Major Change: Doctorate in Medical Science

[Simplify]

true, but any doctorate will get you there as long as it is "related to health". DHSc, DrPH, PhD in many fields, etc fit the bill. This was one reason I went back for my DHSc.

Dr. Emedpa

Agreed.  I don't doubt that your degree was harder earned and probably mores substantial as far as curriculum goes.  However, this doctorate appears to be around 50 credits and from what I can tell is the fastest way by far to transition to the doctorate level.  Again, if the degree was more important from a career standpoint; federal (to increase $$$) or to help you land a faculty role, this would appear to be the most bang for your buck and would get you there much faster than any other routes I have seen.   

[rpackelly]

The DHSc is now a very established degree for PAs in academia,  given the two major programs that have produced lots of PA-C/DHSc grads.   We have huge number of program directors, department chairs, and an increasing number of deans and associate deans (and one Provost).  I think it would be hard to replicate that.  The DMS is shorter but more expensive and definitely has a more clinical focus.   For experienced PAs who want to enhance their options outside of clinical practice, I think the non-clinical degrees offer a bit more flexibility. and scaffolds on to the day to day activities of an academic (writing papers, etc.)  I know that at the time I went back for my Ed.D I was already PA faculty and needed a doctoral degree for tenure at my institution.  I would not have been excited about re-doing advanced anatomy and immunology essentially at the tail end of my clinical career and would not have found it as useful.  So this looks much more exciting for a newer grad with 20-30 more years in the clinical workforce.

[ChathamPA]

Even if it doesn't add more autonomy through increased scope of practice laws, this is still an excellent way to obtain a clinically relevant doctorate so we can compete on the same level as DNPs for positions. Looks to be a excellent curriculum as well, very relevant.

 

I think if this becomes more common, it also will add to the credence that there should be a pathway to autonomy and will help pave the way for that.

 

Hope it doesn't end up being a dud.

 

Agreed. This could end up being something really cool.

[ventana]

I think I prefer the new program at Lynchburg , VA that is offering an optional postgrad clinical phase to grant a DPAM (Doctorate in PA medicine).

http://www.lynchburg.edu/graduate/physician-assistant-medicine/physician-assistant-doctoral-option/

 

Physician Assistant Doctoral Option

Doctor of Medical Science

Lynchburg College is excited to be in the developmental stages of a doctoral degree as a post-professional option for students that have graduated from the Lynchburg College Master of Physician Assistant Medicine program (MPAM). Curriculum development started in Late 2013 and will produce its first expected graduate in May 2018.

This program is not an entry level doctoral program. Physician Assistants interested in this program must have previously completed the Lynchburg College MPAM degree, completed all of their PA professional education, and successfully passed the National Commission on Certification of Physician Assistants (NCCPA) Physician Assistant National Certifying Exam (PANCE).

Program Outline

• 9 months additional instruction post-master’s degree
• Coursework in leadership training in areas including healthcare management and law, organizational behavior, disaster medicine, global health
• Clinical fellowship

Please continue to visit our website for more information as it develops.

The program offering is contingent upon the approval of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (SACSCOC).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that's what I am talking about....

[rpackelly]

More info from LMU via paeaonline.org.  Just go there, it is on the first page.  Or try this which will probably automatically be shortened:

 

http://www.paeaonline.org/q-and-a-lincoln-memorial/

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

I wanted to specifically highlight this.

 

PAEA: Do you envision that graduates would have different roles or responsibilities from other PAs?

MM: Graduates of this program will have the skills and training necessary to function at the highest level in primary care settings. Graduates should expect an expanded scope of practice as delegated by the supervising physician. However, the true goal is to achieve a new scope of practice equivalent to other doctorally trained medical providers. The institution is working closely with state legislators on this matter locally.

[Simplify]

I wanted to specifically highlight this.

 

PAEA: Do you envision that graduates would have different roles or responsibilities from other PAs?

MM: Graduates of this program will have the skills and training necessary to function at the highest level in primary care settings. Graduates should expect an expanded scope of practice as delegated by the supervising physician. However, the true goal is to achieve a new scope of practice equivalent to other doctorally trained medical providers. The institution is working closely with state legislators on this matter locally.

This is the real meat and potatoes of the whole proposal.  I wish they would have elaborated.  

[MedicinePower]

 

School leaders said the program is unique and will bridge the gap between physician assistants and physicians to improve health care and access to health care.

 

I look forward to a Q&A session with the school leaders for them to specifically explain what that means. Is this truly meant to bring a PA to the same level of education as an MD/DO? If so how do they plan on selling this to PAs who wish to obtain that level of training with no strings attached?

 

An interesting development.

[Joelseff]

If they are working with legislators about expanding our scope then this is something I can get behind. Hopefully the tip of the spear and not some dead end

 

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[Marinejiujitsu]

If they are working with legislators about expanding our scope then this is something I can get behind. Hopefully the tip of the spear and not some dead end

 

Sent from my S5 Active...Like you care...

I will jump on board if it expands scope and pay. We might see it worth a hoot right before I retire. [emoji15]

 

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[rpackelly]

I've been in the "alternative" practice of medicine since 1974 and a PA identifier since 1976 (first as a women's health PA and then as a real PA).  It is impossible to tell a "tip of the spear" from a dead end until many years have passed.  I vote for supporting all tips of the spear at this time. 

[db_pavnp]

If you're a geek, this is a more attractive option than writing papers.  It's online.

[E27]

My hope is that this bridges eventually to an expanded scope of practice and independent practice.  Until something tangible comes out of it, it makes little sense.  I'd like to see a residency added to this program to accomplish MD or DO status.  :) 

 

Does anyone know if there is word of a PA-MD bridge coming down the pipeline?

[sillycibin]

Even if it doesn't add more autonomy through increased scope of practice laws, this is still an excellent way to obtain a clinically relevant doctorate so we can compete on the same level as DNPs for positions. Looks to be a excellent curriculum as well, very relevant.

 

I think if this becomes more common, it also will add to the credence that there should be a pathway to autonomy and will help pave the way for that.

 

Hope it doesn't end up being a dud.

The reason why we have trouble competing against NPs isn't the doctorate, it's the independent practice.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

The reason why we have trouble competing against NPs isn't the doctorate, it's the independent practice.

And this could lead to that. Further DNPs are preferentially hired to admin positions because of their doctorate, which this could help with so we do more of the hiring and firing.

[Mermaid]

Pretty soon it will be an entry level doctoral program for anyone who wants to spend more money.. And everyone will be better off going to med school.

 

Basically its time to reevaluate the path to becoming a Physician in the US.  They spout off about all these shortages,  but continue on an archaic path

 

 My guess would be it's really about making money.

[db_pavnp]

Next ten years will be super interesting.  I feel you guys are catapulting towards earning an MD and skipping residency to practice as PA / APs.

[Gordon, PA-C]

Pretty soon it will be an entry level doctoral program for anyone who wants to spend more money.. And everyone will be better off going to med school.

 

Basically its time to reevaluate the path to becoming a Physician in the US.  They spout off about all these shortages,  but continue on an archaic path

 

 My guess would be it's really about making money.

 

And after PAs, NPs, and MDs all require an entry level doctorate, then the market will pick a new "medical practitioner" that requires only a bachelors. 

 

This is the inevitable cycle.  As professions mature, the powers that be demand more training, and when the powers that be demand more training, the market steps in and says "this is ridiculous, you don't need a doctorate to treat patients so we are going to create a new class of medical provider"

 

This is the inevitable cycle that will continue.

 

In 50 years there will be 20 different "professions" treating patients, many of which are unknown to us today.

[Marinejiujitsu]

Next ten years will be super interesting. I feel you guys are catapulting towards earning an MD and skipping residency to practice as PA / APs.

Depending on the job some of us have been residents our whole career. Lol. I had one job that we were hired on saying we basically residents and the docs seen every patient after us. I was OK with this at the time because I wanted to learn more.

 

I also heard a resident once say, "It sucks to be a PA, because it's like you're a resident your whole career."

 

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[Mermaid]

And after PAs, NPs, and MDs all require an entry level doctorate, then the market will pick a new "medical practitioner" that requires only a bachelors. 

 

This is the inevitable cycle.  As professions mature, the powers that be demand more training, and when the powers that be demand more training, the market steps in and says "this is ridiculous, you don't need a doctorate to treat patients so we are going to create a new class of medical provider"

 

This is the inevitable cycle that will continue.

 

In 50 years there will be 20 different "professions" treating patients, many of which are unknown to us today.

So true! Lots of irony going on. I really wish we could go back in time and make becoming a medical doctor an apprenticeship.

[EMEDPA]

So true! Lots of irony going on. I really wish we could go back in time and make becoming a medical doctor an apprenticeship.

lots of docs in my family going waaaaaay back. 2 trained in apprenticeship model (father/son) 100 + years ago. one later taught at Harvard med school and got a lab test named after him.

[Marinejiujitsu]

lots of docs in my family going waaaaaay back. 2 trained in apprenticeship model (father/son) 100 + years ago. one later taught at Harvard med school and got a lab test named after him.

Is his name Billy Ruben?

 

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[EMEDPA]

Is his name Billy Ruben?

 

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nope. this is his test:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Councilman_body

[Mermaid]

lots of docs in my family going waaaaaay back. 2 trained in apprenticeship model (father/son) 100 + years ago. one later taught at Harvard med school and got a lab test named after him.

That's awesome! What a great legacy.

[EMEDPA]

That's awesome! What a great legacy.

yup, I'm the red-headed step child in the family. first generation not to go to Harvard either as a student or faculty since it was founded...maybe I can give a lecture there someday and redeem myself....:)