College kids being discouraged?

[sartort]

Some doctors didn't get into PA school and became a physician instead. If the reason he is choosing PA over MD is because he's afraid of being rejected then I feel sad for him. There's not much worse than letting a lack of confidence hold you back in life at such a young age. It's nice that you plan to help him financially, but I do believe I worked harder because I did it on my own and will continue to do so because I am the only one responsible for my debt. Making decisions alone, including what to spend the last of your money on at the end of the month, helps you grow up a bit.

 

Getting into PA school so early is a great achievement and your whole family should be proud, but he should choose it for the right reasons.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[nnfoster]

I respect your experience as a PA and as a parent...and originally I advocated for the top liberal arts school with his grades/test scores and prep school educational experience :) But, this is a serious young man who gets up at 7am on weekends to do homework, is organized, methodical and practical and wants a college program that will provide him with a profession, employment and paycheck after graduation !

Additionally...we're a middle class family...and 4 years at a good liberal arts college will run about $220,000...then add on the cost of PA grad school at an additional $100K+ and we cannot afford that. A 6 year program now, with merit scholarship will run about $180K total, and that will be a stretch as it is.

By pure numbers, it also appears much harder to get a seat in a grad school PA program...one told us 2800 applicants for 75 seats as opposed to 150 applicants for direct entry.

As far as pigeon-holing...appears no different to select a six PA program that to select a 6 yr PharmD or DPT program at age 18.

 

I do not mean this in an offensive way. Based on 75 hrs of shadowing and some sort of minimal volunteer work I submit that your son doesn't have a clue what the PA world is like. Most 17-18 year olds don't know what they really want to do with their life. I have known/taught/precepted too many 3rd yr med students that discovered when they encountered patients for the first time they really didn't like medicine. I have also encountered many service academy graduates who fall into the same trap. They enter at 17-18 graduate and the first thing on their mind is how soon can I get out. They are also, as a group, among the most cynical people I have ever met. Someone graduating from HS shouldn't be pigeonholed so early.

 

Let him go to a good liberal arts school for undergrad and if at the end he still wants to be a PA go for it. I'm speaking to you not only as an experienced PA but also as a parent who has been down this road.

 

Now, before anyone starts asking for a cite, I don't have a double blind peer reviewed study to refer you too. This is based solely on my experience (33 yrs as a PA), opinion and being a parent.

 

People come here with preconceived notions asking for advice, thoughts etc. and when those aren't affimed they feel they are being discouraged. Most of the PAs on this board offer advice, thoughts based on their experience, not to affirm your opinions/thoughts or hold your hand. This isn't Little League.

[nnfoster]

I'm the one with the time to read forums and blogs...said son is busy earning that 3.97 GPA and taking the EMT class and visiting colleges.

Works for us...YMMV

He also doesn't text or use Facebook. Spends his rare moments of free time running or reading the Wall St Journal.

Hence, smarter and wiser than mom already.

I came here looking for ideas, trends and insights...not insults

 

Exactly!!!!

[nnfoster]

I hope you are not as sarcastic to your patients...

 

Kinda Humorous that this vociferous poster screen named "nnfoster" selected "pre-pa" instead of "Other" as a descriptor...

 

So are we to believe that this poster is going to follow in his "Son's" footsteps... ????

 

Yeah... ok... right...!!!

 

:heheh: Carry On....

[cac4488]

...not worth it.

[KMill]

Why do some people say that about wanting PA major high school? Not a peep about the tons of my classmates who are majoring in nursing!

[MokahFitChick]

I respect your experience as a PA and as a parent...and originally I advocated for the top liberal arts school with his grades/test scores and prep school educational experience :) But, this is a serious young man who gets up at 7am on weekends to do homework, is organized, methodical and practical and wants a college program that will provide him with a profession, employment and paycheck after graduation !

Additionally...we're a middle class family...and 4 years at a good liberal arts college will run about $220,000...then add on the cost of PA grad school at an additional $100K+ and we cannot afford that. A 6 year program now, with merit scholarship will run about $180K total, and that will be a stretch as it is.

By pure numbers, it also appears much harder to get a seat in a grad school PA program...one told us 2800 applicants for 75 seats as opposed to 150 applicants for direct entry.

As far as pigeon-holing...appears no different to select a six PA program that to select a 6 yr PharmD or DPT program at age 18.

 

No 4-year degree should run $220,000 that is way too much. What school are you speaking of?

[GatorRRT]

Why do some people say that about wanting PA major high school? Not a peep about the tons of my classmates who are majoring in nursing!

 

Because nurses DO NOT PRACTICE MEDICINE.

[NEPA]

No 4-year degree should run $220,000 that is way too much. What school are you speaking of?

 

 

Plenty of colleges are $50K+/year (which is absurd). Look at Tufts or BU.

[KMill]

Well, what about Pre-Med? Do you have a problem with that? What is the difference? What about kids going into a pharmacy program...gee they dispense meds that could harm? My point is that I have the foresight to get into a 5 year BS/MS program. Just because some kids went to school and majored in whatever and then a lightbulb went off & they said "gee, I want to be a PA because I have been working as an EMT or whatever" doesn't mean I don't have the same right, now. I am 17. Duh, I know you have it mrs together. But, I have a 4.0 and that's all of junior & senior high school, I take a lot of AP, I am an aide in Spanish classes, want to minor in Spanish for Medicine which is offered at a lot of the PA schools, have my CNA, GNA, competing in SkillsUSA for medical terminology, & am doing Surg. Tech this semester. Last I checked, no one in the ER says "Excuse me, did you graduate from Harvard medical school right after you graduated from college with a degree in basket weaving or did you first spend a few years as an EMT, R.N. Before going to med school?". I cannot wait to my 4th & 5th year to take classes with a bunch of jealous students who begrudge me my spot in PA & a degree at age 22 v. 42!

[nnfoster]

agree they should not cost $220K...but they do :(

Wheaton, Connecticut College, Amherst, Williams, Tufts, etc etc, even BU and BC, Northeastern...$54K is the new normal for 4 yrs

 

No 4-year degree should run $220,000 that is way too much. What school are you speaking of?

[vet-up]

I'm the one with the time to read forums and blogs...said son is busy earning that 3.97 GPA and taking the EMT class and visiting colleges.

Works for us...YMMV

He also doesn't text or use Facebook. Spends his rare moments of free time running or reading the Wall St Journal.

Hence, smarter and wiser than mom already.

I came here looking for ideas, trends and insights...not insults

 

Tell him to join the military and become a medic where he can get a serious medical experience. From there he will kwow what is his passion.

[KCMA79]

Why do some people say that about wanting PA major high school? Not a peep about the tons of my classmates who are majoring in nursing!

 

Because this is a PA forum and it would be comparing apples and oranges. The employer expectations of new grad nurses and PAs are very different.

[KMill]

Because this is a PA forum and it would be comparing apples and oranges. The employer expectations of new grad nurses and PAs are very different.

Please see my earlier post today

[cac4488]

Maturity level is important when becoming a PA also. Something suddenly reminded me of how important that is... (possibly the use of "duh" in an argument over how prepared you are)... And how different it is to be a 24-27 yr old med student interacting with patients or a post-HCE PA at 25+. All the good grades in the world won't make up for life experience. At 17, frankly, you don't even know what you don't know.

[Lead Pipe]

It's so interesting to see how the PAs on this forum want the PA profession to become more respected, and yet are discouraging smart highschoolers from becoming PAs! I'm not talking about the people who are telling us that there's a "glass ceiling," I think that that's a really good point and something that should be considered, but the people that say we're not mature enough or have enough life experience to make the decision. Of course there's uncertainty, no one can know their future for sure, but there are people my age deciding to join the military! Committing to any major is a risk! All of the 0-5/6 programs require the students to gain 300+ hours of HCE before the didactic year, so you should be able to tell whether or not it's for you before the actual PA program starts. If you look at the stats of these programs, you'll see that they're getting kids in probably the top 5th percentile. It should be encouraging that such smart students want to be in your profession!

[GatorRRT]

Well, what about Pre-Med? Do you have a problem with that? What is the difference? What about kids going into a pharmacy program...gee they dispense meds that could harm? My point is that I have the foresight to get into a 5 year BS/MS program. Just because some kids went to school and majored in whatever and then a lightbulb went off & they said "gee, I want to be a PA because I have been working as an EMT or whatever" doesn't mean I don't have the same right, now. I am 17. Duh, I know you have it mrs together. But, I have a 4.0 and that's all of junior & senior high school, I take a lot of AP, I am an aide in Spanish classes, want to minor in Spanish for Medicine which is offered at a lot of the PA schools, have my CNA, GNA, competing in SkillsUSA for medical terminology, & am doing Surg. Tech this semester. Last I checked, no one in the ER says "Excuse me, did you graduate from Harvard medical school right after you graduated from college with a degree in basket weaving or did you first spend a few years as an EMT, R.N. Before going to med school?". I cannot wait to my 4th & 5th year to take classes with a bunch of jealous students who begrudge me my spot in PA & a degree at age 22 v. 42!

 

With the way grade/GPA inflation has taken over in our "everyone gets a trophy" society, I'm not impressed. I'm sorry, but to practice at the level of a professional, you need to prove yourself at the collegiate level.

[Lead Pipe]

With the way grade/GPA inflation has taken over in our "everyone gets a trophy" society, I'm not impressed. I'm sorry, but to practice at the level of a professional, you need to prove yourself at the collegiate level.

 

That's why SAT scores and AP scores are considered in admission, and why all of these programs have a minimum GPA that must be maintained throughout college.

[Will352ns]

I cannot wait to my 4th & 5th year to take classes with a bunch of jealous students who begrudge me my spot in PA & a degree at age 22 v. 42!

 

The argument against students who are too young....just made...by you. You will do well learning to control your emotions. Those 42 year old students won't actually give you a second thought. In the adult world, things are a little different.

 

You haven't been accepted to PA school, stop calling yourself a PA student! You have a conditional spot if you maintain a 3.2 in your undergrad studies. The couple of schools that recruit HS students, do it because you are guaranteed revenue...if you stick with the program. You may want to look into that BTW, you may be suprized how many don't. That said, good on you...but don't get cocky.

 

You don't even have, nor are you even close to an undergrad degree (something most of us have already accomplished). You won't even start actual PA training for another 3 years.

 

As a side note: 3.2 is all you have to manage. That will not get most folks into a traditional school; the average acceptance GPA is about 3.5. Those older students who will be in your class did the same pre-recs yet had to maintain a much higher GPA to get in. Many will have done it while working full time. It's great you think you have it made, again...good for you. But a little humility goes a long way. Some of us didn't have mommy and daddy fronting our education. We had to graduate high school and get a job. I do envy your position, but I do not hold it against you...you earned it....this is the difference between an adult and a child.

 

Get through your undergrad and do well. Learn as much as you can. Be a good PA and stick with it....be humble....

[rev ronin]

It's so interesting to see how the PAs on this forum want the PA profession to become more respected, and yet are discouraging smart highschoolers from becoming PAs!

 

Not so interesting, when you realize that the "respect" of the PA profession is based on competence, not raw intelligence. Any PA who wins a Nobel prize should have been in Med School, research science, or both. The trajectory of respect in the PA profession is not based on emulating the scope of MDs, but rather by being very, very good as PAs. Highschoolers add nothing to that trajectory. Once they've gotten years of life and HCE under their belts, then they're no longer high schoolers...

[rev ronin]

Those 42 year old students won't actually give you a second thought.

 

Actually, no. I helped a couple of my graduating classmates with their interview processes for their first post-school positions, since neither had ever interviewed for a professional job before. But since I've had more job interviews than I can count, been a hiring manager, fired people, and the like (find me a high schooler with that experience? Didn't think so.) I have a lot more experience that can benefit these peers of mine.

[Lead Pipe]

Not so interesting, when you realize that the "respect" of the PA profession is based on competence, not raw intelligence. Any PA who wins a Nobel prize should have been in Med School, research science, or both. The trajectory of respect in the PA profession is not based on emulating the scope of MDs, but rather by being very, very good as PAs. Highschoolers add nothing to that trajectory. Once they've gotten years of life and HCE under their belts, then they're no longer high schoolers...

 

I would argue that raw intelligence often correlates with competence, & that MOST (there are always exceptions) highly intelligent individuals who go through a really good PA program will become competent and knowledgeable providers.

 

It's important to note that the respect of the profession has a lot to do with the attitudes of those in it. Instead of the PA profession being sort of a "well I didn't know when I was younger that I should have gone to med school...I guess this will do," people are seeing this is the profession that the "smart kids" are going into.

[Lead Pipe]

Actually, no. I helped a couple of my graduating classmates with their interview processes for their first post-school positions, since neither had ever interviewed for a professional job before. But since I've had more job interviews than I can count, been a hiring manager, fired people, and the like (find me a high schooler with that experience? Didn't think so.) I have a lot more experience that can benefit these peers of mine.

 

A new grad in any profession will not have interviewed for a job before...does this correlate with how good they will be at their job?

[KMill]

With the way grade/GPA inflation has taken over in our "everyone gets a trophy" society, I'm not impressed. I'm sorry, but to practice at the level of a professional, you need to prove yourself at the collegiate level.

 

That is why all the PA programs I looked into made it clear that for the first 3 years of college, you have to maintain a high GPA before you start the Professional phase just like everyone else getting into the 2 year Post-Bac program. We just had the foresight and the gumption to apply now instead of after graduating from college. Every person comes to their own path in life. Maybe some, like me, know what I want at age 17. Maybe I will find a different path, and maybe you will, too. Maybe some flounder through college and then think of the PA field. Maybe some couldn't make it into medical school so they think being a PA is the next best thing. Maybe some are kicking themselves wishing they had even heard of the PA profession and pursued the BS/MS route straight from high school. Maybe some are anxious because they have to flit over the whole country interviewing for a spot and feel that they are now somehow entitled to be a PA more than someone who had the foresight to do it early in their career. And, don't forget that during the first 3 years of college, every school requires "hands-on" HCE. I just happen to have some of it already done. I wish you well as a PA and hope you feel that when the rest of us get our degrees in 5 years that we may actually be just, if not more, prepared then someone who got a 4 year college degree and then went back to get the PA!

[Contrarian]

But, this is a serious young man who gets up at 7am on weekends to do homework, is organized, methodical and practical and wants a college program that will provide him with a profession, employment and paycheck after graduation !

 

I'm the one with the time to read forums and blogs...said son is busy earning that 3.97 GPA and taking the EMT class and visiting colleges.

Works for us...YMMV

He also doesn't text or use Facebook. Spends his rare moments of free time running or reading the Wall St Journal.

Hence, smarter and wiser than mom already.

I came here looking for ideas, trends and insights...not insults

 

You were given them.

They just don't fit your world view or pre-concieved notions about this profession or even the REAL world of clinical medicine.

 

If you are leaning your son away from MD/DO school because of $$$ HE (not you) will likely have regrets later. $250k in student loans to become a physician can easily be paid off by a multitude of programs with commitments.

 

If the "social stunting" you posted above is even partially true... your son is a EXCELLENT candidate with great potential for many MD programs and MOST DO programs.

 

But of course... YOU, he and every other 17 yr old on the planet know better than those who have been or is standing squarely where you claim he is headed.

 

Ok... carry on...