JTR Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I too am in litigation in nys. Company supposedly sold practice, deal fell through & I'm helping out in holistic practice few times hours a week. The lawyer thing is a joke....you got $10k for a retainer. Getting the covenants removed from contract is also a joke....good luck with that. So former sleazy employer ( staff was great on site though) hires big deal law firm to pursue this. I'm pro se, but got TRO lifted. All case law they used to back up their suit is MD who were partners and left. In NYS since PA can't own a practice, so therefore it would be pretty hard to hurt them an office w/ 18000 pt visits/yr. it's all about intimidation and making PA lose $ till they cave in. NYSSPA not helpful, AAPA not helpful. They refer you to very expensive law firms.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstoutpa2003 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I have found my experience the same with respect to the AAPA and NYSSPA - "Sorry to hear about your troubles. Here are some law firms that might be helpful." An update to my own situation, the judge ended up granting the temporary injunction and giving the non-compete even more power than it had in the contract. Being from a small rural community, there are several theories as to why this has happened, but most of the attorneys I've spoke to on a casual basis think that because there is not specific case law for PAs, the easy/lazy thing to do was grant the injunction so it could go to trial. If there is any good news to the injunction, the former emplyer has to put up $150k for an "undertaking" which when this does go to trial, there will be money put aside for my financial losses due to the lawsuit. So now I've got a job where I'm making 2/3rds the money without benefits. I am fortunate that I still have the support of the hospital I was going to go to work for as well as the community. A social media campaign was started by friends/former patients to at least create awareness when it came to the sleazy former employer and there has been some impact from that. Another suggestion would be to carefully scrutinize the billing practices of your former employer and start making phone calls and filling out forms for the NYS Department of Finances, Medicare, and the Department of Labor. If you can cut 18000 visits to 16000 and have insurances start taking back a few grand every month, it makes it difficult to afford the big time law firm. It seems to take a lot of squeaking to get the wheels turning when it comes to government/insurance agencies to start looking at the claims you're making, but when they start to ask to see the books it will certainly focus attention and money away from you. I'm looking forward to hearing the results as multiple agencies start looking into my former employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 ^^^^^ Be careful that you don't inadvertently incriminate yourself. If your previous employer was billing wrong for you under the "incident to" rules of CMS you will be held liable too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Not really sure WHY any "non-physician" practicing medicine would sign one... EVERYtime one was included (3x), I simply ran a delete line (strike through) through it and initialed it and then had them sign. I just wouldn't sign ANYTHING promising NOT to earn $$$ to support my family/self. But hey, that's just how I roll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stellahead Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 It's easy for people to tell you not to sign it, or to delete it. But when it's your first job out of PA school, you have no marbles to bargain with. It's tough. There's another new grad behind you who will sign it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 ^^^ Nonsense^^^ The FIRST time I declined the NCC nonsense with a strike through WAS as a NEW GRAD... Didn't care WHO was "behind me." But then again, I'm Ole Skool former Military Medic combat vet, EMT-P/LPN/RN/FNP/PA... Signing ANYTHING that limits ones ability to earn is/has always been ill advised. Why...??? Because as a "Dependent Practitioner"... we really CAN't "compete" on a level playing field with independent practitioner. A potential SP could/would but we can't. Example: FP PA joins small town Solo FP Physician practice and signs NCC... works 4 yrs with NO raise/bonus then gets fired when the PA pushes for raise/bonus. To avoid having to up-root the family/sell house/relocate... FP PA then goes down street and gets hired by different FP Solo physician... The competition is and has always been between the two solo FPs . Its NOT between a Independent provider (physician) and a Dependent provider (PA). Now think about how absurd this example is when applied to Subspecialty Dependent providers... Dependent providers are often considered the "agent of" their Independent supervisors/sponsors... So basically, signing a NCC is agreeing to NOT work FOR competition that has already existed. This is silly when you consider that their "competition" didn't sign a agreement to not compete. So: Independent Doc A is a solo Derm Physician and sees 45 patients a day in her practice. Independent Doc B is a solo Derm Physician and sees 45 patients a day in his practice which is 6 blocks away from Doc A. DEPENDENT PA-C gets hired by Doc A and Signs a 2 yr NCC. DEPENDENT PA-C gets fired after 3 yrs. DEPENDENT PA-C gets recruited by Doc B but is stymied by the NCC. DEPENDENT PA-C now has to sell house, pull kids out of school and move family AGAIN out of area just to work. Independent Doc B is still/has never stopped competing with Doc A because he is still seeing 45 patients a day in his practice which is 6 blocks away from Doc A. Furthermore, Independent Doc B withdraws his employment offer and simply hires a different PA (Or NP) who was smart enough to NEVER sign something as ridiculous as a NCC. Now Please tell me again what the NCC has done for Doc A's "competition"...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 ^^^^^ So glad you are back on the forum!!!! Good advice given here that all new PAs need to take and implement in their first and subsequent contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstoutpa2003 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 ^^^ Nonsense^^^ The FIRST time I declined the NCC nonsense with a strike through WAS as a NEW GRAD... Didn't care WHO was "behind me." But then again, I'm Ole Skool former Military Medic combat vet, EMT-P/LPN/RN/FNP/PA... Signing ANYTHING that limits ones ability to earn is/has always been ill advised. Why...??? Because as a "Dependent Practitioner"... we really CAN't "compete" on a level playing field with independent practitioner. A potential SP could/would but we can't. Example: FP PA joins small town Solo FP Physician practice and signs NCC... works 4 yrs with NO raise/bonus then gets fired when the PA pushes for raise/bonus. To avoid having to up-root the family/sell house/relocate... FP PA then goes down street and gets hired by different FP Solo physician... The competition is and has always been between the two solo FPs . Its NOT between a Independent provider (physician) and a Dependent provider (PA). Now think about how absurd this example is when applied to Subspecialty Dependent providers... Dependent providers are often considered the "agent of" their Independent supervisors/sponsors... So basically, signing a NCC is agreeing to NOT work FOR competition that has already existed. This is silly when you consider that their "competition" didn't sign a agreement to not compete. So: Independent Doc A is a solo Derm Physician and sees 45 patients a day in her practice. Independent Doc B is a solo Derm Physician and sees 45 patients a day in his practice which is 6 blocks away from Doc A. DEPENDENT PA-C gets hired by Doc A and Signs a 2 yr NCC. DEPENDENT PA-C gets fired after 3 yrs. DEPENDENT PA-C gets recruited by Doc B but is stymied by the NCC. DEPENDENT PA-C now has to sell house, pull kids out of school and move family AGAIN out of area just to work. Independent Doc B is still/has never stopped competing with Doc A because he is still seeing 45 patients a day in his practice which is 6 blocks away from Doc A. Furthermore, Independent Doc B withdraws his employment offer and simply hires a different PA (Or NP) who was smart enough to NEVER sign something as ridiculous as a NCC. Now Please tell me again what the NCC has done for Doc A's "competition"...? Believe me, in addition to your post, I do feel like an idiot for not addressing the NCC when I signed. I've had non-competes in contracts before and in the rural, underserved community that I live, I've not been challenged in this way before. I got over-confident when i heard from enough lawyers/medical professionals that these clauses do not stand up in court. I gambled and lost, temporarily. An expensive trial will decide things one way or the other. But you are right, and my lesson/your advice will hopefully help those signing their first/next contract with regard to a non-compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 "Non-Compete Clauses" make perfect sense for established practices hiring Physicians... and even NPs in certain settings. Not so with PAs due to our "dependent" status. NEVER SIGN ONE...!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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