A MD supports the PA name change

[PACali]

Good to see a MD supporting the name change.

 

What's in a name" - Wanda C. Gonsalves, MD

http://www.jaapa.com/whats-in-a-name/article/209432/

[StudentPA]

That is wonderful. It means that other medical professionals, besides Physician Assistants, are at least considering the possibility of the name change.

[chatcat]

Thanks for sharing.

Great perspective and kudoos to Dr.Gonsalves for giving credit to other opinions on this issue. I found both articles with valid points on this issue.

[andersenpa]

Thanks for sharing.

Great perspective and kudoos to Dr.Gonsalves for giving credit to other opinions on this issue. I found both articles with valid points on this issue.

 

What points in Anderson's article were valid?

[chatcat]

What points in Anderson's article were valid?

 

I graduated with " Physician Associate" on my degree from PA school(Emory)~yet, the use of the world "associate" didn't curtail the questions about the PA role and all the other questions about the profession that folks think will magically disappear if a name change occurs....it won't. Like many others,I've spent decades explaining my role as a PA-C.

 

 

I'm all for making a name change for us as a national profession that denotes more respect for the role we play in medicine. Fact is..collectively I have seen very few issues gather this much momentum in our profession and only wish we could tackle some current healthcare issue with such enthusiasm.

 

I agree with Anderson's view on the following :

 

What really boggles my mind about the PA name-change movement is its persistent elevation of this issue while we are in the midst of a health care crisis. Medicare and Medicaid battle for survival; the gap between insured and uninsured continues to grow; health inequities lay waste to millions of our patients decimated by social determinants, poverty, racism, and prejudice.

[EMEDPA]

those are national issues that the aapa has no control over. the aapa won't be resolving the health care crisis, medicare/medicaid issues, poverty, racism, and injustice.

we have control over what we call ourselves. that's something we can impact. when pa's are tuened away from senator's offices because "they are only assistants and we need to talk to someone with more authority" as happend frequently there is a problem.

np's don't get turned away but "assistants" do. I don't assist anyone at work except pts. I NEVER see or work with my sp. he works days and I work solo nights.

[Hemegroup]

Yup, those are issues where our role is/will be vital ... and hence not such a good thing if PAs are overshadowed by NPs (where we all know that the name plays an inherent part in that problem).

[Joelseff]

those are national issues that the aapa has no control over. the aapa won't be resolving the health care crisis, medicare/medicaid issues, poverty, racism, and injustice.

we have control over what we call ourselves. that's something we can impact. when pa's are tuened away from senator's offices because "they are only assistants and we need to talk to someone with more authority" as happend frequently there is a problem.

np's don't get turned away but "assistants" do. I don't assist anyone at work except pts. I NEVER see or work with my sp. he works days and I work solo nights.

 

Thank you! I'M GLAD someone said it...So what we should drop the attempt to address the confusion of our title until racism and poverty are abolished? C'mon, really??? So NO OTHER ISSUE is worth pursuing as a profession???

 

 

Another Good Point by Hemegroup also! The more I hear the points of opposition to the name change the more I see why the profession is in such a calcified state. Whenever a positive move is put forward to change a problematic title, Some PA's come up with reasons why it WON'T work...Well I for one, and yes I am a Newbie PA but so what, am glad that the PA's who want the change have finally done something. I hope it doesn't fizzle out.

[Doc Savage]

"Translated to a different context, how concerned would airline passengers be to hear that their plane was in the hands of a pilot assistant? Yet we are glad to know that there is a co-pilot in the front of the plane. Yes, they are just words, but sometimes words do matter."

 

I loved this line here...

[ICRob0351]

"Translated to a different context, how concerned would airline passengers be to hear that their plane was in the hands of a pilot assistant? Yet we are glad to know that there is a co-pilot in the front of the plane. Yes, they are just words, but sometimes words do matter."

 

I loved this line here...

...

 

I guess the only consideration here, more to appease physicians than anything else, is to make sure people understand that while PAs work closely with doctors, the whole Pilot: Co-pilot: Doctor: PA does not really work. PAs are NOT Co-physicians, and while PAs are very highly trained and skilled healthcare providers they are not medical doctors, and trying to present the case as the "Co-Pilot" will draw staunch and fierce opposition from physicians that will only hurt the name change cause. One of the most salient points that need to be made within the name change issue is that Physician Associate is not an attempt to take away any power from the M.D. but to clarify and more accurately describe the role a PA plays. Just a thought.

[Contrarian]

The Anderson point is a "red herring" logical fallacy...

May as well have said... "PAs shouldn't be worrying about their name until Cancer is cured and Global warming has been halted"... :heheh:

 

 

I'm quite surprised you fell for that...

 

Whenever a positive move is put forward to change a problematic title, Some PA's come up with reasons why it WON'T work...

 

Remember those "Drivers"... "House"... and "Field" slaves.

 

"Field Slaves"- Vast majority of practicing PAs out here who don't want to "rock the boat" and just glad to have a job. These are the PAs who try to talk the "runaways" out of standing up for themselves... and/or seem to think of every reason why the "runaways" will/should fail and cease to entertain the idea of freedom or the ideal of reasonable respect... but can't seem to think of any reasons why the "runaways" should succeed and would do nothing to assist the "runaway" elope.

[andersenpa]

I graduated with " Physician Associate" on my degree from PA school(Emory)~yet, the use of the world "associate" didn't curtail the questions about the PA role and all the other questions about the profession that folks think will magically disappear if a name change occurs....it won't. Like many others,I've spent decades explaining my role as a PA-C.

 

I don't know anyone who thinks that things will "magically change" with the name change. It is one component of an attempt to take control of our profession and define ourselves based on what we see as our role, what we do, who we are. Every other profession in the world has its own mission statement and professional agenda. It seems that we are criticized- from within!- for doing the same.

 

Even after the name change we will still have explaining to do. That's just the nature of the beast. But it WILL, eventually, open doors for PAs in leadership and legislation, which WILL have downstream effects on how we practice, how we bill, which patients we can see, and how we see them. I wouldn't underestimate the value of the name change when looking at those eventual results.

 

 

I'm all for making a name change for us as a national profession that denotes more respect for the role we play in medicine. Fact is..collectively I have seen very few issues gather this much momentum in our profession and only wish we could tackle some current healthcare issue with such enthusiasm.

 

I agree with Anderson's view on the following :

"What really boggles my mind about the PA name-change movement is its persistent elevation of this issue while we are in the midst of a health care crisis. Medicare and Medicaid battle for survival; the gap between insured and uninsured continues to grow; health inequities lay waste to millions of our patients decimated by social determinants, poverty, racism, and prejudice. "

 

it is these very reasons that the name change is useful. A professional title and the doors it opens (see above) will enable PAs to hold a greater position at the table when decision making on these health care issues are being made. You can alwyas find other things to spend money or time on, but how is that any logical argument against our professional agenda (that thousands upon thousands of PAs want)?

 

Look at NPs...they have branded themselves well and are reaping the rewards.

 

We need to realize this name change is an investement in our own future, which will pay dividends if we push for it.

[Kaepora]

Preface: I support the name change. Even if it's only because "associate" SOUNDS better than "assistant".

 

However, I don't think that swapping one for the other is going to bring about some huge paradigm shift in the practice policies of PAs. And I don't think that the title of "nurse practitioner" is what is really propelling the NPs forward. In my opinion, it isn't the "practitioner" part of the name at all. It's the "nurse" part. Every politician and every patient knows what a nurse is. They know that an NP is an RN with more medical training. The problem that PAs encounter, I think, is that no one knows from where they start. It could be a nurse, medic, cna, emt, pct, etc (and unfortunately I have more than a few friends who went to PA school without ANY prior HCE. But I live in Pennsylvania and it is like a PA factory here). That mixes things up a bit. Now, I would think out of all the training I just listed, the majority of people would say that an RN is trained to the highest degree. Further, I would say that most people have no idea about the difference in training between an NP and PA. So let's just assume they regard the two as equal. Wouldn't it stand to reason that people would then see RN-->NP as better than ??-->PA. Unless of course it is RN-->PA, not that it matters. So even NPs who do a directy entry program have had the RN training and RN clinicals which has to be better than nothing, right?

 

OK, so I hope that was somewhat easy to follow? I guess for me it boils down to the common perceptions of the general public. No one cares if you are a practitioner or an associate. What they do know is that an NP is definitely at least a nurse plus extra schooling. A PA is A LOT more confusing.

 

So, in conclusion, I hold with those who support a campaign to educate people on what a PA is and how they are trained. Simply changing the name does not clear up any confusion at all (although it can't hurt!). And unfortunately the PAs are already behind... So I think from here on out it will always be a game of catch up.

[andersenpa]

Preface: I support the name change. Even if it's only because "associate" SOUNDS better than "assistant".

 

However, I don't think that swapping one for the other is going to bring about some huge paradigm shift in the practice policies of PAs. And I don't think that the title of "nurse practitioner" is what is really propelling the NPs forward.

 

It is part of it. You're ivnited to the table based on several factors, and credential is the first thing visible. Nurses have a WAY stronger lobby ($$$) which is a huge factor but I can't disregard to brand that they have created. Lobby/title/degree/data.....

In my opinion, it isn't the "practitioner" part of the name at all. It's the "nurse" part. Every politician and every patient knows what a nurse is.

 

Interestingly if you ask some NPs they feel as strongly about the "nurse" part hurting them as we feel about "assistant" hurting us.

They know that an NP is an RN with more medical training.

 

NO!!!! They don't practice MEDICINE they practice ADVANCED NURSING....This is THEIR definition, not ours.....

 

The problem that PAs encounter, I think, is that no one knows from where they start. It could be a nurse, medic, cna, emt, pct, etc (and unfortunately I have more than a few friends who went to PA school without ANY prior HCE. But I live in Pennsylvania and it is like a PA factory here).

 

I woud go further to say that the average joe doesn't even know that PAs have prior experience/training. They read in USN&WR or the like and see that "Physician's Assistants only require 2 years of training, perform the more basic services that a doctor may perform, sometimes have a bachelor's degree, and in some states can even prescribe medications".....

That mixes things up a bit. Now, I would think out of all the training I just listed, the majority of people would say that an RN is trained to the highest degree. Further, I would say that most people have no idea about the difference in training between an NP and PA. So let's just assume they regard the two as equal. Wouldn't it stand to reason that people would then see RN-->NP as better than ??-->PA. Unless of course it is RN-->PA, not that it matters.

 

The average person/patient does not know enough to make that differentiation.

So even NPs who do a directy entry program have had the RN training and RN clinicals which has to be better than nothing, right?

 

At that point it depends on the quality of the training. I have come to beleive that it does not take the traditional 4+4+3 to make a PCP. The (masters) PA model of 4+2 can work well, and with a more structured program (mandatory 12-18 mo residency, 3 yr PA program ????), we can train lots of PCPs who are competent.

Having said that, the typical DE NP program with minimal RN experience (usually done while in NP program) and ~500 clinical hrs...well, maybe that might NOT be better than nothing. I don't really know, but it seems lackluster.

OK, so I hope that was somewhat easy to follow? I guess for me it boils down to the common perceptions of the general public.

 

More like common misperceptions being the norm. They just don't know.

 

No one cares if you are a practitioner or an associate. What they do know is that an NP is definitely at least a nurse plus extra schooling. A PA is A LOT more confusing.

 

But they DO care if you are a practitioner or an assistant. And they do care if you have a MS/doctorate vs a cert/BS.

 

So, in conclusion, I hold with those who support a campaign to educate people on what a PA is and how they are trained. Simply changing the name does not clear up any confusion at all (although it can't hurt!). And unfortunately the PAs are already behind... So I think from here on out it will always be a game of catch up.

 

That's for damn sure. There is no "simply" changing the name. It is a rebranding, which includes the name change. A PR campaign is great but it has to be BIG and it has to have ba11s. The power behind a PR campaign right now is the AAPA and they aren't going to do anything ba11sy enough that would change perception. Unfortunately, we are so far behind that we have to push the enevelope in terms of hyping our own cred, and that sort of maneuver is heresy to the PHYSICIAN-PA team concept that the AAPA and states have been supporting for 40+ yrs.

[Kaepora]

Alright, alright. So maybe I was assuming people know at least a LITTLE about the two paths. And, yes, it's called advanced practice nursing, but we all knows that's for the sake of politics. They're practicing medicine plain and simple. I guess I am looking at this (and I think many others are as well) as you can only have one or the other. You can have the name change or you can have a huge PR campaign. I think everyone would prefer both if the option is there. But, IF you had to choose one or the other, I think the PR campaign would be more beneficial than the name change. The NPs have way more going for them than just the "practitioner" part of their name (i.e. $$, HUGE lobby, millions of foot soldiers, not being weighed down by the AMA...) and PAs have way more going against them than just the "assistant" part of their title (i.e. less $$, crappy/lazy/sucky lobby, a much smaller base, and the fear of physicians/AMA getting testy). So, if I had to be choosy, the name change is noooooot very important in my book. I think trying to distance yourselves from the AMA and starting to worry about what best for you would be a good start, so maybe the name change is useful? AGH, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[Kaepora]

I would love to see PAs rename themselves and launch a massive PR campaign and gain indepence more on par with NPs! But, you need some new leadership first...

 

I'm starting an ABSN program in 2 weeks and I can tell you that there are nurses out there who have not been brain washed into thinking nurses are demi gods with the sole ability to heal mankind. Haha. I'll go on to NP/CRNA (probably CRNA) but I definitely won't discourage anyone from becoming a PA.

[andersenpa]

I guess I am looking at this (and I think many others are as well) as you can only have one or the other. You can have the name change or you can have a huge PR campaign.

 

Unfortunately our AAPA says "You can't have the name change or you can have neither."

[Contrarian]

... [brevity edit]... So, if I had to be choosy, the name change is noooooot very important in my book. I think trying to distance yourselves from the AMAand starting to worry about what best for you would be a good start, so maybe the name change is useful? AGH, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

Curious...

 

How do we 'distance ourselves from the AMA' if we are still being called "Physician Assistants"...???

How do we distance ourselves from those we "assist"...???

 

Nahhh... I think the name change is verrrrrrry important if we are to "chart our own path."

[Kaepora]

Then this should be the order of events:

 

1. Change the name from Physician Assistants to Physician Associates.

2. Prepare a massive PR campaign so that the second this name change does occur it can go off nationally. I'm talking pamphlets in hospitals and physician's offices, commercials, etc. Everything the advanced practice nurses have done but even more aggressive.

 

The AMA will just have to get over it. The physicians that are supportive will help, those who are indifferent will do nothing, and those that are against it will try and resist but to what end? It will either happen or it won't. But history tells us that it will happen if you push hard enough.

 

But seriously, get your a**es in gear!!

[EMEDPA]

Then this should be the order of events:

 

1. Change the name from Physician Assistants to Physician Associates.

2. Prepare a massive PR campaign so that the second this name change does occur it can go off nationally. I'm talking pamphlets in hospitals and physician's offices, commercials, etc. Everything the advanced practice nurses have done but even more aggressive.

 

The AMA will just have to get over it. The physicians that are supportive will help, those who are indifferent will do nothing, and those that are against it will try and resist but to what end? It will either happen or it won't. But history tells us that it will happen if you push hard enough.

 

But seriously, get your a**es in gear!!

 

now THAT is what I am talkin about....

[chatcat]

EMEDPA;307561 I don't assist anyone at work except pts. I NEVER see or work with my sp. he works days and I work solo nights.

 

I'm all for the name change that denotes a more accurate and professional status to our

role in the healthcare system. I'm also a solo provider in a role that has nothing to do with assisting and is

without the physical presence of an MD.

 

I hold with those who support a campaign to educate people on what a PA is and how they are trained. Simply changing the name does not clear up any confusion at all (although it can't hurt!).

 

Exactly! Physician Associate isn't going to change the fact that we are a profession that has much less recognition

than NURSE Practitioners. Public education,promotion and exposure of our qualifications and contributions to

medicine will continue to be key to our recognition regardless of what we chose as our professional label.

[Contrarian]

Exactly! Physician Associate isn't going to change the fact that we are a profession that has much less recognition

than NURSE Practitioners. Public education,promotion and exposure of our qualifications and contributions to

medicine will continue to be key to our recognition regardless of what we chose as our professional label.

 

 

 

 

True... "Public education, promotion and exposure of our qualifications and contributions to

medicine will continue to be key to our recognition"... and I'm sure that using a title that doesn't cause our patient's significant "cognitive dissonance" will be helpful also.

 

How do I KNOW it causes cognitive dissonance...????

We all have a few patients that we have provided such extensive, or just gold standard care to or simply touched them and their lives in such a way at such a time that no matter how many times you correct them and educate them on the fact that you are a PA and on what a PA does and how a PA is trained and the difference between a PA and a Physician... they insist on calling you DOCTOR... and continue to do so to this day no matter how many times you correct them.

 

Human nature and the very fact that words have meaning... dictates that we could push "Public education, promotion and exposure of our qualifications and contributions to

medicine" for... say... 40 yrs, but after our lips stop moving and we get done with the "I'm a PA" spiel... the patient will look down at our labcoat, or door plaque, or signature... and still see "ASSISTANT" and wonder if they drew the short straw.

 

Words have meanings...

CNAs have been telling folks for yrs how they save lives, start IVs/G-Tubes, pass meds and change dressings.

Then when anyone with a grasp of the kings english reads CNA on their tag... they know that 99% of what's been said is BS.

The same assumptions are applied when we state our capabilities then the listener hears "assistant."

 

YMMV

 

Contrarian

[bradtPA]

We brought the topic up at the annual meeting for our state association. The basic message was we can get the name change done, but they expected the costs to get in done in dollars to be high. Each one of us should be prepared to pony up the bucks if we want to get this done!

[EMEDPA]

We brought the topic up at the annual meeting for our state association. The basic message was we can get the name change done, but they expected the costs to get in done in dollars to be high. Each one of us should be prepared to pony up the bucks if we want to get this done!

fine by me....

[Kaepora]

Too bad this will prevent most PAs from contributing....