted position because it was basically the best job a woman could get until barriers broke down and they could participate in other professions with greater pay.

 

I'll be sure to forward your post to her former administration so that can send her back pay check in the mail. Also with your final list, I'm not sure how you still come out to 9 months of work or short days.

 

Sorry if I'm offended, but I take your posts to mean they aren't worth their salary and certainly shouldn't be paid more. I'm not arguing anything about improving their work conditions I thought that message was pretty clear. If I misunderstand then I apologize.

 

Others have commented, on this thread and in other places as well, that teachers are, supposedly, underpaid and overworked:

 

 

I didn't mean to imply that you made that argument, rather that you jumped on the teacher-defense bandwagon, so I lumped you in with the arguments made by others earlier. I apologize for misrepresenting your position, as that wasn't my intention.

 

Look again at the last set of data. It says the average teacher works 9 months per year, and work 8 hour days (contrary to what someone argued above about teachers putting in 60 hour weeks).

 

Also, I agree that the working conditions for teachers could be improved, but that such a scenario is nearly unthinkable with the current state of public schools, teacher's unions, and federal education policies and politics. 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Others have argued, on this thread and in other places as well, for increasing teacher pay because they are, supposedly, underpaid and overworked:

 

I didn't mean to imply that you made that argument, rather that you jumped on the teacher-defense bandwagon, so I lumped you in with the arguments made by others earlier. I apologize for misrepresenting your position, as that wasn't my intention.

 

Look again at the last set of data. It says the average teacher works 9 months per year, and work 8 hour days (contrary to what someone argued above about teachers putting in 60 hour weeks).

 

Also, I agree that the working conditions for teachers should improve, but that such a scenario is nearly unthinkable with the current state of public schools, teacher's unions, and federal education policies and politics.

You didn't imply anything. They are under paid and overworked. At least the good ones are.

 

They 8 hours a day like I only see patients 8 hours a day, but then I have to chart for 2 more. Gotta tack on at least an extra 2 hours per day for lesson planning, meetings, the rotating schedule for staying until 5 making sure kids get in the cars with parents and aren't abducted at pick up, cleaning room, admin paperwork, etcetera. Hell, my wife had to go in on Saturdays at least every 2-3 weeks to get all her work done. Now I will say that she worked at a very strenuous school. By economic level they should have been 34th in the state but were 4th through sheer hard work.

[Maverick87]

Or negative feelings are more likely to be placed on the Internet. Happy people don't feel the need to go around telling others how happy they are with all their decisions. I don't weigh forum posts as representative of entire groups. But people should read the posts here and see it isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

True.

 

To be honest, I know plenty of doctors and PAs in real life and the vast majority don't regret the decisions they've made. The ones that do regret it usually have some other factor involved in this realization.

[Derbingle]

Just want to add, watching, assisting or being exposed to a profession, like para to teacher above, still does not give total insight to what a specific profession completely entails. Watching a job, is not the job, i say this as I watch ER techs become nurses and PAs, nurses bceome NPs and PAs, and then hear them state a general consensus: eventually they something to the effect "I didnt understand all the problems I was going to be faced with". Its not just medicine. Much harder than They they thought it was going to be, usually just the beginning. Bc they do so much more than what people see. Some end up loving it, others never do.

[TeacherPA]

Reading this post, like others have said before me, is a little discouraging. Derbingle, other than watching a profession (shadowing a PA, MD/DO), what do you think would help those of us who are interested in that career decide if it's for us.  I am a teacher now, not looking to get into the "do teachers get paid enough?" debate, but definitely looking to switch careers. Many of the problems in our public school system have been highlighted above, so I am sure I don't need to explain why I would like to find a different career, but I am worried that I am not seeing "all the problems [i will be] faced with" as a PA. It seems like some PAs (the one who started this topic) are unhappy that they did not become physicians and are frustrated that they are not respected. Is that the crux of the matter for most/many people? What are the other major problems that would prevent you from recommending PA as a career?

 

Background on me: I worked in an ER as a scribe before becoming a teacher and find myself missing that work (seeing patients, working with the ED staff, listening to the docs + PAs figure out what was wrong with them, etc.)

[Joelseff]

Why don't you work as an ER tech or EMT first?

[TeacherPA]

I would like to, but I don't have the credentials right now and taking a class (to get a CNA or EMT-B) wouldn't really be feasible until summer. Those of you that were ER techs or EMTs, did you think that it gave you insight into the PA profession? I would also like to see some areas other than ER, since I worked there for so long (3 years, min of 2 shifts a week). I have been looking into CNA courses, but I don't know when I would fit in CNA work- I work full time as a teacher and take classes at night. I don't want to get a part time job that I can't commit to and I don't want to be "checking a box" for my application. I haven't shadowed PAs in other areas, do you think that would be a better insight into the career? I know that I am not the only person who has asked questions like this, so please don't think I am too lazy to search the forum or that this is a "new interest" for me. I know what being a PA entails in the ER (or at least in the ERs I worked), but this thread (and a few other posts) have given me new concerns I didn't previously have (about job satisfaction, mainly).

[Joelseff]

If your ER scribe work included some hands on work and it's recent you might be OK at some programs that doesn't require a lot of HCE. To get a good grasp of what PAs do in other fields, working as a MA (you might be able to get a job just by your ER experience since MA does not require certification) in primary care or at least shadow a PA in Primary Care

[Boatswain2PA]

[EMEDPA]

I would like to, but I don't have the credentials right now and taking a class (to get a CNA or EMT-B) wouldn't really be feasible until summer. Those of you that were ER techs or EMTs, did you think that it gave you insight into the PA profession? I would also like to see some areas other than ER, since I worked there for so long (3 years, min of 2 shifts a week). I have been looking into CNA courses, but I don't know when I would fit in CNA work- I work full time as a teacher and take classes at night. I don't want to get a part time job that I can't commit to and I don't want to be "checking a box" for my application. I haven't shadowed PAs in other areas, do you think that would be a better insight into the career? I know that I am not the only person who has asked questions like this, so please don't think I am too lazy to search the forum or that this is a "new interest" for me. I know what being a PA entails in the ER (or at least in the ERs I worked), but this thread (and a few other posts) have given me new concerns I didn't previously have (about job satisfaction, mainly).

yes. I worked with docs and PAs daily for 4 years as an er tech. that taught me about the professions and about hospital medicine as well as a lot of the language of medicine and pharmacology. being a medic taught me about emergency medicine and how to act in a true crisis when no one else was around to ask for help.

[davidlewispa]

Most patients in the ED are fatass whiners that make the job miserable.  I made $187,000 last year in Ga, that makes me tolerate it. If you don't like medicine as a PA you wont like it as a DO or MD. If I did something else it would be astronomer or do the fat slug patients do and live off of the backs the taxpayers.

[JohnnyM2]

Even better, become a politician. Then you will have a better lifestyle living off the backs of tax payers as you confiscate their money and hand it over to the fat ass whiners. Actually, I think this thread is overly cynical. Most jobs are what you make of them and grousing tends to be unproductive. If you don't enjoy your career, move on. Don't tell everyone else why they should hate your career. The real problem may be your attitude.

 

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