PA becoming MD

[MediMike]

Interesting. Which program did you attend where you obtained the knowledge of an MD but came out with a PA? Think you got the short end of the stick if you went through all of that and didn't get an MD after your name.

You were a PA student when you went through school because you were in PA school, not medical school. You entered a training program designed for experienced healthcare professionals to come out of training and work in a team based approach to healthcare.

(Most) Medical students enter medical school with little to no healthcare experience and leave after performing their clerkships to pursue a residency oftentimes followed by a fellowship with the intent of leading the aforementioned healthcare team or simple independent practice.

You're an experienced poster here so I'm assuming you know these things already, they are being repeated so that others can understand why medical students and PA students are different creatures and why an MS3 can't sit for the PANCE for the same reason we don't sit for USMLE exams...we are different professions with different backgrounds.

[MedicinePower]

For privacy purposes I'll refrain from indicating which program I went to. I will say that less than 5% of my class had any prior health care experience and a majority were students from the undergraduate college who entered the PA school through a linked program.

It's time we stop pretending there are such major differences between PA and MD education and training and instead embrace the similarities.

[JOhnny888]

Yeah not gonna lie, people act like all PA students and no MD students have prior healthcare experience. Truth is that 90+% of people now in either program have the same amount of prior healthcare experience... PA students learn most of the information we do, just less detail and less repetition. 

I think the whole MD vs PA discussion is pointless, so the only thing I was trying to say is that IDC if people want the possibility to switch over as long as it goes both ways. MD students can take PANCE after 3rd year. If PAs want to take the Step exams and try to match then let them

[PAtoMD]

2 hours ago, JOhnny888 said:

Yeah not gonna lie, people act like all PA students and no MD students have prior healthcare experience. Truth is that 90+% of people now in either program have the same amount of prior healthcare experience... PA students learn most of the information we do, just less detail and less repetition. 

I think the whole MD vs PA discussion is pointless, so the only thing I was trying to say is that IDC if people want the possibility to switch over as long as it goes both ways. MD students can take PANCE after 3rd year. If PAs want to take the Step exams and try to match then let them

The major difference is you’re not necessarily comparing apples to apples. We are comparing PA-C or at least graduated PAs going to a bridge program where they go through medical classes again and then residency. It appears to me you’re describing an M3 who doesn’t wish to pursue taking steps all of a sudden being able to for the PANCE. That’s not the same thing. 

[JOhnny888]

9 hours ago, PAtoMD said:

The major difference is you’re not necessarily comparing apples to apples. We are comparing PA-C or at least graduated PAs going to a bridge program where they go through medical classes again and then residency. It appears to me you’re describing an M3 who doesn’t wish to pursue taking steps all of a sudden being able to for the PANCE. That’s not the same thing. 

Ahhh yes, back where we began... Let's just leave it as is and people can either do it all or do nothing. 

 

[PAtoMD]

55 minutes ago, JOhnny888 said:

Ahhh yes, back where we began... Let's just leave it as is and people can either do it all or do nothing. 

 

So you have issues with 3 year medical schools as well then I presume?

[Hope2PA]

Really, when you think about other professions, PTA can go further for DPT, SLPA on to SLP, RN on to APRN and so on. There should be an option of PA with, say 2-3 years experience, take The 2 yrs of medical classes, set for STEP, skip the rotations and apply for residency in area they have experience.  Also think MD/DO who doesn’t match should be given option to take PANCE.  If either can’t pass or match after specific time, to bad! Which side is afraid to work on regulations/rules and allow this to occur?  

[EMEDPA]

2 minutes ago, Hope2PA said:

Really, when you think about other professions, PTA can go further for DPT, SLPA on to SLP, RN on to APRN and so on. There should be an option of PA with, say 2-3 years experience, take The 2 yrs of medical classes, set for STEP, skip the rotations and apply for residency in area they have experience.  Also think MD/DO who doesn’t match should be given option to take PANCE.  If either can’t pass or match after specific time, to bad! Which side is afraid to work on regulations/rules and allow this to occur?  

Won't ever happen. Think about it. The best PAs would go on to become docs and the WORST docs(who could not pass their own boards) would become PAs, much like the assistant physician model some states are developing for docs who can't match. 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

It seems there is an argument of semantics here. Are PA students medical students? IMO, yes. They are studying medicine and this is the definition of a medical student. Are they doctoral candidates? No. But this is just opinion. Just like some snowflake physicians have the (wrong) opinion that I didn’t do a residency because it wasn’t a full 3 years. Still was though  I just don’t get a board certification out of it.

Should PA and MD combine and have those not completing a residency be able to take PANCE or some equivalent? I think yes. If they didn’t get into residency they still have to pass the PANCE. Though I think a better model (I think it would be better for medical school anyway) would be didactic 1year>clinical 2nd year>didactic 3rd year>clinical 4th year. You have to decide in year 2 what you are doing. Going to do another 2 years and residency or take off and be a PA. I think you would have plenty of smart people choose to be a PA to avoid 5-7 more years. The not so intelligent people who couldn’t match at least got 2 more years education before they take the PANCE and starting practicing. Smart folks who want to go back and take the last 2 years and try to match can.

this is all just mental masturbation as MD will never accept such a significant change. They have already decided they don’t want to be the same profession, which is why we’ve decided to take it upon ourselves to advance our profession. 

 

[Cideous]

18 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

Won't ever happen. Think about it. The best PAs would go on to become docs and the WORST docs(who could not pass their own boards) would become PAs, much like the assistant physician model some states are developing for docs who can't match. 

Exactly right.

[JOhnny888]

On 12/31/2019 at 6:16 PM, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

It seems there is an argument of semantics here. Are PA students medical students? IMO, yes. They are studying medicine and this is the definition of a medical student. Are they doctoral candidates? No. But this is just opinion. Just like some snowflake physicians have the (wrong) opinion that I didn’t do a residency because it wasn’t a full 3 years. Still was though  I just don’t get a board certification out of it.

Should PA and MD combine and have those not completing a residency be able to take PANCE or some equivalent? I think yes. If they didn’t get into residency they still have to pass the PANCE. Though I think a better model (I think it would be better for medical school anyway) would be didactic 1year>clinical 2nd year>didactic 3rd year>clinical 4th year. You have to decide in year 2 what you are doing. Going to do another 2 years and residency or take off and be a PA. I think you would have plenty of smart people choose to be a PA to avoid 5-7 more years. The not so intelligent people who couldn’t match at least got 2 more years education before they take the PANCE and starting practicing. Smart folks who want to go back and take the last 2 years and try to match can.

this is all just mental masturbation as MD will never accept such a significant change. They have already decided they don’t want to be the same profession, which is why we’ve decided to take it upon ourselves to advance our profession. 

 

Now thats a reasonable idea... The prior mentioned idea of MD students having to complete their degree and only then being able to take the PANCE vs PA students just being able to pursue step exams and residency right after graduation isn't plausible because of the difference in time spent studying/in a program. No one is going to go for a two way bridge unless it is somewhat equivalent in time and effort put in. 

[OmarAbdulMalik]

Hi. I have been a PA in Primary care for 20 years and have been working as a hospitalist in washington, DC for the past 5. I'm waiting for my kids to finish college (Lord willing). Then, I plan to go for the DO. I was considering MD at OUM b/c online for first 2.5 years; a bit warry about getting residency, though. HECK, I just want to continue doing what I'm doing but, as a Physician; MAAAYBE consider Family (but don't like Peds or Ob/Gyn :() ) I'm an Internal medicine guy. Are there any actual LECOM (PA-to_DO) students here? I took my MCATs back in 94'; got a 23

[dfw6er]

1 hour ago, OmarAbdulMalik said:

Hi. I have been a PA in Primary care for 20 years and have been working as a hospitalist in washington, DC for the past 5. I'm waiting for my kids to finish college (Lord willing). Then, I plan to go for the DO. I was considering MD at OUM b/c online for first 2.5 years; a bit warry about getting residency, though. HECK, I just want to continue doing what I'm doing but, as a Physician; MAAAYBE consider Family (but don't like Peds or Ob/Gyn :() ) I'm an Internal medicine guy. Are there any actual LECOM (PA-to_DO) students here? I took my MCATs back in 94'; got a 23

Yeah.  I took my MCAT same year.  On paper.  It's still on paper and was never ported to electronic form.   AAMC will take several weeks to track it down AND AACOMAS WILL REFUSE TO ACCEPT IT UNLESS IT'S IN ELECTRONIC FORMAT.   I had to speak w/ admissions at LECOM and explain the situation....LECOM was willing to accept the non electronic MCAT scores from AAMC.

-That being said, a 23 is a low MCAT score.  Not sure if that will help you.  LECOM doesn't require MCATs though....they can use an Academic Index Score.....just call their admissions folks.  IIRC now is the time to act if you want to apply to this upcoming admissions cycle.  APAP slots fill up fast.   Good luck.

[EMEDPA]

Agree- Don't bother with the mcat if looking at LECOM. That is one of the main reasons to apply there.

[PAtoMD]

3 hours ago, OmarAbdulMalik said:

Hi. I have been a PA in Primary care for 20 years and have been working as a hospitalist in washington, DC for the past 5. I'm waiting for my kids to finish college (Lord willing). Then, I plan to go for the DO. I was considering MD at OUM b/c online for first 2.5 years; a bit warry about getting residency, though. HECK, I just want to continue doing what I'm doing but, as a Physician; MAAAYBE consider Family (but don't like Peds or Ob/Gyn :() ) I'm an Internal medicine guy. Are there any actual LECOM (PA-to_DO) students here? I took my MCATs back in 94'; got a 23

DO not go to OUM. LECOM is a much better alternative. 

[EMEDPA]

1 hour ago, PAtoMD said:

DO not go to OUM. LECOM is a much better alternative. 

agree. LECOM will land you a US residency, OUM will not.

[dfw6er]

On 4/11/2020 at 7:43 PM, EMEDPA said:

agree. LECOM will land you a US residency, OUM will not.

^this, this, this, this, this!    IMGs are at a significant disadvantage compared to US med students when it comes time to match into residency.  Do yourself a favor and stay away from a foreign medical school.  SDN is full of sob stories from US IMGs who failed to match and now have a worthless MD degree and tons of debt.

Also, the PAs who made it through the bridge program at LECOM have historically outperformed the traditional students on board exams (by a significant margin) and have generally matched very well with most getting the specialty they wanted.