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Lead Pipe

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Everything posted by Lead Pipe

  1. Of course it's not a sure thing, if it was than this would be a whole different discussion and I would agree that it would be a horrible idea. Duke and Yale are very reputable programs, but some of the direct entry programs are good as well. Check out Quinnipiac, Duquesne, and Drexel.
  2. I've spoken with a lot of PAs in the area and all have encouraged the 5-year route. There are lots of seasoned PAs, not just arrogant kids, who agree with me. If you are going to discredit my argument because I haven't had enough life experience, than this discussion is pointless. I actually find the difference between the PAs views on this forum and those that I've spoken to in person very interesting. I think it might have something to do with location (?), as live in the northeast, where most of these programs are located and in an area where most PAs will practice with someone who went thr
  3. [quote name=Contrarian;372480 You guys are debating with someone who isn't paying for the internet they are using' date=' has never paid rent or a utility bill, can't legally have sex or vote, buy a beer or cigarettes, and MAY have been driving 6 months to a Yr... but got it all figured out. Its folly...[/quote] I don't do ift. Does my age make my points less valid? I've specifically not said anything too related to me personally for a reason, I know that my experience is limited and I'd be ripped apart. I'm getting a lot out of this but I feel like some people are getting really o
  4. I agree with this and will keep it in mind. I just disagree that HCE would have a big impact technical skills after pa school.
  5. kcma79 please point out ONE time that I said anything about how I did in highschool. And Timon, I'm an EMT-B, which is why I was comfortable saying how basic it is. I'm going to bed now though, goodnight everyone.
  6. I think nnfoster is confusing "entry level" with "direct entry." They are very different.
  7. Yes you're right, I was confusing things. Please respond to my other points though, I'm curious as to what you have to say. I'd also like to add that the reason I keep pushing back is that I know someday you will all be my colleges, and I'd like a fair shot to not be looked at as inferior or incompetent upon based on the way I became a PA. (which I know will come more through my actions and those of other direct entry grads, but i have to at least try)
  8. The profession also started based on the idea that PAs should be in primary care. I only see it as a weakness if these types of PA programs accept students like me. There are some schools that require lots of hce and build on that knowledge. I'm totally fine with this and like it, but I REALLY hope that my program is not structured the same way, as I don't have the extensive hce that some of you have. If these 0-5 programs are showing that they can produce good PAs right out of college, why not encourage it? I think the high rate of hiring from the physicians where the students did cl
  9. I can't be sure on this, the two that I shadowed from direct entry programs were definitely not hired as "doctor's little helpers" but I can't speak for the rest of them. Based on the average salary of the graduating class, they were at least paid with a pa's salary.
  10. If someone goes through their clinical portion and doesn't feel prepared...then they should do a pa residency! This has turned into more of a curriculum issue than anything else, of which I can't really comment on. I agree that if these direct entry programs don't adequately prepare one to be a PA they shouldn't have them, but from all of my research on them they do. Most of the grads got job offers from their preceptors during clinical year, so they were obviously doing something right in the eyes of the physicians.
  11. I understand how putting it as "entry level" or "straight out of high school" sounds really bad, but by entry level it just means that you're accepted to both portions, not that the profession itself is entry level. And there are WAY more direct entry MD programs than PA programs. It's just a way of securing your seat if you've proven yourself already.
  12. There are TONS of entry level MD programs. (meaning guaranteed placement, which is what the 0-6 schools are) I'm actually kind of confused, as most MDs apply right out of college without any hce. I feel like these programs are actually helping to improve the profession. And please don't call them mills without reading up on (some) of them.
  13. Do you think if PA programs were extended to three years, even though there are some already (with the first being dedicated to "the basics") you would be okay with it being entry level? What I'm trying to get at is why there is so much resistance to this being entry level.
  14. This has gone from a "college students should go to med school" discussion to a "PA students should have large amounts of HCE" one. We are being encouraged to go to med school, where there are very little hce requirements, but at the same time told that we need hce to gain bedside manner. Most people go into med school with very little hce.
  15. I said "I haven't been through PA school so I can't argue whether or not they thoroughly teach the basics" I actually agreed that advanced HCE like yours would have a huge overlap, but I believe that if someone cannot go through a PA program that accepts those with no HCE and cannot come out a good PA, the curriculum should be changed. I am still very genuinely curious whether or not there are things left out of PA programs because they except student to have known these things from their HCE.
  16. Actually if you look at one of my earlier posts on this thread many of them are top, well respected programs. Among these are Quinnipiac, Duquesne, St. Francis, and Drexel. I'd encourage you to look at their websites and do some research on them.
  17. Sorry I didn't see your edit. Would you consider EMT-B or CNA good HCE? If so, I would argue that these skills are SO basic that if someone can't become proficient at these things in less than a week they shouldn't be a PA. If you're talking about paramedic/nurse HCE I might agree with you; I haven't been through PA school so I can't argue whether or not they thoroughly teach the basics, but as the PA school that I'm going to is a 0-5 one, I would hope that they alter the curriculum slightly to include these basics.
  18. I agree with you but the vast majority of things learned in PA school would be new to anyone. The overlap between the HCE that most people have and what is taught in PA school is so small that your argument that two years of PA school without any pre or post school training is not enough could be used for even those PAs with HCE.
  19. If you look at the quote that I was responding to, I was arguing that intelligence correlates with competence, and how this affects the reputation of the PA profession. HCE was never mentioned. With few exceptions, most things known through HCE (EMT, CNA, medical asst, paramedic) will be taught in the PA curriculum (and I would assume anything not taught in the PA program would be out of a PA's scope of practice regardless of prior knowledge anyway). These people definitely have an advantage during school, and may bring a lot to the table during schooling, but after all of the schooling they s
  20. I took what you said to mean that as an older grad, you had interview skills that some of your fellow PA students had not, and that this was one advantage to starting at a later age. By "new grad" I meant someone straight out of college in any profession, I should have clarified. I don't think having interview skills is a good enough reason to wait to go to PA school, and I don't think it has anything to do with being a good provider.
  21. A new grad in any profession will not have interviewed for a job before...does this correlate with how good they will be at their job?
  22. I would argue that raw intelligence often correlates with competence, & that MOST (there are always exceptions) highly intelligent individuals who go through a really good PA program will become competent and knowledgeable providers. It's important to note that the respect of the profession has a lot to do with the attitudes of those in it. Instead of the PA profession being sort of a "well I didn't know when I was younger that I should have gone to med school...I guess this will do," people are seeing this is the profession that the "smart kids" are going into.
  23. That's why SAT scores and AP scores are considered in admission, and why all of these programs have a minimum GPA that must be maintained throughout college.
  24. It's so interesting to see how the PAs on this forum want the PA profession to become more respected, and yet are discouraging smart highschoolers from becoming PAs! I'm not talking about the people who are telling us that there's a "glass ceiling," I think that that's a really good point and something that should be considered, but the people that say we're not mature enough or have enough life experience to make the decision. Of course there's uncertainty, no one can know their future for sure, but there are people my age deciding to join the military! Committing to any major is a risk! All
  25. which schools? did he apply to any 5 year programs?
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