Employers ARE starting to use the CAQ specialty exams...

[Poetsiren]

I would just like to draw everyone's attention to something I read on Facebook this morning! It upsets me for the same reason it should upset you!

 

I just read a post on a PA facebook page where someone asks about taking the EM CAQ......

When asked about why he was deciding to take it, he stated that his medical director offered him a hefty bonus if he could pass it....

 

It has begun.... I feel like this is the first step in it becoming mandatory for employment within a specialty.....

 

I will re-post my thoughts on this matter from another thread (and then list the thread link if anyone wants to read), but it should be as disturbing to you as it is to me:
 

".........the addition of specialized exams, regardless of the claim NCCPA has made that there will still be a generalist focus and a generalist provider exam, is cause for concern. If you were an employer who saw someone coming into a specialty from another area of medicine, would you want that person to have passed that specialist exam that you KNOW exists?! What if that PA wanted to work in several specialties? So you see, despite the NCCPA claiming it would "increase flexibility" of PAs, it would create a "trapping" effect and make the PA profession more like NPs in that it would require certification in each specialty, regardless of the generalist exam, and this is completely antagonistic to the PA profession and its original mission in the medical arena. Even though NCCPA says "No employer will know what exam the PA takes" when it comes to specialty exams..... it will become a jumping point for employers, and even other medical professionals who may think less of their PA peers, to question the PA qualifications. We will have lost the ability to be as flexible as we are. Don't get me wrong, I can understand taking an exam when the content isn't what you practice day to day (speaking of specialist medicine). That bites.....I don't have an alternative option, sorry. But PAs start out as certified generalists.

 

AND you have to pay for all the services that the NCCPA will be supplying to ALL PAs, and you KNOW how much PANCE costs.....So no, the NCCPA is being VERY vague on purpose. And so far the AAPA is having none of it. I mean, I agree with "db_pavnp" with what was said on the bottom of the first page of this thread: "It strikes me as a **beyond monumental task** to attempt to manage 12 specialty exams in one organization.  Some of these exams will be pure garbage."

I ask the same thing: how can NCCPA even regulate that number of exams on such a scale?! "

 

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/index.php?/topic/40317-shots-fired-aapa-to-formulate-new-certification-process/

 

 

 

[EMEDPA]

I got procedural sedation privileges in 2013 for having the em caq. the PAs who don't have it have to call in anesthesia...

[Poetsiren]

I got procedural sedation privileges in 2013 for having the em caq. the PAs who don't have it have to call in anesthesia...

 

Then you have already witnessed discrimination of PAs based on the CAQs..... interesting.

[EMEDPA]

Discrimination in my favor....keep in mind this is at a place where 50% of the PAs have 20 or more years of experience, doctorates, and have passed the em CAQ.

[CAAdmission]

Discrimination in my favor....keep in mind this is at a place where 50% of the PAs have 20 or more years of experience, doctorates, and have passed the em CAQ.

 

And you can objectively document that they provide superior care than the other PAs? What is the data?

[EMEDPA]

if an EM PA with 20 yrs experience isn't better than a new grad there is a problem....

data, we don't need no stinkin data...:)

[JohnnyM2]

And you can objectively document that they provide superior care than the other PAs? What is the data?

Not sure that is the point. The CAQ shows demonstrated competence in various procedures (skill set) and a demonstrated base of knowledge, along with a defined level of experience. Many employers use such measures e.g. CPA, CFA. It both protects the employer and provides an objective measure of competence. It doesn't prove that a PA with four years experience and a CAQ is a better provider than a PA with 20 years experience and no CAQ,. That would be silly, but employers need some kind of objective measure.

[Poetsiren]

..... It both protects the employer and provides an objective measure of competence. .... employers need some kind of objective measure.

 

But why do the new specialty exams NEED to be the measure of competence? We are NCCPA certified (whether that will hold weight in the future or not, idk). What about the future of flexibility for PAs?

[EMEDPA]

lateral mobility is going away. it did for the docs. it will for us.

[Maverick87]

 

I would just like to draw everyone's attention to something I read on Facebook this morning! It upsets me for the same reason it should upset you!

 

I just read a post on a PA facebook page where someone asks about taking the EM CAQ......

When asked about why he was deciding to take it, he stated that his medical director offered him a hefty bonus if he could pass it....

 

It has begun.... I feel like this is the first step in it becoming mandatory for employment within a specialty.....

 

I will re-post my thoughts on this matter from another thread (and then list the thread link if anyone wants to read), but it should be as disturbing to you as it is to me:

 

".........the addition of specialized exams, regardless of the claim NCCPA has made that there will still be a generalist focus and a generalist provider exam, is cause for concern. If you were an employer who saw someone coming into a specialty from another area of medicine, would you want that person to have passed that specialist exam that you KNOW exists?! What if that PA wanted to work in several specialties? So you see, despite the NCCPA claiming it would "increase flexibility" of PAs, it would create a "trapping" effect and make the PA profession more like NPs in that it would require certification in each specialty, regardless of the generalist exam, and this is completely antagonistic to the PA profession and its original mission in the medical arena. Even though NCCPA says "No employer will know what exam the PA takes" when it comes to specialty exams..... it will become a jumping point for employers, and even other medical professionals who may think less of their PA peers, to question the PA qualifications. We will have lost the ability to be as flexible as we are. Don't get me wrong, I can understand taking an exam when the content isn't what you practice day to day (speaking of specialist medicine). That bites.....I don't have an alternative option, sorry. But PAs start out as certified generalists.

 

AND you have to pay for all the services that the NCCPA will be supplying to ALL PAs, and you KNOW how much PANCE costs.....So no, the NCCPA is being VERY vague on purpose. And so far the AAPA is having none of it. I mean, I agree with "db_pavnp" with what was said on the bottom of the first page of this thread: "It strikes me as a **beyond monumental task** to attempt to manage 12 specialty exams in one organization.  Some of these exams will be pure garbage."

I ask the same thing: how can NCCPA even regulate that number of exams on such a scale?! "

 

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/index.php?/topic/40317-shots-fired-aapa-to-formulate-new-certification-process/

 

 

Relax.

 

Offering a bonus for a CAQ is not the same as lateral mobility going away. I agree that it will one day, but I can attest to the fact that it hasn't yet and it's not even close.

 

I recently obtained a new job in a state where I previously had no connections. I literally had interviews and offers in a wide range of specialties (internal medicine, family medicine, dermatology, GI, allergy and asthma, transplant medicine, pain management, and, yes, emergency medicine too). I think that it would have been easier to list the specialties that I did not have interviews with.

 

Again, this is without any connections in this large metro area at all. And I mean nobody. Prior to moving here, I knew exactly 2 people in the entire state (neither of whom were in a position to help me get a job). I did no networking and I did not have a LinkedIn profile.

 

So calm down. Lateral mobility may be gone in 10-20 years, but it's alive and well in 2016!

[CAAdmission]

. It doesn't prove that a PA with four years experience and a CAQ is a better provider than a PA with 20 years experience and no CAQ,. That would be silly, but employers need some kind of objective measure.

 

It won't be silly to those PAs with 20 years of experience who lose a job to some CAQ kid 18 months out of school. You can think it won't happen but it will be an accountant and not a clinician making the choice. The CAQ also does not necessarily indicate a PA has performed a procedure. It indicates that  know when and how a procedure should be performed. That's weak.

 

Eff the CAQ. I'm not giving NCCPA any more money, and I don't need 20 letters after my name (you know, like insecure or egomanical nurses like to put: Nurse Nancy Smith MSN, BSN, BS, CCRN, ACLS, AFL-CIO, XXX...)

[moestown1016]

I would just like to draw everyone's attention to something I read on Facebook this morning! It upsets me for the same reason it should upset you!

 

I just read a post on a PA facebook page where someone asks about taking the EM CAQ......

When asked about why he was deciding to take it, he stated that his medical director offered him a hefty bonus if he could pass it....

 

It has begun.... I feel like this is the first step in it becoming mandatory for employment within a specialty.....

 

I will re-post my thoughts on this matter from another thread (and then list the thread link if anyone wants to read), but it should be as disturbing to you as it is to me:

".........the addition of specialized exams, regardless of the claim NCCPA has made that there will still be a generalist focus and a generalist provider exam, is cause for concern. If you were an employer who saw someone coming into a specialty from another area of medicine, would you want that person to have passed that specialist exam that you KNOW exists?! What if that PA wanted to work in several specialties? So you see, despite the NCCPA claiming it would "increase flexibility" of PAs, it would create a "trapping" effect and make the PA profession more like NPs in that it would require certification in each specialty, regardless of the generalist exam, and this is completely antagonistic to the PA profession and its original mission in the medical arena. Even though NCCPA says "No employer will know what exam the PA takes" when it comes to specialty exams..... it will become a jumping point for employers, and even other medical professionals who may think less of their PA peers, to question the PA qualifications. We will have lost the ability to be as flexible as we are. Don't get me wrong, I can understand taking an exam when the content isn't what you practice day to day (speaking of specialist medicine). That bites.....I don't have an alternative option, sorry. But PAs start out as certified generalists.

AND you have to pay for all the services that the NCCPA will be supplying to ALL PAs, and you KNOW how much PANCE costs.....So no, the NCCPA is being VERY vague on purpose. And so far the AAPA is having none of it. I mean, I agree with "db_pavnp" with what was said on the bottom of the first page of this thread: "It strikes me as a **beyond monumental task** to attempt to manage 12 specialty exams in one organization. Some of these exams will be pure garbage."

I ask the same thing: how can NCCPA even regulate that number of exams on such a scale?! "

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/index.php?/topic/40317-shots-fired-aapa-to-formulate-new-certification-process/

I'm guessing we are part of the same Facebook group since I just put on there I was offered a bonus if I could pass it. The group is small and I'm not sure if the director just thought it would look good to the hospital that we are being progressive or if he just thought it would be cool. Nothing is better than experience and any physician worth working for knows that. Plus, $5k to do some extra studying? Also, he's not requiring it from anyone. It was just an offer. I like bonuses so I did some research. Do you think I'm adding to the collective "problem"? Pm me let me know if I'm making a mistake or am not seeing something in the right light

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Poetsiren]

This was written in 2012. I consider it an on-the-fence view of CAQs.
http://empacorner.blogspot.com/2012/01/specialty-caqs.html

[Poetsiren]

And from 2011 - an article in which the NCCPA specifically states that the CAQs are more for the benefit of the hiring entity to prove that these PAs who have the CAQs may have more privilege and upwards mobility....

 

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/physician-leaders/nccpa-launches-caq-program-pas-5-specialties

[Katera]

Reading this gives me sad face.  I've grown somewhat bewildered by this race to the top in our profession.  I just hope a few places out there will still hire a PA based upon experience and not some never ending list of didactic requirements....

[GreatChecko]

My group will give a bonus to a PA who completes the CAQ as well. I was going to get it anyways, so I'll happily take the money when the time comes.

[Evolute]

I will admit, I initially got my CAQ in EM b/c, well honestly I met all the requirements, and I thought it would look good on my resume.

As an aside, I do think lateral mobility is going away for PA's. It did for doc's.... it will for us.

 

Anyway, after nearly 20 years in medicine I had the pleasure of not only being served with one subpoena, but two subpoenas in the same day.

The first was for partner assault with a deadly weapon, the second was a murder trial. Having the CAQ served me well in both trials.

 

After that experience, I completely endorse any and all training, higher education, additional certifications available to PA's.    

[EMEDPA]

having the em caq also requires acls/atls/pals/difficult airway course. that alone would put an applicant higher on my hire list. all else being equal, I would take the guy with over the guy without.

[moestown1016]

having the em caq also requires acls/atls/pals/difficult airway course. that alone would put an applicant higher on my hire list. all else being equal, I would take the guy with over the guy without.

It only requires ACLS. The other courses are "encouraged"

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EMEDPA]

It says applicants "should" take acls, atls, pals, difficult airway.

Everyone I know who has taken it has taken all those courses.

[JohnnyM2]

I can understand the concern of some PA-Cs that the CAQ could become a new standard that you must have to qualify for a job. Advanced qualifications exist in many professions, however, but don't exclude others from all the good jobs. An advantage of the CAQ is that it is specific to PAs and can actually give PAs some job preference (over NPs for example.) Hopefully, a CAQ would never be used to get rid of an older employee with experience, but I don't know. CAQs also don't seem to be especially difficult or expensive to get. In my understanding, the option to earn a CAQ is an advantage to PAs.

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[slolar]

I work at a level I trauma and we have a small cadre of PAs (6-8 at a given time).  We mostly staff the lower acuity urgent care in the department, but a few of us rove in the main ED during the week.  Our group is moving towards requesting the EM CAQ for risk management purposes.  Much like requiring all MDs are board certified.  The group would like to be able to say that PAs are also certified "specialists" in EM.  We have never had a suit (knock knock) against a PA in the 12 years I have been here, but it's bound to happen.  Anyone have any experience with a CAQ during a lawsuit?  Seems like it could help with credibility.

 

I am taking it for the first time this week.

 

Sara

[Reality Check 2]

Since there isn't a CAQ for Family Medicine at this point - no worries.

 

NOTHING will improve my reimbursement in Family Medicine - not a Master's, not a PhD, not any other doctorate and certainly not a CAQ.

 

NOTHING will increase my income in Family Medicine with a CAQ either. 

 

Sad

[ventana]

this is great news!

 

When is NCCPA going to realize we need a PRIMARY CARE IM CAQ???

[Reality Check 2]

this is great news!

 

When is NCCPA going to realize we need a PRIMARY CARE IM CAQ???

 

Why doesn't NCCPA work with MD/DO boards to coordinate our professions?

I continue to argue that we, in Primary Care, should be aligned with the AAFP and have similar board cert.

If we are trained on a medical model and practice medicine - then we should be judged along the same lines.

I think it would be much more clinically appropriate and socially impressive (if I cared) that a FP PA have an AAFP cert with their NCCPA or some combo thereof.

Then maybe I could bill at 100% in FP based on my certification and qualifications.......

Is it just me or does this sound ridiculously logical?...................