Should there be an Expulsion Process for the profession? Would this person qualify?

[CAdamsPAC]

WARNING! contains offensive  language and content!

The person is a Physician Assistant not a physician.

Edited August 10, 2019 by CAdamsPAC
clarity

[SoCalPA]

He should not be working the ER at Memorial Hermann or for Team Health. What's more his Texas License and National certification should be stripped. This is the most disgusting thing I have seen in a long time. He is totally unmoved by the accusations thrown at him.

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[jmj11]

Should not be in health care at all. What is this, the 1930s? What a disgrace to the profession. You cannot give good care to minorities if you are a racist pig.

[Ket131]

Wow, that was really bad and doesn't sound like locker room talk.  Definitely shouldn't be around patients.  Also, got a huge Sheldon Cooper vibe, except this guy is a racist.  Yes to both questions in the heading. 

[Cideous]

Good grief.  Terrible.  What was the deposition about?  Racism?  Honestly, I would like to know more of the back story.

[jmj11]

45 minutes ago, Ket131 said:

Wow, that was really bad and doesn't sound like locker room talk.  Definitely shouldn't be around patients.  Also, got a huge Sheldon Cooper vibe, except this guy is a racist.  Yes to both questions in the heading. 

Yeah, as a man I've grown weary of the mythological "locker room talk." It is a sorry excuse. I've been in many locker rooms and have never heard men talking this way. But an ER is not a locker room, and this "talk" should not be acceptable even in a locker room.

[CAdamsPAC]

14 minutes ago, Cideous said:

Good grief.  Terrible.  What was the deposition about?  Racism?  Honestly, I would like to know more of the back story.

I believe he was suing the person who revealed his texts to his employer for defamation. Pretty ballsy he is!

Edited August 10, 2019 by CAdamsPAC

[Cideous]

Just now, CAdamsPAC said:

I believe he was suing the person who revealed his texts to his employer for defamation. pretty ballsy he is!

Holy crap, what a dumbass.  Ok, thanks.  

 

As for locker room talk, yea it existed at least when I played football, but this is different.  This is straight up ugly racist stereotype language.  There's nothing funny, cute or endearing about what he is saying.  It's just plain hate.  I NEVER heard anything like this in any locker room I've been in, and I have been in a lot of them.   Most of what went on in ours was teasing each other about our girlfriends, stuff like that.

[Ket131]

12 minutes ago, jmj11 said:

Yeah, as a man I've grown weary of the mythological "locker room talk." It is a sorry excuse. I've been in many locker rooms and have never heard men talking this way. But an ER is not a locker room, and this "talk" should not be acceptable even in a locker room.

I've had friends (high school/college friends) dig at me for being chinese (mixed raced).  They are friends and I can allow the mud because I know they are messing around.  Got to do a tiger cruise on a submarine (brother is quartermaster on a sub), there is a lot of that there too.  

The guy in this video though, is playing a different game altogether.  Also can see him trying to hide smile at certain points in the video.  Such a d-bag, haha.

[SoCalPA]

Actually my understanding is that his defamation lawsuit against the "anonymous" patient, whose name was revealed by Memorial Hermann and Team Health, was thrown out. The deposition you see is from the patient suing the hospital, the PA and Team Health. I hope the patient sues the white coat off of him. Some deep pockets here!!

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[SoCalPA]

What I wanna know it's why didn't the hospital or the ER group fire his ass? Perhaps they did by now. Is his license in jeopardy? What about his certification?

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[Cideous]

Not that anyone cares, but his license is still active and in good standing with the TMB......

[jmj11]

4 hours ago, SoCalPA said:

What I wanna know it's why didn't the hospital or the ER group fire his ass? Perhaps they did by now. Is his license in jeopardy? What about his certification?

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If he is correct that the Docs did the same, all their asses should be fired. Some of you work for Team Health, I would assume (at least for liability issues, not to mention the ethical) they would have zero tolerance for this.

[Reality Check 2]

Dude should be fired, stripped of licensure and NEVER be allowed to be a PA or identify as such - ever again.

The media has shown folks being stripped of their jobs for flipping off the Presidential motorcade and saying/doing things on social media.

THIS is worse. This is a real entrenched embedded belief system - of hate. 

The patients he has seen - holy crap - wonder how many got subpar care or were endangered because of his asshat beliefs?

Good Riddance.

Has anyone petitioned the State Medical Board or sent them the known charges? I nice brown envelope with video and transcripts would be a nice touch.

 

[rev ronin]

So, I've not watched the whole video, but I'm hesitant to join the calls for his professional expulsion, because I think there should be an intentionally very narrow set of criteria for expulsion: First off, did he hurt one or more patients?

If not, then by all means take the publicly available depositions and get him fired and ridiculed, but save permanent expulsion from the practice of medicine for people who hurt patients, rather than who are absolute boors and hold unpopular opinions.

This is by no means an endosement or condonation (Is that a word? Is now) of any of the reprehensible things he's said, but a defense of free thought and the ability to hold and express unpopular opinions.  Do I want him treating my family?  Not in the least.  Do I think he could be OK providing medicine somewhere where there's no other alternative?  Eh... that remains to be seen.

I admit to being influenced in my thinking by stories of real people who've been the victims of Internet Outrage.  While this is certainly on a whole different scale that one of these brief stupidities, I consider empathy for the unlikable patient one of my key professional assets. Can I not extend the same to this numbskull?

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html

[thinkertdm]

I think that certification is a technical issue.  You exist, and have skills consistent with a set of listed standards.

licensure, on the other hand, is the ability given to the holder, by the state, to use that certification, in a ethical and respectful and responsible way.  Each region of licensure has its own professional standards; they are the ones responsible for monitoring, and censuring if needed.  

[jmj11]

1 hour ago, rev ronin said:

So, I've not watched the whole video, but I'm hesitant to join the calls for his professional expulsion, because I think there should be an intentionally very narrow set of criteria for expulsion: First off, did he hurt one or more patients?

If not, then by all means take the publicly available depositions and get him fired and ridiculed, but save permanent expulsion from the practice of medicine for people who hurt patients, rather than who are absolute boors and hold unpopular opinions.

This is by no means an endosement or condonation (Is that a word? Is now) of any of the reprehensible things he's said, but a defense of free thought and the ability to hold and express unpopular opinions.  Do I want him treating my family?  Not in the least.  Do I think he could be OK providing medicine somewhere where there's no other alternative?  Eh... that remains to be seen.

I admit to being influenced in my thinking by stories of real people who've been the victims of Internet Outrage.  While this is certainly on a whole different scale that one of these brief stupidities, I consider empathy for the unlikable patient one of my key professional assets. Can I not extend the same to this numbskull?

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html

I do believe that there is space for redemption. I've seen ex-KKK members, who now fight for the rights of minorities and against the KKK. However, I do think patients were hurt. You can't have his attitude toward minorities and still give them excellent care.  I worked with two different doctors in my career, that both hated patients. They hated all patients and would say so. They demeaned almost every patient that they saw (they weren't racist as far as I know). I also observed what horrible care they delivered. It wasn't because they didn't know better (at least one of those two was very smart) but was because they didn't give a damn. Both said they went into medicine for the money. So, my point is, your attitude does effect the care you give. Now, this guy in the video, maybe he could go through some type of deprogramming treatment and save his career, but I would take a lot of work. 

[Cideous]

I think this falls SQUARELY into the "proper ethical standards" clause of just about every state medical boards requirements.  I am all for giving a big "meh!" to internet outrage as Rev describes, but this is more than that.  This is pure racism.  Unadulterated, unedited and indefensible racism.  If this does not rise to the level of inappropriate ethical standards, then FFS I don't know what does.

[BruceBanner]

The guys sounds like a narcissistic a$$hat that should at the very least lose his job. But lose his license? Certification? Is there any evidence he caused someone harm or gave substandard care? Were these words said behind closed doors among staff or to patients directly?

I think we need to be very careful and highly specific when we talk about yanking someone's credentials or license to practice. In the age of outrage and big brothering everyone's opinions it could be a very slippery slope.

Loss of certification or licensure should be for demonstrated, dangerous incompetence that has failed attempts at remediation, or endangering patients through any medium. If it could be proven he delivered dangerous or substandard care, then yes let the boards have at him. But if he's just a delusional racist a$$hole who otherwise delivered competent care, then that's an employer or civil case issue. They can fire him, someone can sue him, etc.

[thinkertdm]

I suspect all licensing boards contain language such as "be of good moral character".  The Texas code specifically states, in section 204.304: conduct indicating lack of fitness:

(4) has committed an act of moral turpitude

Licensing is more than making sure you don't leave a clip in a patient or make sure you don't prescribe a medication that interacts with something else.  It has certain behavioral standards as well. 

[Reality Check 2]

I searched the NCCPA website to try to find an ethics clause  - it was confusing. The only area was specific to PA Emeritus status. I know the state sites have the clause as listed above  - but I think someone would have to complain or show he lied on the questionnaire. 

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I have never been on social media - just not my style - but I also didn't want employers to look me up and make judgments about anything of my personal life. We know they do it and we know patients look us up.

Thankfully, I am also not prone to inane acts, drunk selfies, political rants or taking videos of these asinine activities and stupidity.

The karma in this - if you google this guy's name - FIRST HIT - is this video. 

I don't know of anyone who would hire him if they even quietly google him or look him up on Facebook, etc. 

My opinion, his career is sunk. His quotes alone are damning and the idea this went to a lawsuit is more than enough...............

The internet is forever................. this time - THANKFULLY

[ohiovolffemtp]

"Moral turpitude" as thinkerdm mentioned usually refers to criminal convictions, at least in the states where I'm licensed.

On a practical basis, this person probably has already lost their job, because major staffing companies tend to be very protective of their image as are hospitals.

[EMEDPA]

I work for TH at one of my part time jobs. I would be fired in a heartbeat for this.

[thinkertdm]

Exactly right; there was no crime committed here.  
aside from the exact wording on the regulations, licensed people, as the state is essentially stating that the licensed individual is a good and upstanding person, has to be “of good moral character “.  
 

I’m not a lawyer. But it seems that “moral turpitude “ is an act that “gravely” violates commonly accepted standards of a community”

At the very least, it shows a complete lack of critical thinking skills.

And last- I am discussing this, because every action we do as physician assistants reflects on all of us.  I don’t want to share my profession with a guy who wears his title and Texts those sorts of things.  I agree with the internet outrage as noted above;  I don’t know the whole story of this video, but I saw him answering the questions.  When people google his name, they see two things: his name, and “physician assistant “.  That’s not a club I want to be in.