Timon Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 You guys are arguing with a KID that still lives in his/her mom's house... but just happens to know EVERYTHING about this profession and the clinical practice of medicine. Why bother....???? Personally I stopped doing this when my middle child turned 19 and moved out on her own. I'll be honest I almost feel like some of these posts are just really good trollers... And we all bit to their trolling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Pipe Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 kcma79 please point out ONE time that I said anything about how I did in highschool. And Timon, I'm an EMT-B, which is why I was comfortable saying how basic it is. I'm going to bed now though, goodnight everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I said "I haven't been through PA school so I can't argue whether or not they thoroughly teach the basics" I actually agreed that advanced HCE like yours would have a huge overlap, but I believe that if someone cannot go through a PA program that accepts those with no HCE and cannot come out a good PA, the curriculum should be changed. I am still very genuinely curious whether or not there are things left out of PA programs because they except student to have known these things from their HCE. The real value of HCE is not what skills you may have but in the intangibles that the HCE brings in terms of empathy, compassion, caring all those things that are not taught in PA school but learned through life experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Pipe Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 The real value of HCE in not what skills you may have but in the intangibles that the HCE brings in terms of empathy, compassion, caring all those things that are not taught in PA school but learned through life experience. I agree with this and will keep it in mind. I just disagree that HCE would have a big impact technical skills after pa school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted January 6, 2013 Administrator Share Posted January 6, 2013 The real value of HCE in not what skills you may have but in the intangibles that the HCE brings in terms of empathy, compassion, caring all those things that are not taught in PA school but learned through life experience. ... not to mention judgment. You can read about all sorts of things in books, watch YouTube videos until you're blue in the face, and practice skills on other healthy students, but until you've been there and done that, it's all just book learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timon Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 kcma79 please point out ONE time that I said anything about how I did in highschool. And Timon, I'm an EMT-B, which is why I was comfortable saying how basic it is. I'm going to bed now though, goodnight everyone. Because you're an EMT-B doesn't validate that it's basic. Did what I mention to you sound basic? Again.. Your experience is what you make of it. There are good EMTs and mindless ones.. Be more specific when you down experience and say IFT.. You're doing a disservice to those who respond to 911 calls and ER Techs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Because you're an EMT-B doesn't validate that it's basic. Did what I mention to you sound basic? Again.. Your experience is what you make of it. There are good EMTs and mindless ones.. Be more specific when you down experience and say IFT.. You're doing a disservice to those who respond to 911 calls and ER Techs.. But that's what KIDS who know everything do... You guys are debating with someone who isn't paying for the internet they are using, has never paid rent or a utility bill, can't legally have sex or vote, buy a beer or cigarettes, and MAY have been driving 6 months to a Yr... but got it all figured out. Its folly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Pipe Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name=Contrarian;372480 You guys are debating with someone who isn't paying for the internet they are using' date=' has never paid rent or a utility bill, can't legally have sex or vote, buy a beer or cigarettes, and MAY have been driving 6 months to a Yr... but got it all figured out. Its folly...[/quote] I don't do ift. Does my age make my points less valid? I've specifically not said anything too related to me personally for a reason, I know that my experience is limited and I'd be ripped apart. I'm getting a lot out of this but I feel like some people are getting really offended; I'm just playing devil's advocate for a lot of this as it's something I've been thinking a lot about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Does my age make my points less valid? NO... Your lack of REAL WORLD life experiences in general and Medical/Clinical world experiences specifically... due to your age (time spent on this planet) does. Its a classic case that we have all seen and experienced. You know... remember those guys we all went to mddle and high school with who thought they were the authority in gurls and sexual relations, but we all knew that they were still virgins....:heheh: Every Kingdom that enthroned a child king fell... Why.... ???? Because the child king didn't have the viceral/common/natural knowledge, wisdom and understanding that can only be gained from breathing 20% atmospheric O2 in various settings, under various conditions for 2.5 decades or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMill Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Here's a thought. A lot of these posts have been touting massive HCE before PA school. Of course that is great. But, in this society all professionals start from college. MD, OD, engineer, lawyer, etc. You start in college, then go directly to grad school/med/law. While in the masters/med school/law school you get a lot of "life experience". But, even though it's probably jammed-packed it's not the same as being a practicing professional. After graduating you go out into the real world where your education continues on the job. You don't need to go to college then work in an allied field and then apply to any professional school, etc. I agree that there is tremendous merit in getting allied experience before PA school. But, I am doing the 5 year route. I think more and more will go this route, too. I think it will be typical just like all other professions. And, there will probably be more requirements, more months, longer rotations, and residencies. The profession will evolve. We high schoolers that you are so oh "sigh" bothered with will do just fine, thank-you veer much. Maybe out of the gate the returning student has more life experience, maybe we'll be able to more quickly grasp changing technology or have more energy, or devote 100% because we don't have family to support or gasp teenagers to deal with or paying rent, etc. Will bring fresh ideas. For example, some of us read other posts about a name change from assistant to associate. We have other ideas. Just remember, 5 years from now we'll all be PA and we ALL will be continuing to learn on the job and our unique qualities and perspectives will continue to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cac4488 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 But that's what KIDS who know everything do... You guys are debating with someone who isn't paying for the internet they are using, has never paid rent or a utility bill, can't legally have sex or vote, buy a beer or cigarettes, and MAY have been driving 6 months to a Yr... but got it all figured out. Its folly... Agree 100%. Waste of time and energy. This self-righteousness, arrogance, stubbornness... This narrow view of the world... Trademark of the age. Unwavering. Part of the problem with putting them in patient care positions. But I'm sure they'll do "just fine". I'm sure no one will mind hearing they have cancer or a loved one has died from a well-seasoned 23 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted January 6, 2013 Administrator Share Posted January 6, 2013 But, in this society all professionals start from college. MD, OD, engineer, lawyer, etc. You start in college, then go directly to grad school/med/law. While in the masters/med school/law school you get a lot of "life experience". But, even though it's probably jammed-packed it's not the same as being a practicing professional. After graduating you go out into the real world where your education continues on the job. Nice job of defining "professional" so that we're forced to either accept PAs without HCE or relinquish our status as professionals. That's a nice high school debating trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Pipe Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I've spoken with a lot of PAs in the area and all have encouraged the 5-year route. There are lots of seasoned PAs, not just arrogant kids, who agree with me. If you are going to discredit my argument because I haven't had enough life experience, than this discussion is pointless. I actually find the difference between the PAs views on this forum and those that I've spoken to in person very interesting. I think it might have something to do with location (?), as live in the northeast, where most of these programs are located and in an area where most PAs will practice with someone who went through a 5 year program. I realize though that the only way your minds will be changed is seeing a competent, empathetic, compassionate PA who has gone through a 5-year program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnfoster Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 The "entry level" refers to direct entry for the first 4 undergrad years of the 0-6 program with a guaranteed "seat" in the 27 month grad PA portion (dependent upon specific GPA maintained). It does *not* refer to the "end product" of the program producing a PA prepared to take the PANCE exam and practice as a PA. FWIW...I have about 10 years of HCE myself... PA and "entry level" don't belong in the same paragraph. If you (since you are representing your child) had one day of HCE you would understand how of base you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorRRT Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 When Duke and Yale decide direct entry programs are appropriate, then I'll reconsider my stance. I'm sorry, but I don't think being a high school senior with a decent GPA/SAT score earns a spot at "the big kids table". For anyone considering these direct entry programs, remember that admittance into the professional portion is not guaranteed unless certain GPAs are maintained. It's not as much of a "sure thing" as it has been represented by its proponents on the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Pipe Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 When Duke and Yale decide direct entry programs are appropriate, then I'll reconsider my stance. I'm sorry, but I don't think being a high school senior with a decent GPA/SAT score earns a spot at "the big kids table". For anyone considering these direct entry programs, remember that admittance into the professional portion is not guaranteed unless certain GPAs are maintained. It's not as much of a "sure thing" as it has been represented by its proponents on the thread. Of course it's not a sure thing, if it was than this would be a whole different discussion and I would agree that it would be a horrible idea. Duke and Yale are very reputable programs, but some of the direct entry programs are good as well. Check out Quinnipiac, Duquesne, and Drexel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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