NP or PA

[areaz123]

I know there are so many threads out there that discuss this, but many are outdated and I want advice based on current practice. 

I am REALLY struggling trying to decide which route to go. I am currently a new nurse who works at a great hospital on a surgical/tele floor (only 3 months in) and I’m already deciding my plan since I never really wanted to do floor nursing for a long period of time. 

Benefits to PA- the medical model, the more extensive and thorough training to prepare you, the job variability and ability to specialize more easily (I think I want to do surgery).  Also it seems like way more docs hire PAs then NPs (I see more PAs doing physician type things more often on our floor- maybe cuz it’s a surgical floor.) 

The reason why I don’t want to be an NP is because I don’t have much nursing experience and I feel like NP school won’t prepare me enough, from what I’ve been researching. I also want to be able to have more options to specialize in different areas like you can with PA instead of picking a speciality from the beginning. The nursing model also makes me want to jump off a bridge sometimes with all of the extra “fluff” BS. 

However, I am reading that PAs don’t have respect from many people (idk if that’s true) and the future for NPs looks a lot better than for PAs. Is this true? Having more respect and a better job outlook would be the only reason I pick NP over PA because I truly feel PA will prepare me more and give me better options to specialize. 

Thanks in advance!

[Joelseff]

Bias warning....

 

Go PA!

 

Some ppl will say go the other way for better legal standing. I think PAs are making some headway on that with a better AAPA board and OTP. Title change is also coming around. It's a good time to be a PA I think. But again this is a PA board. I'm sure you'll find differing opinions on allnurses.com.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[Guest HanSolo]

Having more "respect" is all relative. Be a good person, treat patients and colleagues well, work hard, know your sh!t (and admit when you don't), and you'll get respect no matter what letters you have behind your name. 

 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

As a RN who went PA, go PA. I’ve never regretted my decision.

[ventana]

only reason to go NP is shorter easier program (actually a negative in my mind as more likely to be unprepared)

and

 

if you want to own your own practice.... easier as an NP (but this is going to change with OTP down the road)  

 

Go PA

[Guest ral]

9 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

As a RN who went PA, go PA. I’ve never regretted my decision.

Ditto.

[PA-C]

2 hours ago, Lightspeed said:

Time frame can actually be longer, unless you count the time, effort, and money involved in getting the undergrad degree for PA. There are a lot of variables. 

As an NP, I’m not agains the idea of thinning the Np herd by seeing folks off to become a PA when they haven’t done the research to decide what is best for them and their goals. But I think that if one has certain dreams that can’t wait for the precarious hope that OTP provides, then NP might be a better fit. I mentioned in another recent thread that I myself was not interested in waiting for that hope to materialize, and veered towards NP. If I hadn’t, I would still be waiting for OTP to save me, and that’s even with me taking my time along the road to becoming an NP.

It takes a lot of typing to get my point across to someone who is new to the discussion, but suffice it to say, if I were not a provider with full independence, I wouldn’t be in nearly as favorable circumstances between my primary job, and my secondary work. I could take my pick of therapist practices and medical directors covering nursing homes that want to hire me for significant pay to manage their clients meds. I can pick up work covering for, or partnering with, any of my NP friends that own their own practices. Some funny advice that I got from another NP is that “if you go work for a therapist office, you need to be their most expensive employee, even more expensive than the owner, because you are worth more than any of them.” And it’s true. It’s to the point where a relatively new Np can tell a clinic like that what the terms are going to be, and that they aren’t going to be making any money off the NPs med management, because it’s all going towards the NP. Without the NP, that means no in house med management, and that means referring out (and risking losing the client in the process). The only alternative to an NP is a psychiatrist, and they are in even shorter supply, and even less willing share the revenue they bring in. 

So that’s Psyche. I feel like the psyche world travels light and lives a charmed life compared to the folks that need some infrastructure like exam tables, lab draws/processing, and supply closets with all the minutiae that it takes to handle all the variables that arrive with the folks who come to clinic. I also have FNP friends who have their own practices, or are partners free and clear. I don’t know much about how they do, or whether it’s worth it. It just seems fairly complicated compared to me just driving up and waking in with a laptop to do my patient care. There’s a little more to it than that, but essentially, I’m the master of my destiny, and I don’t have to go get a physician on board to work, associate, collaborate, or get paid. It’s worth it. 

Are you inferring that the OP hasn’t researched the professions? Seems a bit passive aggressive for you to say. It sounds to me like the OP has done at least some research and is now seeking input from those in the workforce.

[PA-C]

21 hours ago, areaz123 said:

I know there are so many threads out there that discuss this, but many are outdated and I want advice based on current practice. 

I am REALLY struggling trying to decide which route to go. I am currently a new nurse who works at a great hospital on a surgical/tele floor (only 3 months in) and I’m already deciding my plan since I never really wanted to do floor nursing for a long period of time. 

Benefits to PA- the medical model, the more extensive and thorough training to prepare you, the job variability and ability to specialize more easily (I think I want to do surgery).  Also it seems like way more docs hire PAs then NPs (I see more PAs doing physician type things more often on our floor- maybe cuz it’s a surgical floor.) 

The reason why I don’t want to be an NP is because I don’t have much nursing experience and I feel like NP school won’t prepare me enough, from what I’ve been researching. I also want to be able to have more options to specialize in different areas like you can with PA instead of picking a speciality from the beginning. The nursing model also makes me want to jump off a bridge sometimes with all of the extra “fluff” BS. 

However, I am reading that PAs don’t have respect from many people (idk if that’s true) and the future for NPs looks a lot better than for PAs. Is this true? Having more respect and a better job outlook would be the only reason I pick NP over PA because I truly feel PA will prepare me more and give me better options to specialize. 

Thanks in advance!

I had the same debate myself. I was accepted to both a direct-entry NP program and a PA program in the same application cycle and ultimately decided to go to PA school. The NP program to which I was accepted would have allowed me to stay in the state I was living in at the time and would have allowed me to graduate in 18 months total, whereas choosing the PA program meant that I would have to move out of state and be in school for 28 months. Although it was more inconvenient to move out of state, be in school longer, and spend more $$ on tuition, I felt that the medical model provided by PA school would better prepare me for clinical practice and have no regrets at this point.  I function independently in my day-to-day care and consult my physician colleagues as needed. I am generally well respected by my patients and fellow providers and I am well-compensated for the work I do at this point in my career. I had no difficulty finding a job after graduation and the practice that I work at actually happens to have more PAs than NPs on staff. So, based on my personal experience, I don’t think PAs have a lesser job outlook than NPs. I am optimistic that OTP will continue to pass in other states. It will take time, but I think this next generation of PAs is committed to making that happen.

Good luck with your decision. Either way I think you will find yourself in a fulfilling career and in a good position to make a positive impact on the health of others!

[Reality Check 2]

Never been an RN so ARNP was never a consideration.

That said - PA - more specialties available with better broad based training on a medical model.

 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

5 hours ago, Lightspeed said:

Time frame can actually be longer, unless you count the time, effort, and money involved in getting the undergrad degree for PA. There are a lot of variables. 

As an NP, I’m not agains the idea of thinning the Np herd by seeing folks off to become a PA when they haven’t done the research to decide what is best for them and their goals. But I think that if one has certain dreams that can’t wait for the precarious hope that OTP provides, then NP might be a better fit. I mentioned in another recent thread that I myself was not interested in waiting for that hope to materialize, and veered towards NP. If I hadn’t, I would still be waiting for OTP to save me, and that’s even with me taking my time along the road to becoming an NP.

It takes a lot of typing to get my point across to someone who is new to the discussion, but suffice it to say, if I were not a provider with full independence, I wouldn’t be in nearly as favorable circumstances between my primary job, and my secondary work. I could take my pick of therapist practices and medical directors covering nursing homes that want to hire me for significant pay to manage their clients meds. I can pick up work covering for, or partnering with, any of my NP friends that own their own practices. Some funny advice that I got from another NP is that “if you go work for a therapist office, you need to be their most expensive employee, even more expensive than the owner, because you are worth more than any of them.” And it’s true. It’s to the point where a relatively new Np can tell a clinic like that what the terms are going to be, and that they aren’t going to be making any money off the NPs med management, because it’s all going towards the NP. Without the NP, that means no in house med management, and that means referring out (and risking losing the client in the process). The only alternative to an NP is a psychiatrist, and they are in even shorter supply, and even less willing share the revenue they bring in. 

So that’s Psyche. I feel like the psyche world travels light and lives a charmed life compared to the folks that need some infrastructure like exam tables, lab draws/processing, and supply closets with all the minutiae that it takes to handle all the variables that arrive with the folks who come to clinic. I also have FNP friends who have their own practices, or are partners free and clear. I don’t know much about how they do, or whether it’s worth it. It just seems fairly complicated compared to me just driving up and waking in with a laptop to do my patient care. There’s a little more to it than that, but essentially, I’m the master of my destiny, and I don’t have to go get a physician on board to work, associate, collaborate, or get paid. It’s worth it. 

Yeah, this paints a rosy picture that isn’t exactly reality. I don’t have to get a physician to do anything either in EM. I have a solo ED position and no one is calling shots but me. I’m sure you can better dictate your terms of employment, but that’s psych and not being an NP. I have PA friends that do the same in psych. Though if the OP is wanting psych, I certainly agree that NP would be the smarter choice because it requires very little experience and little knowledge of general medicine. And to say that the only replacement for a psychiatrist is a NP is also disingenuous. If you are implying that a PA can’t perform your job, you’re wrong. If you mean only you can go into the sticks and open shop to help the truly needy rural population, then yes, but not you or anyone else does this.

 

[areaz123]

5 hours ago, Lightspeed said:

Time frame can actually be longer, unless you count the time, effort, and money involved in getting the undergrad degree for PA. There are a lot of variables. 

As an NP, I’m not agains the idea of thinning the Np herd by seeing folks off to become a PA when they haven’t done the research to decide what is best for them and their goals. But I think that if one has certain dreams that can’t wait for the precarious hope that OTP provides, then NP might be a better fit. I mentioned in another recent thread that I myself was not interested in waiting for that hope to materialize, and veered towards NP. If I hadn’t, I would still be waiting for OTP to save me, and that’s even with me taking my time along the road to becoming an NP.

It takes a lot of typing to get my point across to someone who is new to the discussion, but suffice it to say, if I were not a provider with full independence, I wouldn’t be in nearly as favorable circumstances between my primary job, and my secondary work. I could take my pick of therapist practices and medical directors covering nursing homes that want to hire me for significant pay to manage their clients meds. I can pick up work covering for, or partnering with, any of my NP friends that own their own practices. Some funny advice that I got from another NP is that “if you go work for a therapist office, you need to be their most expensive employee, even more expensive than the owner, because you are worth more than any of them.” And it’s true. It’s to the point where a relatively new Np can tell a clinic like that what the terms are going to be, and that they aren’t going to be making any money off the NPs med management, because it’s all going towards the NP. Without the NP, that means no in house med management, and that means referring out (and risking losing the client in the process). The only alternative to an NP is a psychiatrist, and they are in even shorter supply, and even less willing share the revenue they bring in. 

So that’s Psyche. I feel like the psyche world travels light and lives a charmed life compared to the folks that need some infrastructure like exam tables, lab draws/processing, and supply closets with all the minutiae that it takes to handle all the variables that arrive with the folks who come to clinic. I also have FNP friends who have their own practices, or are partners free and clear. I don’t know much about how they do, or whether it’s worth it. It just seems fairly complicated compared to me just driving up and waking in with a laptop to do my patient care. There’s a little more to it than that, but essentially, I’m the master of my destiny, and I don’t have to go get a physician on board to work, associate, collaborate, or get paid. It’s worth it. 

Based on my post, its pretty clear I have done research regarding the two career paths. I am asking people in the field for advice. Also, it is a little insulting to say that people go the PA route because they haven't done the research to figure out what is best for them, unless you are just talking about psych, but I didn't mention psych at all in my post. TBH, I don't really understand what you are trying to tell me. However, any input is appreciated, so thanks.

[areaz123]

14 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

As a RN who went PA, go PA. I’ve never regretted my decision.

Good to hear!! Do you think if I transfer to the OR and be an OR nurse for about a year before I apply is a good idea? The schools around me require 1,000 hours of HCE to even apply but competitive applicants have about 2-3,000. Ill have 1,000 hours (6 months) of med/surg experience and about 2,000 hours of OR experience if I switch. I just dont want them to see OR nursing as not being great HCE since the patient is asleep. I will stay at the bedside if I HAVE to... however it is not something I prefer to do (I love the OR.) I should point out that the HCE portion of my application needs to stand out the most because my GPA is not crazy high. 

[sas5814]

OR time is HCE. My circumstances were a bit different because I was in the Army program but I was (technically) an OR tech prior to being accepted to PA school. I say technically because I was in the 82nd most of the time and spent the vast majority of my time as a medic and not in the OR but don't discount OR time as part of your HCE.

[DiggySRNA]

Same boat here...I'm really not looking forward to NP school unless I find a brick-and-mortar Program...not a fan of online learning. But if I give up on that dream, a hybrid online in-person EM NP program like Rutgers' will suffice. 

Honestly, I struggle with this every so often because I do see myself furthering my education but choosing a path is even more difficult since both PA and NP is available to me.

That said, I'm leaning more towards NP (UC Davis' dual PA/NP and Rutgers' EM-FNP). Reason is, I enjoy instant gratification and don't like to play the waiting game or what-ifs (ie: OTP). I like to move around so obtaining a compact license as a RN/APRN can make such moves a lot more easier among other things. 

It sounds like you're leaning towards PA and that is okay. The medical model and PA school curriculum is definitely superior to majority of NP schools and that is a fact. But if you're willing to do the extra work as a NP-S; full-time clinical year, suture workshops, I&D workshops, U/S workshops, imaging workshops, etc, then you'll be more than prepared to enter the workforce. Better yet, a residency program. 

Either choice will provide a great work-life balance and income.

 

PS: Each and every one of the PAs I work with in the ER are well-respected and function autonomously. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Diggy

[ventana]

4 minutes ago, Lightspeed said:

So let’s stick to the financials. The OP is already an RN, likely making between $60,000 and $80,000 per year. Let’s split the difference and say $70,000. If they go to Np school for $30,000 and work, then after 2 years of school, they have $110,000 after paying down their tuition. If they go to PA school for 2 years, they pay $100,000 for school, and miss out on $140,000 in wages. That’s $240,000 in outlay. So the financial choice is between either a +$110,000, or a -$240,000, which means the cost of that awesome PA education for this nurse is $350,000. That kind of situation is definitely worth knowing about. But I’m the angry one here? If I was angry, which I’m not, it would only be because your advice would cost this person several hundred thousand dollars for the self satisfaction that you enthusiastically endorse he or she pursue. What I did in my earlier post here is lay out a concrete example of how NP independence has made a difference to me, and isn’t just an abstract concept. If your physicians allow you the sense that you are autonomous, then that’s nice, but that is THEIR choice to make as supervisors of your practice relationship.

To many inaccuracies 

 

i fear that that alternative facts are being presented.  No way is there a 350,000 dollar diff in NP and PA

 

you do bring out on point that is valid.  You can work through NP school because it is not challenging like PA school.  Ask around, PA students eat sleep and breath school for 28+ months and barely barely know enough to practice on graduation. NP students don’t get this intensity.  Two local hospitals had to close preceptorship and open up these teachers to new grad NPs which admitted they were not prepared to practice out of school.  

 

There is just comparison of school intensity with PA>>NP in intensity and knowledge gained. (We had people fail out of my PA program, enroll in the local NP distant program and breeze through it)

 

now after 3 to 5 years out what matters is your work ethic and OJT and then they are very similar.   

 

As always this is only only my opinion and almost 20 yrs in medicine......

[PA-C]

5 minutes ago, Lightspeed said:

So let’s stick to the financials. The OP is already an RN, likely making between $60,000 and $80,000 per year. Let’s split the difference and say $70,000. If they go to Np school for $30,000 and work, then after 2 years of school, they have $110,000 after paying down their tuition. If they go to PA school for 2 years, they pay $100,000 for school, and miss out on $140,000 in wages. That’s $240,000 in outlay. So the financial choice is between either a +$110,000, or a -$240,000, which means the cost of that awesome PA education for this nurse is $350,000. That kind of situation is definitely worth knowing about. But I’m the aggressive one here? If I was aggressive about this, which I’m not, it would only be because your advice would cost this person several hundred thousand dollars for the self satisfaction that you enthusiastically endorse he or she pursue. What I did in my earlier post here is lay out a concrete example of how NP independence has made a difference to me, and isn’t just an abstract concept. If your physicians allow you the sense that you are autonomous, then that’s nice, but that is THEIR choice to make as supervisors of your practice relationship.

1.)  You never mentioned anything about “financials” in your initial comment, so I don’t think any of us knew we were supposed to “stick to them.” Sorry. The nature of this entire post was not about money. It was about the OP trying to figure out which professional track would best prepare him or her to practice in different ways.

2.) I didn’t give the OP advice. I shared my personal experience dealing with a similar situation and wished the OP well with his/her decision. I said whether he or she chooses PA or NP I think it will be a positive outcome.

3.) The correct legal term in my state and in many other states is collaboration, not supervision. Regardless, the notion of supervision really only exists on paper at this point. In many practice settings across many specialties PAs are independent thinkers who manage their own patients without direct supervision or input from physicians. PAs are trained to handle as much as we can on our own and ask for help when needed, AKA COLLABORATE. Collaboration really is the premise of practicing good medicine for all providers, physicians included. Medicine is a team sport.

 

What is the point of you being on this forum? All I’ve seen from your posts is you heavily pushing your NP agenda and criticizing anyone who says anything positive about being a PA.

[PAinPenna]

I have also wondered why you are so active on a PA forum when you are not a PA?? 

[areaz123]

37 minutes ago, Lightspeed said:

Here’s the thing... you said many of the posts are outdated. There are plenty of fresh posts you can choose from on the subject. Discussion isn’t a bad thing, but there’s a ton of resources on here to help direct you. And if that’s not enough, then that’s totally ok to open a new one (or even skip the research and just ask a question). It came across as if you hadn’t perused what is already here, and were new to the topic. 

I didn’t say that people choose PA because they don’t know what’s best for them due to lack of research. If you’ve researched your options, then good for you. Independence isn’t a small thing even for folks outside of psyche, hence the reason that it comes up constantly on here. That should be a hint. Money also isn’t a small issue, and the cost is real, as I’ve laid it out. If those things don’t interfere with your goals, then fantastic. But one of the better bits of advice sent my way by an NP long ago was that 10 years into a career as an NP or PA, will you be glad that you sacrificed any shot at independence? 

I understand that there are tons of resources, but I felt the need to open up my own post so I can reply with my own questions if needed. As far as independence, I am not too worried about it. I am also fortunate enough to not need to worry about money. I am leaning towards PA, but I do respect and understand your decision for wanting to be an NP. 

[areaz123]

1 hour ago, Diggy said:

Same boat here...I'm really not looking forward to NP school unless I find a brick-and-mortar Program...not a fan of online learning. But if I give up on that dream, a hybrid online in-person EM NP program like Rutgers' will suffice. 

Honestly, I struggle with this every so often because I do see myself furthering my education but choosing a path is even more difficult since both PA and NP is available to me.

That said, I'm leaning more towards NP (UC Davis' dual PA/NP and Rutgers' EM-FNP). Reason is, I enjoy instant gratification and don't like to play the waiting game or what-ifs (ie: OTP). I like to move around so obtaining a compact license as a RN/APRN can make such moves a lot more easier among other things. 

It sounds like you're leaning towards PA and that is okay. The medical model and PA school curriculum is definitely superior to majority of NP schools and that is a fact. But if you're willing to do the extra work as a NP-S; full-time clinical year, suture workshops, I&D workshops, U/S workshops, imaging workshops, etc, then you'll be more than prepared to enter the workforce. Better yet, a residency program. 

Either choice will provide a great work-life balance and income.

 

PS: Each and every one of the PAs I work with in the ER are well-respected and function autonomously. 

Do you know what kind of NP/PA you want to be?

What is the dual program? That sounds intriguing! Also, are there residency programs for NPs?

[DiggySRNA]

I definitely want the training to be a safe Emergency Advanced Practice Provider whether PA or NP school is going to provide it. Then I'll either do Emergency Medicine or Urgent Care. 

Yes there are Residency Programs for both PAs and NPs.

The dual program I am referring to is UC Davis dual PA/NP program. It's for current RNs who get accepted into their FNP program. Once in the FNP Program there's the option to enroll into the PA program simultaneously if there is a PA-S seat available. There are no guarantees. 

[DiggySRNA]

5 minutes ago, Lightspeed said:

I feel like that’s the most intriguing program out there, next to Yale’s online program. 

Both the only of its kind.

 

[PA-C]

50 minutes ago, Lightspeed said:

1) Ok, figure of speech. Maybe it would have helped you to read “OK, let’s revert to the topic of financials”. If that’s my fault for not typing that on my phone to your satisfaction, then so be it. 

2) Not sure what your point was here, but I agree for the most part. Both are respectable careers.

3) Whether it’s called collaboration, or supervision, you are required to have it to practice, and it has to involve a physician or you don’t get to work. It’s one sided, and even you guys don’t like it. All the other things you said about PAs being well trained, competent, and functional are completely in line with how I feel about them, and in most cases I feel even stronger about the strength of PA professionals. I’m not interested in disparaging anyone, so I don’t. But that doesn’t mean that the field needs the limitations placed upon it to be glossed over. It’s not a matter of NPs being better or worse in my mind, it’s the glaring inadequacies of the limitations placed upon you.

If you are asking me why I’m on here, I’d shoot that right back and ask you why are you on here? I’m not pushing the Np agenda, or criticizing anything good about PAs, I’m commenting on specific aspects pertinent to the discussion of the thread topic of PA vs NP. You apparently don’t want to read something that helps make the comparison because.... why? I guess maybe a better title would be “PA or NP, but only bad things about NPs and good things about PAs.” 

My point is that you said I gave the OP advice that would cost them a bunch of money when i didn’t advise the OP to do anything.

I never said I wanted to read anything bad about NPs. I was just wondering what you’re trying to accomplish on this website because until this last comment the overarching tone of your posts has been negative towards PAs. I am here to share in the wisdom and camaraderie offered by my fellow PAs and to try to stay up to date with current events affecting our profession.

 

 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

2 hours ago, Lightspeed said:

So let’s stick to the financials. The OP is already an RN, likely making between $60,000 and $80,000 per year. Let’s split the difference and say $70,000. If they go to Np school for $30,000 and work, then after 2 years of school, they have $110,000 after paying down their tuition. If they go to PA school for 2 years, they pay $100,000 for school, and miss out on $140,000 in wages. That’s $240,000 in outlay. So the financial choice is between either a +$110,000, or a -$240,000, which means the cost of that awesome PA education for this nurse is $350,000. That kind of situation is definitely worth knowing about. But I’m the aggressive one here? If I was aggressive about this, which I’m not, it would only be because your advice would cost this person several hundred thousand dollars for the self satisfaction that you enthusiastically endorse he or she pursue. What I did in my earlier post here is lay out a concrete example of how NP independence has made a difference to me, and isn’t just an abstract concept. If your physicians allow you the sense that you are autonomous, then that’s nice, but that is THEIR choice to make as supervisors of your practice relationship.

Your post was briefly about money. The rest was a diatribe about how independent you are, which speaks more to your specialty than being an NP.

Right off the bat, if you work for a group or hospital, those running the place determine your level of autonomy. The NPs in my state are independent, but have no more autonomy than I do at my hospital. In the military, my privileges exceeded the NPs in family medicine. So whether it’s admin or a physician, someone else is determine your autonomy. The only way around this is to open your own shop, which no one should do Day one after graduating because of inexperience and most people can’t afford until 10 years into practice.

The obvious path of least resistance and financial benefit is a RN becoming an NP, but there is more to life than money. There is certainly more to patient care than the path of least resistance. 

I welcome you, as an NP, commenting here. I encourage you to do so. But your going to get push back when your off base. I agree that it’s financially prudent to be a NP if you are an RN. I think your math is a little off, but not tremendously. I agree that you have a FEW options not open to PAs when it comes to opening your own practice, though I have faith this gap will be closed in the future, as it has been already in North Dakota. It should also be noted that NPs and PAs open there own practices at the same rate. Both about 5%. So the OP just has to decide what he wants. 

5 hours ago, areaz123 said:

Good to hear!! Do you think if I transfer to the OR and be an OR nurse for about a year before I apply is a good idea? The schools around me require 1,000 hours of HCE to even apply but competitive applicants have about 2-3,000. Ill have 1,000 hours (6 months) of med/surg experience and about 2,000 hours of OR experience if I switch. I just dont want them to see OR nursing as not being great HCE since the patient is asleep. I will stay at the bedside if I HAVE to... however it is not something I prefer to do (I love the OR.) I should point out that the HCE portion of my application needs to stand out the most because my GPA is not crazy high. 

Understand not wanting to be at the bedside. It can be grueling. Personally I would transfer to the ICU. The floor doesn’t give you time to really learn and OR experience will help with surgery, but this is a small portion of PA school. I don’t think it will be seen as lesser experience for an application, but being on the floor or ICU will help you learn concepts to make PA school less of a burden.

[PAinPenna]

7 hours ago, Lightspeed said:

I wonder why you care that I comment on NP topics.

Btw, I love it when it gets to the point where someone decides it’s best to verbalize the “I don’t agree with you, maybe you should go somewhere else” approach. This is a topic about PAs and NPs. The echo chamber must be so comfortable for you that you can’t help yourself. 

I actually agree with a lot of your posts. . Was just curious what brought you here. 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

7 hours ago, Lightspeed said:

 

If independence wasn’t important, we wouldn’t be insisting that OTP is necessary, and looking forward to it with bated breath. The point would be moot because it only applies to NPs that wanted to own a business, or folks in psyche, right? Yet it evoked at least one of you to go from saying you had “faith that [the] gap would be closed in the future” and then to insisting it’s a non factor overall, and everything is hunky-dory... all in one post.  

 

I don’t highlight the things I do in NP referenced posts so as to trigger... that comes from within because of the zero-sum-game-professional-frustration that betrays an inferiority complex in PAs that have a great deal of professional pride. It’s understandable. But what I say is part of a conversation where comparisons are being made. Here, it seems that PAs comparison arrive with a sharp edge. I never implied PAs were less than anyone else, ever (that’s you guy’s jam against NPs). Instead I described how important independence is, and cited my example. Just doing that brought about a frenzy, and several of you heavily criticized a simple and direct math equation (not refuted BtW). These are important topics to cover, not just “Rah Rah PA school!”. Someone even tried to tout “collaboration” vs “supervision” as a merit. Like I said, try practicing for even a day without a physician on file to “collaborate” with you and get back to me. Or try bucking their opinion on the “collaboration”. 

Getting rid of collaboration will help equal the playing field on a administrative level, not a practice level. The picture you painted depicted that our clinical scope was affected, but it’s not affected anymore than NPs, and that’s the point I’m making. 

I’m not triggered, I’m attempting to clarify inaccuracies I see for the OP and future readers. I’ve not attacked or denigrated NPs because there is no evidence that they provide lower quality of care. I do know that many feel unprepared, as I did in my 3 semesters of NP training, hence why I tell the OP I’ve never regretted my decision to go PA. 

As far as practicing without a physician, I have practiced independently in family medicine and on deployment without a physician for thousands of miles. I practice in solo ED positions where I run codes, placed invasive lines, started pressors, intubated, all without a physician. I’ve done far more high risk things independently than up someone’s Zoloft, start zyprexa, or do a Columbia suicide assessment (done those too), so I’m not sure what you expect that to change in my perspective.