Peen50 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I am a new grad who was just offered a job in a primary care/urgent care clinic in Las Vegas, however, there is a non-compete clause to include time during employment (3 year contract) and 2 years after termination of employment. It specifies that I would not be able to work in a clinic within a 25 mile radius of each clinic (there are 2) which would encompass all of Las Vegas. 1. Does this sound like a standard non-compete clause? If not, what is? 2. Would this prohibit me from working in any primary care AND urgent care clinic? Or would it be primary OR urgent care? Please help a new grad excited for her possible first job!! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebero Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Don't sign. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmdpac Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Every non-compete clause I've seen has been similar. That being said, I agree with the above. Don't sign it. If it doesn't work out, for whatever reason, you'll likely have to move in order to get another job. You don't want to do anything to limit your ability to be employed. As for question number two, I have no idea how they would interpret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrsmurf Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 That is such BS, in a field as large as primary care and in a huge city such as Las Vegas. On top of that, there are only 2 places to work outside the 25 mile radius of Vegas.: Jack and Shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrothers98 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 peen50 here is an interesting link: http://www.albrightstoddard.com/blog/bid/215574/Nevada-s-Treatment-of-Covenants-Not-to-Compete personally i view noncompete as unfairly restrictive for our profession. i agree with the comments above to not sign this. what you are signing is a contract for indentured servitude, not an employment contract. this is a great example of the need to cover issues like this in school. it is also something a state and national pa organization should pay attention to and lobby against. on the other hand, you want a job, need a job. tread lightly here. I would obtain personal legal advice and then enter into any agreement with this employer with your eyes open. i think if an employer is heavy handed at this stage, it is indicative of what they are capable in the future. good luck george brothers pa-c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted April 21, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 21, 2014 from what I have read when these get challenged the courts look at the "reasonable" nature and the ability for you to make a living As well in some states the are illegal for physicians, the courts put the health of a community, rightly, above the protection of a company. LOTS of posts about this on the forum summary Don't sign it - just refuse if they demand something (which is a red flag in itself about their view of you) I would offer a 6 month, 5 mile non-compete. Then maybe go up to 9 months 10 miles. Beyond this is to restrictive and likely would not hold up in court. On other point - most the time for a non-compete to be valid their has to be some 'consideration' paid - IE they have to buy it from you. Of course you don't want to take it to court so just politely decline signing it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynPA-C Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I would obtain personal legal advice and then enter into any agreement with this employer with your eyes open. Agreed, having a lawyer look over any contract is always a good option. In a major metro area 25 miles is completely ridiculous. If they really want to have you they'll negotiate to something reasonable. Otherwise I'd listen to Admiral Ackbar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 21, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 21, 2014 Welcome to the forum George. say hi to the VT gang for me-e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peen50 Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 Thank you everyone! Your responses have reassured me, as I was thinking much along the same line. Greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyJ Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 My red flag is being a 3 year contract. You are a new grad. I wouldn't recommend signing anything for more then a year. You don't even know what you like about medicine yet as a new grad. Also, how many companies actually go after former employees for violating non-compete agreements? I would think a small time FP office maybe, but big healthcare systems don't need to worry about one little provider putting a dent in their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
your mother Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I would call the person you have been dealing with (call don't email - people are more likely to say yes when you talk to them directly). Simply say something like the noncompete makes me uncomfortable because it may limit my ability to provide for my (self, family, spouse - whatever the case may be) when my contract is finished. Is there any way we could move forward without it? Thank you so much for your offer. Than just listen - if they reply with agreeable terms, go for it. If not, have the courage to walk away if it is something you feel strongly enough about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The above advice is good. Many PA contracts are just taken from a physician boilerplate contract and get a PA's name slapped on it. Especially in an urgent care setting where patients walk in, it is not like you will leave and take hundreds of patients with you. Tell them this is not typical for a PA contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstoutpa2003 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm currently in litigation for a restrictive covenant. It's not fun. Today was the preliminary hearing for the arguments for the injunction against me and I don't know where I will have to go for work when I finish my employment next week until the judge reviews all the paperwork. It's a vague, unreasonably termed non-compete clause (IMHO...and my lawyer's opinion as well) which is what I have going for me. It's still a scary experience to think I may be forced to sell my home to move somewhere far enough away that I can work and feed my family. Summing up what I've read in this thread and personal experience, #1) read your proposed contract prior to signing, #2) politely refuse to sign a non-compete or negotiate something that feels reasonable, #3) make sure you can leave your contract earlier than your term length in some manner. Looking back at the contract that I didn't read carefully when I signed it, I can only be fired, incompetent, or move far away to leave my current employment. Regardless of the term length, make sure there is an out for you if you are in a bad situation. The contract I signed wasn't written to benefit me, even though it outlines my salary, benefits and perks. My lawyer states there is not any case law in New York State, and could not find any other in other states, of PAs being held to a restrictive covenant. I believe he researched the same for NPs without result. I believe as there is going to be a large increase in PAs and NPs over the next several years, there will most likely be more cases in many states soon and our respective organizational representatives should be looking into how to assist us, lobby for us, and help us litigate against restrictive covenants that are unreasonable. I'm new here but will try to keep things updated as they progress, if anyone's interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted May 1, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 1, 2014 I'm currently in litigation for a restrictive covenant. It's not fun. Today was the preliminary hearing for the arguments for the injunction against me and I don't know where I will have to go for work when I finish my employment next week until the judge reviews all the paperwork. It's a vague, unreasonably termed non-compete clause (IMHO...and my lawyer's opinion as well) which is what I have going for me. It's still a scary experience to think I may be forced to sell my home to move somewhere far enough away that I can work and feed my family. Summing up what I've read in this thread and personal experience, #1) read your proposed contract prior to signing, #2) politely refuse to sign a non-compete or negotiate something that feels reasonable, #3) make sure you can leave your contract earlier than your term length in some manner. Looking back at the contract that I didn't read carefully when I signed it, I can only be fired, incompetent, or move far away to leave my current employment. Regardless of the term length, make sure there is an out for you if you are in a bad situation. The contract I signed wasn't written to benefit me, even though it outlines my salary, benefits and perks. My lawyer states there is not any case law in New York State, and could not find any other in other states, of PAs being held to a restrictive covenant. I believe he researched the same for NPs without result. I believe as there is going to be a large increase in PAs and NPs over the next several years, there will most likely be more cases in many states soon and our respective organizational representatives should be looking into how to assist us, lobby for us, and help us litigate against restrictive covenants that are unreasonable. I'm new here but will try to keep things updated as they progress, if anyone's interested. Will AAPA step forward to help defend so as to set a precedent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstoutpa2003 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I haven't asked. Never thought about asking until reading this thread. I'd entertain suggestions and any help at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoRyou Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Help me understand ... Why would an employee NOT someone to work at a certain radius? We are talking about human lives here. I have never heard anything like this before. How strange is this? Is this the new norm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 2, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 2, 2014 Help me understand ... Why would an employee NOT someone to work at a certain radius? We are talking about human lives here. I have never heard anything like this before. How strange is this? Is this the new norm? non-compete clauses are designed to keep employees at a practice. for example, you come work for me for a yr as a new grad, I train you, etc, then you go work across the street for the competition once you know what you are doing and take your patients with you to the new practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I just yesterday requested modification of the wording of one. As worded, in urgent care, it could have been restrictive with regard to EM/IM/FP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I'm currently in litigation for a restrictive covenant. It's not fun. Today was the preliminary hearing for the arguments for the injunction against me and I don't know where I will have to go for work when I finish my employment next week until the judge reviews all the paperwork. It's a vague, unreasonably termed non-compete clause (IMHO...and my lawyer's opinion as well) which is what I have going for me. It's still a scary experience to think I may be forced to sell my home to move somewhere far enough away that I can work and feed my family. Summing up what I've read in this thread and personal experience, #1) read your proposed contract prior to signing, #2) politely refuse to sign a non-compete or negotiate something that feels reasonable, #3) make sure you can leave your contract earlier than your term length in some manner. Looking back at the contract that I didn't read carefully when I signed it, I can only be fired, incompetent, or move far away to leave my current employment. Regardless of the term length, make sure there is an out for you if you are in a bad situation. The contract I signed wasn't written to benefit me, even though it outlines my salary, benefits and perks. My lawyer states there is not any case law in New York State, and could not find any other in other states, of PAs being held to a restrictive covenant. I believe he researched the same for NPs without result. I believe as there is going to be a large increase in PAs and NPs over the next several years, there will most likely be more cases in many states soon and our respective organizational representatives should be looking into how to assist us, lobby for us, and help us litigate against restrictive covenants that are unreasonable. I'm new here but will try to keep things updated as they progress, if anyone's interested. Yes, keep us informed. Can your lawyer call this a restraint of trade as your ability to work depends on your SP and now with leaving they are depriving you of your livelihood? Contracts are not written for the benefit of the employee, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoRyou Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Contracts are not written for the benefit of the employee, ever. As sad as this is, it is all too familiar with any profession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstoutpa2003 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 To date, going to court has more to do with the injunction to prevent me from working at my next job. If there is a preliminary injunction it will be temporary, then it will go to trial and there will be more arguments about the rest of everything. Right now, if my lawyer can prove the non-compete clause I have is not valid, there is the possibility this is done. There is still the breach of contract, which brings me back to my third point from my previous comments. Make sure you can leave of your own free will. The contract from my first job required 90 days notice if I was going to end employment with them. I thought if I wanted to leave my current job and I gave my current employer 90 days that I was being generous and honorable, allowing him time to plan for staffing at the time of my departure. Unfortunately, it just gave him more time to plan his offense in regards to this lawsuit. In addition, when it comes to business/money - trust no one. I felt I had a very good personal and business relationship with my supervising MD/employer and was given a lot of opportunity when it came to opening and building a new Urgent Care office. When it became an overwhelming task to keep the office running at the expense my family and my son with Asperger's, I gave into an offer from the local hospital to take a job that gave me the schedule/income I wanted. The job description is technically different, but there would be some indirect competition. I was honest with my supervising MD/employer about the what, why, and where I was going. It has resulted in me being sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 My request for rewording of a NCC, as well as an increase in hourly rate for compensation as a result of not being aware that a position I'm considering is as an independent contractor ("uh guys, it would've been nice of you to have mentioned this upfront") apparently isn't going over too well since I haven't received a response from any of the primaries. I asked them to make the NCC less restrictive and to bump up the hourly rate, and quoted the hourly rates that had been attached in another thread for urgent care workers. Since there are no benefits to this position I would in reality accept an extra $4/hr. though the survey said as much as $9/hr. more ("meet in the middle"). Close proximity and only 24-30 hours/week would be my side of the compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted May 3, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2014 My request for rewording of a NCC, as well as an increase in hourly rate for compensation as a result of not being aware that a position I'm considering is as an independent contractor ("uh guys, it would've been nice of you to have mentioned this upfront") apparently isn't going over too well since I haven't received a response from any of the primaries. I asked them to make the NCC less restrictive and to bump up the hourly rate, and quoted the hourly rates that had been attached in another thread for urgent care workers. Since there are no benefits to this position I would in reality accept an extra $4/hr. though the survey said as much as $9/hr. more ("meet in the middle"). Close proximity and only 24-30 hours/week would be my side of the compromise. IC status will not fly with the state nor the IRS in an UC setting - it is jut plain wrong say no thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I told he/them that as well in my email dissertation. Don't think the state will care since we don't have an income tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted May 3, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2014 not just income but unemployment taxes and workers comp...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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