New Doctor of Physician Assistant Medicine Program

[Joelseff]

I would love to learn OMM techniques to add to my skills.

 

 

Do you guys know of any good CME seminars for the basics?

 

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[primadonna22274]

Nice work primma. An extra tools indeed. You didn't comment on the patient LE motor strength. Sorry, formal neurospine PA here. Anyway, you did the right thing. Best of luck in training.

Normal, symmetric.

[primadonna22274]

I would love to learn OMM techniques to add to my skills. Do you guys know of any good CME seminars for the basics?Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

I don't but I'll keep my ears open. I know they are held periodically. 2 of the MDs I used to work with ages ago learned it somewhere and used it somewhat. Another MD, a hospice/palliative medicine preceptor, also learned and was the OMM guru at his residency program until they hired a DO to be co-director of the dually accredited program.

[discogenic]

If a PA student who used to be chiropractor happened to be doing a clinical rotation at a facility where OMM is practiced, do you think it's feasible that the student (i.e., me) could utilize his old skills during that rotation?

[cinntsp]

If a PA student who used to be chiropractor happened to be doing a clinical rotation at a facility where OMM is practiced, do you think it's feasible that the student (i.e., me) could utilize his old skills during that rotation?

You may want to see how your student malpractice insurance would apply in that situation.

 

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[discogenic]

You may want to see how your student malpractice insurance would apply in that situation.

 

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If my preceptor uses OMM, I should be good to go, right?

[Joelseff]

If my preceptor uses OMM, I should be good to go, right?

I would ask your clinic coordinator at your school for specifics with your mal ins. Another point of view in this situation is you are a student and should focus on learning medicine during your time in rotations. You can always practice after you graduate if you find a SP who does OMM, I suppose. My classmate is also a chiro. When she graduated she worked at an ortho practice as a PA on odd days and on even days as a chiro or something like this. I dunno the specifics but it seems it can be done.

 

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[mrpa]

After thinking about it further, those on here who are not in favor of the PA doctoral track are actually right on target. The doctoral level of PA is MD/DO. Nurses, PT's, SLP, and others who have added a clinical doctorate to their respective fields didn't have a doctoral-level offering until they expanded the scope of these fields. PA's have, essentially, a masters degree in medicine. There already always has been a doctorate in medicine. So if that is the certification a PA wants, then he or she needs to enter one of the doctoral programs in medicine that already exist: MD or DO.

 

Exactly. If you want a doctorate in medicine, go to medical school.

[blueridge]

Exactly. If you want a doctorate in medicine, go to medical school.

 

Are you then also against a tiered medical education design altogether? 

[skyblu]

I'm not mrpa, but I feel the same way. A doctorate in medicine already exists. What I believe is that we have (those with MS degrees) a master's in medicine, and there should be a way to simply continue, like in any step-approach career, towards a doctorate. That doctorate is an MD (or DO). And I'm not talking a bridge that shaves off only a year. I'm talking going back for the parts we don't learn in PA school, for two years max.

[EMEDPA]

I'm not mrpa, but I feel the same way. A doctorate in medicine already exists. What I believe is that we have (those with MS degrees) a master's in medicine, and there should be a way to simply continue, like in any step-approach career, towards a doctorate. That doctorate is an MD (or DO). And I'm not talking a bridge that shaves off only a year. I'm talking going back for the parts we don't learn in PA school, for two years max.

I like this idea as well but the issue is that to be accredited a "medical school program" must be at least 3 years.

if pa programs at medical schools granted dual credit as pa/md credits then returning to take some classes would be like taking a leave of absence from medical school. it would also allow md students to take pa boards if they took all of our coursework.

[gleannfia]

I believe that as the primary care shortage continue to come to a head,  alternatives to the three-year mandate will be proposed.  Unfortunately, at my age (53) it will likely be too late for me.  But there is there is no way I am going to shell out $$$ for a doctorate degree (PA) in which I have zero interest. Thankfully,  I work in an environment (the VA) where the lack of MD/DO affects me very little. The doctors I work with are way too busy with their own panels to be looking over my shoulder, and, after 27 years in the field, I have earned at least that much. Of course, I would always like to have a higher salary, but I am very happy with my pay.

 

Besides the VA, there are many other venues in which PAs can function very autonomously.

[problem child]

Here you have it, from the heart of central Virginia:

 

"Upon completion of the MPAM, qualified students will have the option to continue in the Doctor of Physician Assistant Medicine (DPAM) program for nine months. The DPAM clinical fellowship will provide students with invaluable exposure to selected specialty areas in health care including, but not limited to, family medicine, pediatrics, internal medicine or surgery over a nine month term. Those who enroll in the DPAM will begin their instruction shortly after the master program and will complete 34 credits that combines the clinical fellowship with continued didactic instruction. The doctoral coursework will include organizational behavior and leadership, health care administration, global health, disaster medicine, health care law and doctoral research."

 

https://www.lynchburg.edu/department-physician-assistant-medicine

 

Nice, though the term assistant (presently) lingers.   Hmmm, lots of questions.... Yet, perhaps a stone or two has been laid that helps to establish a viable pathway interested and seasoned PAs to transition to physician, especially in light of the recent WHO position papers to award proper credit for prior medical education and reduce US recruitment of foreign physicians.  Which medical school(s) will rise to the occasion and call?

ok, fine. but WHADDERTHEY GONNA CALL THEM???? 

[problem child]

This.  I think I pondered many years ago on this forum about the absurdity of someone being a "Doctor of Physician Assisting".  And now it's almost a reality.  

 

Just a big, giant "face-palm" is all I think when I read this

 right? nutsville

[blueridge]

ok, fine. but WHADDERTHEY GONNA CALL THEM???? 

Well, Lynchburg College has a chance to at least try to right the ship.  A doctorate in Physician Associate of Medicine (to be known as PA-D) is better than what they presently are offering, yet this degree still seems to be all over the map with true North off kilter.  The concept may be obsolete by the time the first doctorates are awarded.  LC ought to go for something altogether new, something that at lends itself to increased scope of practice and a pathway to independence in a similar manner to what we see with NPs and 3 years of collaboration, etc.  If  LC has found enough support to develop (and sustain) a Doctorate Physician Assistant of Medicine, maybe they….  

[MedicinePower]

Is PA-D the postnominal they have agreed on? How does this interact with various state laws that govern the use of postnominals?

[LIPPER]

Do NP's have anything resembling a bridge program to MD?

 

 

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[EMEDPA]

Do NP's have anything resembling a bridge program to MD?

 

 

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ONLY IN THE CARRIBEAN...

[LIPPER]

ONLY IN THE CARRIBEAN...

 

And for PA's, besides the Carribean are there programs in the states?

 

Wouldn't the propagation of bridge programs be more advantageous for us to pursue instead of doctorates? I'm mean what says more about training/education then the fact that PA's are "bred" to be doctors more than NP's?

 

I know. That's not what we became PA's for. But we didn't join up for degree creep either.

 

 

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[EMEDPA]

And for PA's, besides the Carribean are there programs in the states?

Lecom has the pa to do bridge. 3 yrs. no mcat. only 1 term of ochem required. no lab.

[KMD16]

The requirement for LECOM are solely case by case bases. Not clear cut. Yes. No MCAT requires. Factor in are # of years as practicing PA & boards scores. Other factors are in play to meet accreditation requirement.

[Acromion]

Degree creep will be the death of us. MD/DO is the terminal degree in medicine and the logical route for PA's who wish to practice independently. We should concentrate our energy on promoting PA -> DO/MD bridge programs instead of carving out a separate doctorate program for PA's. I have no desire to be a "Dr. PA" and I would sooner leave the profession than go back to school for clinical doctorate.

 

So what if NP's can practice nursing independently? Chiropractors, naturopaths, and acupuncturists can do the same. I have no envy toward these professionals because I largely consider them to be quacks. I think it is deceptive for Nurse Practitioners to try promote themselves as alternatives to primary care doctors when they are actually practicing advanced practice nursing and are licensed under the BON. I went to a school that had an FNP program and for the life of me I could not figure out what those students were actually learning. I'm sorry to say this, but these NP schools are churning out quacks who are not qualified to practice medicine without supervision. All it will take is a few high profile screw ups promoted in the news for that to become apparent.

[BruceBanner]

 I think it is deceptive for Nurse Practitioners to try promote themselves as alternatives to primary care doctors when they are actually practicing advanced practice nursing and are licensed under the BON. I went to a school that had an FNP program and for the life of me I could not figure out what those students were actually learning. I'm sorry to say this, but these NP schools are churning out quacks who are not qualified to practice medicine without supervision. All it will take is a few high profile screw ups promoted in the news for that to become apparent.

 

Yup, couldn't agree more. On rotations my preceptors told me that their NP students were a complete mixed bag. Some were almost on par with us (almost), and others they weren't even sure how they got into, let alone functioned in a graduate medical program.

 

NP training is f*cking inferior, period. But that's not really the point, and that's not what we as PAs are fighting. It's irrelevant when they have a political lobby and the sheer numbers to blow us out of the water. This really is a game of politics and public perception. And the NPs are running laps around us. 

 

The reason why you SHOULD be concerned about NP independent practice is that it will affect our viability in the job market if it continues to evolve on a large scale. Who cares about a few high-profile screw ups when there are a hundred thousand other NPs out there to buffer the statistics.

[cinntsp]

Degree creep will be the death of us. MD/DO is the terminal degree in medicine and the logical route for PA's who wish to practice independently. We should concentrate our energy on promoting PA -> DO/MD bridge programs instead of carving out a separate doctorate program for PA's. I have no desire to be a "Dr. PA" and I would sooner leave the profession than go back to school for clinical doctorate.

 

Why does it have to be one or the other?  Why can't we develop more opportunities to pursue both avenues?  Don't you think a PA interested in a faculty position, overseas work, or entering into government may want to avoid 6+ years to become an MD/DO when they could have a DHSc, which can afford those opportunities, in the same time or a little more than it takes to complete a program currently?

 

We can't be so narrow-minded on these issues.  As a profession we should be working hard to build multiple pathways to advance PAs in clinical practice, education, government, and research.  Becoming an MD/DO is not necessarily the solution to all of these.

[EMEDPA]

  Don't you think a PA interested in a faculty position, overseas work, or entering into government ....could have a DHSc, which can afford those opportunities

 

hmm, sounds familiar....:)

this was my plan. MD/DO wasn't an option while continuing to work and live at my current location and the DHSc gets me much of what I am looking for in terms of potential advancement in my career. A residency would probably be a great step as well but there are none within 1000 miles of me.