Didactic year- How much did you actually learn in lecture?

[JBH11]

Hi guys,

 

I'm about a month into my program and so far we're just covering the basic sciences before starting clinical medicine in the Fall. A couple of second year students were describing their didactic year and were saying they learned the majority of the material independently and that lecture was more a time to figure out what you had to learn on your own. Have other students had similar experiences? I was a little surprised to hear this

[AliB]

I'm at about the same point in my program as you, but I'm very surprised that you're surprised.  

 

Every program I visited, every program where I interviewed, the current students were part of the process.  They were always very forthcoming with the intensity and volume of material covered, how fast it's covered, and how much time outside of formal classroom time that just about every PA student will spend learning.  "Drinking from a fire hose" was a pretty common phrase.  

 

You don't say if you are in a masters program; I am.  My previous masters degree work was far less total hours, and in a totally different field, but still involved a lot of independent learning.  It is a graduate degree after all; it's not advanced high school or advanced undergraduate.  :)  Whether you're in a masters level program or not, the coursework is going to be similar (as we all take the same certifying exam when we're done).  

 

You don't say if you are in a 2 year program or a 3 year program, or something in between.  I can't say from any first hand knowledge, but even the 3 year programs are pretty intense from what I've heard.  Although we all take the same certifying exam after graduation, many of the three year programs (as well as the ones between 24 and 36 months long) aren't just the same material in a longer timeframe; they've often added material, or more clinical work, that they believe will make you a better clinician when you do graduate. 

[JBH11]

I'm in a 2 year masters program. I certainly anticipated a lot of independent learning, but what surprised me was hearing the second year students saying that lecture was "basically a joke". During the interviews/information sessions they mentioned the amount of time spent using other resources but I was/still am looking forward to specialists coming in for various parts of clin med

[UGoLong]

You will probably learn lots of unconnected pieces of information during your didactic year with, if you're lucky, some good case study work to help pull it together. Still, it probably won't get pulled together all that much until your clinical year. The lectures will also highlight things that you don't understand well enough and need to figure out on your own. For me, there was a lot of that. Some weeks I couldn't even remember what the prior week's tests were all about.

 

If you do this well, you will surprise yourself during your clinical year as to how much you can actually recall when you have to.

 

You are traveling a path that over 100,000 people have already taken. Have faith that it leads to a good place. Let the things you are being taught that you don't understand well be motivation to you to work on your own to make it clearer.

 

If you're on the right path for you, spending your own time learning will seem like the right thing to do. Not as much fun as being out on a nice summer day maybe, but the right thing to be doing.

 

Good luck!

[JBH11]

Thanks for sharing your experience! It's definitely nice to hear success stories from those who have been through it.

[cinntsp]

I learned most everything while in lecture and spent very little time studying outside of class.  It just depends on your learning style.  

[EMEDPA]

I learned most everything while in lecture and spent very little time studying outside of class.  It just depends on your learning style.  

my experience was similar, especially in clinical medicine and non-basic science courses.

[Z PA-C]

For me it really depended on the topic/guest lecturer. Some guest lecturers were more effective instructors and some subjects I just had a stronger background in. For the topics I didn't know as well or if the guest speaker's style wasn't working for me, obviously, I studied more independently but mostly just to clarify areas that I was having a harder time with.

I rarely found that I needed to go beyond the material that was provided in lecture. Most of the time it was the other way around and the speakers gave us way more information than may be necessary and it boiled down to figuring out what was most important with the time constraints given or as my classmates like to put the "high yield" stuff.

[cg02186]

I am learning a ton in my didactic year. Especially the second semester when you take classes such as Clinical Medicine, Diagnostic Interpretation, Pharmacotherapy, etc. first semester did have some review like patho and genetics and stuff. I have to put a lot of time outside of class but it's not learning extra is just cementing and getting a better grasp on everything from lecture. Our lectures are definitely not a joke

[db_pavnp]

My immediate impression upon reading this thread and my personal experience with clinical education both conclude that:

 

Given a good lecture, there are students who have to go beyond lecture and those that don't.

There are more teachers who give miserable lectures than teachers who give good ones.

 

Learning on your own is cool and all, but programs who waste your time with miserable lectures should be shut down.  Too bad there is no functional policing of it.

[gbrothers98]

First, I always discuss with students that an important thing to do in this process is to make it your own. That means the insight and advice you get from others is their own experience. Your own mileage will vary.

 

Lecture is a tricky thing. There are multiple factors that lend to getting something out of lecture. The delivery is important along with an appropriate level for the audience. The audience needs to be ready and invested. That is difficult at end of the day and when the audience is overloaded and overwhelmed. It is why a good lecturer can will understand that most adults will lose interest at the 10-20 minute mark. Have to insert something to get their attention like an in class exercise plus insert some plain old breaks.

 

The audience also needs to engage prior and during the lecture. Prereading is immensely helpful. Not to read every last word about a topic but to have a broad general outline. Some advance organizers to answer specific questions from the lecturer or faculty are very helpful also. The response from students is that prereading takes too much time. If so, then they are spending more time doing it than necessary, should take no more than 15 minutes. Those whom describe lectures as a joke are not being engaged but also need to understand this is a process without shortcut. At the same time there should be opportunity to do self directed and small group learning during the day to break up the lecture time. 

 

Students whom state they are learning everything outside of class are misunderstanding the learning process. To believe that everything will be learned the moment delivered in lecture are kidding themselves. Prereading, engaging in lecture on some level, reviewing the material from lecture either individually or in group along with self assessment in the form of practice exams will lead to success. This process cannot all be done in the classroom but bringing some into the classroom will make the process more interesting than 8 hour of lectures daily with 30 minutes for lunch.

 

G Brothers PA-C

[MT2PA]

We are essentially told: learn it before the lecture so that lecture is a time to review and clarify and when you study later you're actually doing a second review, not trying to learn it still. I would say for some courses half our class skips (in the courses where attendance isn't mandatory) bc people feel their time is better spent learning on their own instead of listening to a rote script (which we get copies of). Depends on your school, the lecturer, your comfort with the material, and your learning style.

[jlumsden]

I would wonder if the rise of laptops and smart phones has affected students' interpretation of how much they are getting out of lecture.  Those are brilliantly designed distraction machines -- I realized early what I was falling into, and resolved to turn them off during lecture.  I took notes on paper.  (GET OFF MY LAWN!)

 

Without the laptops, I realized that my ability to focus was affected by the quality of the lecture.  Some were very good, and challenged me intellectually, or presented the material in an entertaining, memorable way.  One of our faculty has a play, with costumes, describing the menstrual cycle.  Other lecturers opt to read Power Point slides that are dense with text, and I fought harder to pay attention.  What I got out of it varied from day to day.

 

That said, I'd suggest that people who come into lecture with a preformed attitude that they will get nothing out of it will experience just that.  They've given themselves permission to check out.  Such an mindset is a guaranteed waste of tuition dollars.

[SHU-CH]

 I would say for some courses half our class skips (in the courses where attendance isn't mandatory) bc people feel their time is better spent learning on their own instead of listening to a rote script (which we get copies of).

 

If you pre-read as G Brothers has wisely suggested, the lecture is the perfect time for you to clarify any points that you found complicated or confusing.

 

The most important thing a class can do is provide clear objectives for each session. Your job is to meet those objectives. If you can meet them by reading on your own, going to lecture, searching the internet, talking to aunt Matilda, whatever. Just meet those objectives.

[pajourney]

Most of what we learn at my program is outside of class. Penn State doesn't require us to attend lecture classes. The only classes we are required to attend are the TBL's (Team Based Learning), where the teacher presents a patient, gives us the labs and physical exam findings, and then has us work in teams to figure out the diagnosis. We have the same teams each week, so we wind up competing kind of like a Trivia Night at a bar. It is a lot of fun and a great way to bring all of the material together in a cohesive and practical way. We do TBL class three times per week. I feel like I am learning a lot my didactic year and that I am being well prepared for clinicals next year.

[JBH11]

Most of what we learn at my program is outside of class. Penn State doesn't require us to attend lecture classes. The only classes we are required to attend are the TBL's (Team Based Learning), where the teacher presents a patient, gives us the labs and physical exam findings, and then has us work in teams to figure out the diagnosis. We have the same teams each week, so we wind up competing kind of like a Trivia Night at a bar. It is a lot of fun and a great way to bring all of the material together in a cohesive and practical way. We do TBL class three times per week. I feel like I am learning a lot my didactic year and that I am being well prepared for clinicals next year.

 

That sounds awesome. I've heard of a lot of programs adopting the TBL approach. 

[AREID]

Most of my knowledge was self taught and during rotations. Not a lot was from the classroom itself. With that said, I'm sure there was information that stuck with me without my realizing sort of through osmosis. But, you should get used to learning on your own!