Safety Schools to apply to

[samhamiam]

Hi everyone!

 

I just made this account solely for the purpose of having this question answered by other PAs for some guidance. I will be applying this upcoming cycle for PA schools and I wanted insight as to what schools I should include as a safety. I understand every applicant will be different and what is a safety for some is a reach for others. I have included very brief details regarding myself below. 

 

Undergraduate major: Economics, 3.5 GPA honors college student then worked in banking for 2 years before switching to healthcare career

Worked as a dental assistant for 1.5 yrs, got my CNA certificate and will only be working half a year before I have to apply,

Volunteered at a hospital, soup kitchen and various health related community service (epilepsy awareness runs, etc)

Science: gen chem, physics, organic chem Cs (bad I know), bio, cell bio, human anatomy, medical terminology, micro bio, bio chem I received As. 

 

I understand this is a loaded question, but what were your safeties? How do I search which schools I'm competitive or have a good shot at getting into? How many schools should I even apply to? I do not want to leave anything behind this application cycle and apply to as many schools as I can afford. 

 

Thanks! 

[Guest MedLib42]

I chose my safety schools by first looking at places whose minimum requirements were well below what I had achieved (2.75 minimum GPA, low HCE requirement, etc). I even applied to some cert/associates programs that didn't require a Bachelors degree (I had two) and got in immediately. In addition, though, I also made sure my safeties met the following:

 

1) Lower number of applicants per cycle or per seat (for example, one of my safeties had 700 applicants for 60 seats, whereas most of the other schools I applied to had 1000-3000 applicants for 15-20 seats). This info is often available on schools' websites, but if it isn't, they are very often willing to give it to you if you contact them. 

 

2) How the average applicant profile compared to mine. I chose several schools where stats for their average accepted applicant, including GPA, GRE scores, HCE, and so on were much lower than mine. Again, you can either find this on schools' websites or by contacting them. This is important, because even some schools that have very low minimum requirements will still have very high applicant averages.

 

3) If the school is out of state for you, make sure they don't have a preference for in-state students or don't tend to accept a very low percentage of out of state students.

 

Based on your profile, I'd say that for you, another important thing might be to make sure you choose schools that consider dental assisting strong HCE Some love it, some won't accept it at all, and I do speak from experience as I was a dental assistant for a long time too. The first time I applied, about 10 years of dental assisting was my main HCE, and I contacted a bunch of schools - some flat out told me it wouldn't be accepted, so I was able to cross those off my list. 

 

As far as how many schools you should apply to, I know the rule of thumb for med school is usually around 10-20, and so that's what I stuck with and applied to at least 10 schools. 

[samhamiam]

I chose my safety schools by first looking at places whose minimum requirements were well below what I had achieved (2.75 minimum GPA, low HCE requirement, etc). I even applied to some cert/associates programs that didn't require a Bachelors degree (I had two) and got in immediately. In addition, though, I also made sure my safeties met the following:

 

1) Lower number of applicants per cycle or per seat (for example, one of my safeties had 700 applicants for 60 seats, whereas most of the other schools I applied to had 1000-3000 applicants for 15-20 seats). This info is often available on schools' websites, but if it isn't, they are very often willing to give it to you if you contact them. 

 

2) How the average applicant profile compared to mine. I chose several schools where stats for their average accepted applicant, including GPA, GRE scores, HCE, and so on were much lower than mine. Again, you can either find this on schools' websites or by contacting them. This is important, because even some schools that have very low minimum requirements will still have very high applicant averages.

 

3) If the school is out of state for you, make sure they don't have a preference for in-state students or don't tend to accept a very low percentage of out of state students.

 

Based on your profile, I'd say that for you, another important thing might be to make sure you choose schools that consider dental assisting strong HCE Some love it, some won't accept it at all, and I do speak from experience as I was a dental assistant for a long time too. The first time I applied, about 10 years of dental assisting was my main HCE, and I contacted a bunch of schools - some flat out told me it wouldn't be accepted, so I was able to cross those off my list. 

 

As far as how many schools you should apply to, I know the rule of thumb for med school is usually around 10-20, and so that's what I stuck with and applied to at least 10 schools. 

Thank you so much for your very helpful response!! Yeah I heard the same about dental assisting, I will ask around. Would you mind sharing some of the schools you applied to, especially since I don't know which schools like dental assisting for HCE (which is why I did CNA too). Thank you again!

[EMEDPA]

if you apply to programs in states with 10+ programs you will probably be competing against smaller pools of applicants and/or have a better chance of making a wait list and getting a shot off said wait list.

[winterallsummer]

Apply to 10-12+ schools yep agree with above post and apply nation wide if you can that's best strategy. As far as backup schools I'd say any new program will probably be easiest to get into.

[EMEDPA]

agree that new programs are easier to get into, BUT you are a guinea pig at any new program as everything is untested including the faculty, the didactic curriculum, and the rotation sites. lots of potential for badness.

I think 10 schools is too many if you a good applicant. 5 should be fine. folks used to apply to one or 2 when there were only 50 or so.

apply to some "reach schools", some good fit schools, and a back up or 2.same idea as when applying for undergrad.

I applied to 5 undergrad programs and got into 3. I applied to 2 PA programs and got into 1.

[rpackelly]

How badly do you need to get in "anywhere" right away?  (Take a look at your reasons for this as well because they really had better be good ones that you can convince a committee with).  If you are a middle of the road or below applicant and you really need to go right now because your prereqs are aging out,  I advise applying widely and nationwide, applying to private schools primarily with the exception of your instate public programs, applying to all new schools and all schools with provisional accreditation, not applying to very well known schools, like Duke, Emory, Yale, University of Iowa, University of Washington, Stanford, etc. (forgive me all of the multiple other good schools but you get the idea), applying to all of the very expensive private schools especially those in marginally dangerous cities, very cold environments, or that you have never heard of before,  applying to schools with religious affiliations that you share or can abide by and can make a case for, etc.  For those schools with multiple campuses (Touro etc.), apply to every one of them.   I think you get the idea.  When you get the interview, find out everything you can about the history of the program, its faculty and perhaps alumni,  and present as though you would walk through fire to go there and specifically there, and make your reasons believable.   If they specialize in primary care for rural or underserved areas, make sure that is fine with you and they know it.  Convey great but realistic enthusiasm!

 

In general, I think almost every applicant who is flexible, determined and with enough money and mobility to go anywhere should be able to get in with persistence (two annual tries) but that is true with medical school as well.   The people I feel for are those constrained by money and geographic circumstances or family issues who have limited choices and frequently cannot afford to apply to twenty plus schools or go to the really pricey ones.  

[Maynard]

I think 10 schools is too many if you a good applicant. 5 should be fine. folks used to apply to one or 2 when there were only 50 or so.

apply to some "reach schools", some good fit schools, and a back up or 2.same idea as when applying for undergrad.

I applied to 5 undergrad programs and got into 3. I applied to 2 PA programs and got into 1.

I have to disagree with the advice here. You can't draw any reasonable conclusions from the fact that you got into 1 out of 2 programs, back in the 90s. I was a good (if unusual) applicant and got rejected without interview from most (8+) schools I applied to. What's more, of the schools I did score an interview with, there seemed to be little relationship between the competitiveness of a school and my ability to get an interview there. I was not able to convert any of my interviews into an acceptance, and I have not been able to pinpoint anything going wrong in the interviews that would get this result and no one I've sought feedback from (either schools or people I know personally or other applicants I interviewed with) has been able to suggest anything I should have done differently.

 

My point here is that PA admissions can be unpredictable -- much more so than undergrad programs. If it's important to you to get in this cycle, it's worth the application fees to extend your reach to 10+ schools.

[ddisilvestro]

I would caution against using the term 'safety school' because if you are accepted for an interview and cannot articulate why you choose their particular school, it may be difficult to get an acceptance. Even if you consider them a 'safety school' do your research on them and be able to articulate why the program is a good fit for your career goals and what they can offer to achieve those career goals. Programs will never want to hear they had 'lower GPA requirements' so you applied just in case your first choices schools don't work out.

[Derbingle]

Adcoms have seen it all Im sure, if you apply to five, top ten schools (national, geographical tec) and five non top ten, or programs way below the stats of the chosen five from the top ten, its obvious. Isnt it.

[fakingpatience]

Adcoms have seen it all Im sure, if you apply to five, top ten schools (national, geographical tec) and five non top ten, or programs way below the stats of the chosen five from the top ten, its obvious. Isnt it.

 

 

How would the programs know where else you applied to, unless you choose to divulge that information? 

[Z PA-C]

I don't think there is any such thing as a safety school. I promise you that people have gotten rejected from programs that they thought they were a shoe in for and others have been accepted to schools they never in a million years thought they had a chance with. Bottom line is you don't know until you apply. I do however think that depending on how competitive of an applicant you are there is a safe -number- of programs you can apply to which EMEDPA suggested earlier.

 

I would say 5 for a stellar applicant.

10-15 for an average to above average applicant.

15-20 for an average to 'iffy' applicant

And 0 for a poor applicant because you should just save your money, take a year to improve and apply the next cycle (unless of course money is not an issue).

 

Just my 2 cents

 

[SHU-CH]

People still find it hard to believe, but many (most?) PA schools do not care where else you applied to.

 

When we look at applicants, we have one interest: will this person thrive in this particular program at this particular time? If you get rejected everywhere else in the world but we feel like you have what it takes and you look like a good fit and we have a seat you are in. We have also rejected applicants who were sitting on acceptances from some highly regarded programs because it did not seem like a good fit.

 

There are smart people all over the place. It takes more than smarts to make a good PA, and schools really try to find applicants that are a good "fit."

[Derbingle]

Probably dont see which schools you apply to, I think they can see how many cant they? Anyway, way back in 2008 it came up at my interview, but not in the interview itslef but as conversation, in the get to know you standing around, so not unless they ask you directly I guess. I guess I feel you should apply to programs you really want to attend. Its gotten so technical. I hadnt even seen this site back in 2008 and just applied where I wanted to get training. Good luck.

[LESH]

How badly do you need to get in "anywhere" right away?  (Take a look at your reasons for this as well because they really had better be good ones that you can convince a committee with).  If you are a middle of the road or below applicant and you really need to go right now because your prereqs are aging out,  I advise applying widely and nationwide, applying to private schools primarily with the exception of your instate public programs, applying to all new schools and all schools with provisional accreditation, not applying to very well known schools, like Duke, Emory, Yale, University of Iowa, University of Washington, Stanford, etc. (forgive me all of the multiple other good schools but you get the idea), applying to all of the very expensive private schools especially those in marginally dangerous cities, very cold environments, or that you have never heard of before,  applying to schools with religious affiliations that you share or can abide by and can make a case for, etc.  For those schools with multiple campuses (Touro etc.), apply to every one of them.   I think you get the idea.  When you get the interview, find out everything you can about the history of the program, its faculty and perhaps alumni,  and present as though you would walk through fire to go there and specifically there, and make your reasons believable.   If they specialize in primary care for rural or underserved areas, make sure that is fine with you and they know it.  Convey great but realistic enthusiasm!

 

In general, I think almost every applicant who is flexible, determined and with enough money and mobility to go anywhere should be able to get in with persistence (two annual tries) but that is true with medical school as well.   The people I feel for are those constrained by money and geographic circumstances or family issues who have limited choices and frequently cannot afford to apply to twenty plus schools or go to the really pricey ones.  

Excellent advice rpackelly. Especially the last paragraph.

[biogirl]

I'm looking for some input. I was accepted to PA school a couple of months ago - stellar PANCE pass rates, very low attrition rates, and overall, I liked the school. I have been asked to interview at a few schools since then. A couple of them are brand new programs and under provisional accreditation. I applied to these schools because at the time of submitting my CASPA, I felt that I was a competitive applicant and wanted to give myself any chance of getting into PA school the first time around. Now I am wondering if it is worth my time to interview at these schools. I have already turned down a couple of interviews, which I never thought I would be doing. I want to be rational and responsible in my decisions. Advice?

[gbrothers98]

I'm looking for some input. I was accepted to PA school a couple of months ago - stellar PANCE pass rates, very low attrition rates, and overall, I liked the school. I have been asked to interview at a few schools since then. A couple of them are brand new programs and under provisional accreditation. I applied to these schools because at the time of submitting my CASPA, I felt that I was a competitive applicant and wanted to give myself any chance of getting into PA school the first time around. Now I am wondering if it is worth my time to interview at these schools. I have already turned down a couple of interviews, which I never thought I would be doing. I want to be rational and responsible in my decisions. Advice?

If you are accepted at your top choice, then take the offer. But ask yourself first, is this my top choice that satisfies all my requirements? Or is it my fantasy choice and I am surprised they said yes?

I applied to 10 schools in the late 90s. Interviews at 5, accepted by 3. My top fantasy choice was MEDEX, did not get an interview. I went to Albany Med, inexpensive at the time, close to family, familiar with area.

Good luck

G Brothers PA-C

[gbrothers98]

Hi everyone!

 

I just made this account solely for the purpose of having this question answered by other PAs for some guidance. I will be applying this upcoming cycle for PA schools and I wanted insight as to what schools I should include as a safety. I understand every applicant will be different and what is a safety for some is a reach for others. I have included very brief details regarding myself below. 

 

Undergraduate major: Economics, 3.5 GPA honors college student then worked in banking for 2 years before switching to healthcare career

Worked as a dental assistant for 1.5 yrs, got my CNA certificate and will only be working half a year before I have to apply,

Volunteered at a hospital, soup kitchen and various health related community service (epilepsy awareness runs, etc)

Science: gen chem, physics, organic chem Cs (bad I know), bio, cell bio, human anatomy, medical terminology, micro bio, bio chem I received As. 

 

I understand this is a loaded question, but what were your safeties? How do I search which schools I'm competitive or have a good shot at getting into? How many schools should I even apply to? I do not want to leave anything behind this application cycle and apply to as many schools as I can afford. 

 

Thanks! 

No such thing as a safety school. Acceptance to PA school is all over the map. I interview applicants at a PA school and I have seen them turn away very viable candidates for poor performance in the interviews. You should have programs that are high priority because they meet criteria important to you. Then decide if those criteria are hard or if there is some flexibility. The bottom line is whom will invite you to an interview, then who will accept you. You may find your safety schools wont want anything to do with you or may be the best (luckiest) decision in your life.

Good luck

G Brothers PA-C

[epsmith]

I'm looking for some input. I was accepted to PA school a couple of months ago - stellar PANCE pass rates, very low attrition rates, and overall, I liked the school. I have been asked to interview at a few schools since then. A couple of them are brand new programs and under provisional accreditation. I applied to these schools because at the time of submitting my CASPA, I felt that I was a competitive applicant and wanted to give myself any chance of getting into PA school the first time around. Now I am wondering if it is worth my time to interview at these schools. I have already turned down a couple of interviews, which I never thought I would be doing. I want to be rational and responsible in my decisions. Advice?

I committed to the first school I was accepted to, and declined further interviews...BECAUSE the first school was my top choice, I had no doubts that it was my top choice, and financially it made more sense (in-state).  If you have any doubts, however, go to the other interviews! 

[samhamiam]

Thank you all for such helpful comments! I greatly appreciate them!