new program not what I expected and I want out

[mediman]

I am in such turmoil over what to do. I'm in a brand new program and unfortunately I am totally disappointed. I was lied to about what to expect and just about everyone in the class wants out and is miserable. Two people have already dropped because the curriculum is weak and the environment is so hostile and toxic. I want out too, but I’m worried dropping out of a program will hurt my chances of getting into another one. Has anyone ever dropped out because they were in a program that was just not a good fit for them and got accepted somewhere else? If I leave am I basically walking away from my dream of being a PA?<O:p</O:p

[DrPA]

My gut reaction is that I would suck it up to avoid the application process again. Is it really that bad? How is the curriculum weak and the environment toxic?

[GREATMDPA]

Two things you can do:

 

1) If the curriculum is weak and you don't feel you're learning enough to prepare for clinical practice, and to avoid the hassle of reapplying and possible moving to a another location for the new program, you can read extra materials to gain more medical knowledge. CMDT, Harrison's, Blue prints are excellent books to read.

 

2) If you absolutely want out, I wouldn't drop out yet until I know for sure I get in another program. So stay in the program but submit your CASPA this coming April and explain in your personal statement the reason you're applying. Strive hard to get good grades so you can show the program(s) you're applying to that you're "competent" to succeed in PA school.

 

Good luck

[themanpete]

I have heard the program you are talking about is terrible. I am so glad I pulled my package from them. I would drop and reapply elsewhere, you will get in, might have to do some explaining but thats life.

[bmc11]

That sounds pretty terrible. If this environment is not allowing you to thrive, not contributing to your success and happiness and not preparing you for your goal of being a good physician assistant, then why stay?

 

Yes, in life there are certain things through which we have to suck it up and stick it out. But those are usually things in which we know we will satisfactorily achieve the end goal... PA programs are already grueling enough even with a supportive faculty and structured curriculum. Sometimes "sucking it up" won't cut it, and it's nothing to do with a student's abilities or efforts. From what I'm picking up, you are sincerely concerned and frustrated. The hostility concerns me even more than a weak curriculum. With a good environment, people may work together to improve curriculum and invest in students. But in such a poor environment, it's that much harder for things to improve.

 

While I do not think that dropping from the program would hurt your chances of getting into another program too much, you will have to explain why you chose to give a new program a chance in the first place. Why did you choose it over other programs? (I know you mentioned that you felt lied to about what to expect, for one.) Are your stats competitive for reapplying? Do you feel that if you try your hardest to go the extra mile, you will still not be getting enough out of your education due to the poor env't and curriculum? Is the clinical year just as insufficient, or might great clinical opportunities make up for dissatisfaction and lack of preparation in the didactic year?

 

Speak to some contacts/admissions advisors at other programs and explain your situation. They'll probably have better insight than I can provide, especially considering that I haven't even started yet.

 

Sorry to hear about your situation. Hope you figure out a solution you can feel comfortable with. :) gl!

[livingandlearning]

What if you can't get into another school? I'm just saying? Is your school better than no pa school? And I would worry that your "word" alone would not be convincing to other pa schools, they might worry that you will say the same about them soon or you are just not "cut out" for pa school. (Don't kill the messenger, I'm just playing Devil's advocate) If they were to get their accrediation revoked, then that would not just be your "word" that the education/environment was subpar.

Also, a great pa I once shadowed told me while applying, "get into any schools you can, apply all over, you get out of pa school what YOU put into it". He was VERY highly regarded by all of the nurses and doctors in the ER with him to the point that everyone would only send their family members to him and the doctors were constantly consulting with him (P.S. one day with a smirk on his face he told me he went to pa school at some university that once had "textile" in the title, it didn't even sound legit)

Although it is not an ideal situation, there are other ways to learn including those mentioned above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the short duration of the pa education, there is a lot of self teaching and at home studying involved in pa school everywhere.

[rudypa]

What school/program is this? A hint? I know you are probably reluctant to identify, but any hints to area/state/city?? Keep some of us from applying!

[ameliab]

it's pretty obvious if you search the OP past posts...

[mediman]

Thanks for the thoughts, input and advice. I am not out to bash my program, its just not what I thought it would be. I have considered just continuing to keep my mouth shut, head down and just get through it but at some point that just seems like a waste of time, money, energy and most of all education to me. I want to be a good PA when i am finished am I dont think where I am can get me there. Things are so hostile between students and students, students and staff and even fighting among staff that I am not able to talk about this with anyone for fear that I will be dragged in the middle of it all. So far I’ve been able to keep a low profile and I want to keep it that way. There is lots of cheating in classes and backstabbing among students in attempts to position themselves. The staff is demeaning and threatens students regularly that they can be tossed out at anytime. The academics are not what I thought PA school would be. In one class for example, we have had 5 lectures in a row (1 1/2 hours each) on explicit sex education; not dysfunction or diseases just high school level mechanics of how it all works, its terrible! <O:p</O:p

I might have to take my chances and apply to other programs. I’m a nervous because I have applied to the other two programs in the area twice and did not get in. I think I may branch out and try other states or start looking at other careers. <O:p</O:p

[rudypa]

Here's my thoughts....

 

1. Don't change a career bc the "education" stinks! There are many of colleges and universities that are expensive, that don't meet a students needs.

 

2. Keep pluging along. To be honest, a lot of the didatic education is you studying and knowing your learning habits. I think 80% of lecture material at this point in your education is studing, reading and memorization of material. I would be more concerned if the clinical portion in your second year blows, bc that's where you want/need to have a good experience. You can learn all you want in class, but learning how to manage patient care and thinking critically is the most difficult task and one you will learn thru "practice."

 

It's difficult to get into a program. I can't imagine that everyday of your schooling is as "hollywood" as you describe ;) Trust me, in a career that is as competitive as it is, you are gonna have backstabbers and cut throats where ever you go. Cheating, now that sucks, but trust me, they will be the ones sorry when they get into clinicals and can't diagnose a runny nose!! Don't "quit" or give up. Apply to other programs, but by the time that comes around, you could be done with 1 year and starting clinicals.

 

What is "explicit sex education"?

[Iain1028]

This blows chunks, but I would suck it up, and get your degree.

 

If you quit won't you owe a bunch of money? What a bummer.

 

If the school is accredited, I would stick it out and go and talk to the Dean of the program nicely with your concerns. But stick it out, as a PA I often have to stick things I don't like out....

[livingandlearning]

No matter what school you get into your are not going to be able to control the dynamics of the student's relationships, my best advice is to stay out of it. You should be too busy studying to worry or get involved, even in a good program, if your program is not preparing you like you said then you have even more studying to do.

[Boatswain2PA]

If you have personal knowledge of people cheating then it is your obligation to report them. Check your student handbook to see if it describes the appropriate method of reporting it. If it is not in there, then go to your student advisor immediately and report it. I don't care what program you are in, or how poor you think the program is....I don't want dishonest people associated with my profession.

 

As to the quality of the program - It's your call what you do, but I recommend you tuff it out, don't complain in front of others, study your a$$ off, and never cheat. There are PANCE study guides out there that can help you pass it the test if the program doesn't cut it. YOU are primarily responsible for YOUR education.

 

Best of luck, I hope you keep us posted.

[LESH]

IMHO being a provisional program is always a challenge for everyone. BTDT X 2. You have made some serious accusations against fellow students, faculty and the program. I agree with others about speaking to the Program Director. Either as a class or let the student leadership do it. If that has been done and there were no positive results that's another story.

 

Only you know if this program is right for you. Good luck with this situation.

 

LesH

[Evan]

PA school (anywhere) is no walk in the park. IMHO when you put a group of people who have an intense desire to succeed (like your average PA student) into a pressure-cooker environment (like a typical PA school) you may get a pretty volitile mixture...

 

Hang in there. Keep your head down (low profile is good, posting caustic messages on a public forum may not be the smartest idea... just sayin'...), study heard, and, most of all, don't get caught up in the petty sniping that you are describing... Certainly stay away from those who may be cheating, there's no need to be guilty by association...

 

I'll second those who have already posted that your education is about you... not about the guy 3 seats down who's sleeping through today's IM lecture.

 

I hope this doesn't come off as harsh,

 

Good Luck.

[ugh]

I feel sorry for your situation. I too went to a terrible school that no one thinks should even be accredited. I had no idea PA education was so bad. I regret being a PA and should've gone to medical school instead. I will NEVER hire anyone from my school, and every time I see a PA who thinks s/he is a hot shot I want to vomit. This profession is a joke.

 

But, here's some advice: don't go to the Dean. the Dean doesn't give a damn. The Dean is there to make sure the school makes money. And, if professors are always trying to be intimidating they will get their turn. Fortunately, my class was not the backstabbing type, and although I liked the dean in our program it was the people above him who were forcing him to do things that disregarded our education. Sometimes the dean is just stuck and going to that person is NOT going to do anything for you but get you on a list to get kicked out. Also, if anyone is cheating you are NOT obligated to report them. It's the ScHOOL"S responsiblity to ensure students aren't cheating, and if they can't manage to do that that's THEIR problem. Reporting your classmates is only going to get you in trouble with that individual, and you don't know what people are capable of.

 

Since you've already applied twice before and didnt' get in, just suck it up and DON'T SAY A WORD. Trust me, they are watching everyone who speaks out. As long as the stupid program is accredited at the moment just stay there. If it were on probation I would tell you to drop out.

[just_me]

Seesh looking at your previous posts you are just a suuuuuuuper bitter person.:sadface: im sorry you had such a horrible experience but condeming EVERYONE and EVERYTHING associated with the professional is simply absurd. I know a few med students that simply hated their programs but toughed it out...god forbid you should end up in a medical program with a similar outcome....then you may curse the whole world of medicine to he*ll and claim that theres some sort of conspiracy going on to ruin your life.:sad:

 

Its funny that you see the profession as joke now since you didnt while you were applying.:heheh: If you truly feel that being a PA is a joke I hope you choose to quit now and move on to something different....last thing medicine (and the profession) needs is another bitter, sad, useless person who would rather be doing something else. I hope you take some time to grow up before applying to med school and be ready to explain how you couldnt hack it as a PA student....muchless a PA.:heheh:

 

1. Education in general is overshadowed by polictics...do you think this goes away for med school? Naaaaaahhhhhhh if you do then youre in for a rude awakening.

2. Just because the Deans hands may be tied on some issues, doesnt mean they do not care.

3.There are ways to notify admin of cheating without identifying yourself....most adults can figure out a way (i.e. sending a note, making an anon. call etc)

4. If you notify admin without identifying yourself how will the individual reported know? Unless you run your mouth about it ofcourse.

 

 

I feel sorry for your situation. I too went to a terrible school that no one thinks should even be accredited. I had no idea PA education was so bad. I regret being a PA and should've gone to medical school instead. I will NEVER hire anyone from my school, and every time I see a PA who thinks s/he is a hot shot I want to vomit. This profession is a joke.

 

But, here's some advice: don't go to the Dean. the Dean doesn't give a damn. The Dean is there to make sure the school makes money. And, if professors are always trying to be intimidating they will get their turn. Fortunately, my class was not the backstabbing type, and although I liked the dean in our program it was the people above him who were forcing him to do things that disregarded our education. Sometimes the dean is just stuck and going to that person is NOT going to do anything for you but get you on a list to get kicked out. Also, if anyone is cheating you are NOT obligated to report them. It's the ScHOOL"S responsiblity to ensure students aren't cheating, and if they can't manage to do that that's THEIR problem. Reporting your classmates is only going to get you in trouble with that individual, and you don't know what people are capable of.

 

Since you've already applied twice before and didnt' get in, just suck it up and DON'T SAY A WORD. Trust me, they are watching everyone who speaks out. As long as the stupid program is accredited at the moment just stay there. If it were on probation I would tell you to drop out.

[bosox2k1]

I feel sorry for your situation. I too went to a terrible school that no one thinks should even be accredited. I had no idea PA education was so bad. I regret being a PA and should've gone to medical school instead. I will NEVER hire anyone from my school, and every time I see a PA who thinks s/he is a hot shot I want to vomit. This profession is a joke.

 

But, here's some advice: don't go to the Dean. the Dean doesn't give a damn. The Dean is there to make sure the school makes money. And, if professors are always trying to be intimidating they will get their turn. Fortunately, my class was not the backstabbing type, and although I liked the dean in our program it was the people above him who were forcing him to do things that disregarded our education. Sometimes the dean is just stuck and going to that person is NOT going to do anything for you but get you on a list to get kicked out. Also, if anyone is cheating you are NOT obligated to report them. It's the ScHOOL"S responsiblity to ensure students aren't cheating, and if they can't manage to do that that's THEIR problem. Reporting your classmates is only going to get you in trouble with that individual, and you don't know what people are capable of.

 

Since you've already applied twice before and didnt' get in, just suck it up and DON'T SAY A WORD. Trust me, they are watching everyone who speaks out. As long as the stupid program is accredited at the moment just stay there. If it were on probation I would tell you to drop out.

 

From your post history, I assume you attend one of the MCPHS branches...either Boston or Manchester/Worcester. I attend the Boston program and I sure hope you aren't attending there because MCPHS Boston has been great. Great teachers, great program thus far. Manchester/Worcester are completely separate, so I cannot speak about that school at all, but to label the entire profession as a joke is ignorant and I'd rather you quit now than be a colleague of mine someday. You sound like a bitter student who got into a program that you can't handle.

[marilynpac]

I feel sorry for your situation. I too went to a terrible school that no one thinks should even be accredited. I had no idea PA education was so bad. I regret being a PA and should've gone to medical school instead. I will NEVER hire anyone from my school, and every time I see a PA who thinks s/he is a hot shot I want to vomit. This profession is a joke.

 

But, here's some advice: don't go to the Dean. the Dean doesn't give a damn. The Dean is there to make sure the school makes money. And, if professors are always trying to be intimidating they will get their turn. Fortunately, my class was not the backstabbing type, and although I liked the dean in our program it was the people above him who were forcing him to do things that disregarded our education. Sometimes the dean is just stuck and going to that person is NOT going to do anything for you but get you on a list to get kicked out. Also, if anyone is cheating you are NOT obligated to report them. It's the ScHOOL"S responsiblity to ensure students aren't cheating, and if they can't manage to do that that's THEIR problem. Reporting your classmates is only going to get you in trouble with that individual, and you don't know what people are capable of.

 

Since you've already applied twice before and didnt' get in, just suck it up and DON'T SAY A WORD. Trust me, they are watching everyone who speaks out. As long as the stupid program is accredited at the moment just stay there. If it were on probation I would tell you to drop out.

 

 

Maybe the medical field isn't meant for you and visa versa .......

[Firemedic13]

I feel sorry for your situation. I too went to a terrible school that no one thinks should even be accredited. I had no idea PA education was so bad. I regret being a PA and should've gone to medical school instead. I will NEVER hire anyone from my school, and every time I see a PA who thinks s/he is a hot shot I want to vomit. This profession is a joke.

 

But, here's some advice: don't go to the Dean. the Dean doesn't give a damn. The Dean is there to make sure the school makes money. And, if professors are always trying to be intimidating they will get their turn. Fortunately, my class was not the backstabbing type, and although I liked the dean in our program it was the people above him who were forcing him to do things that disregarded our education. Sometimes the dean is just stuck and going to that person is NOT going to do anything for you but get you on a list to get kicked out. Also, if anyone is cheating you are NOT obligated to report them. It's the ScHOOL"S responsiblity to ensure students aren't cheating, and if they can't manage to do that that's THEIR problem. Reporting your classmates is only going to get you in trouble with that individual, and you don't know what people are capable of.

 

Since you've already applied twice before and didnt' get in, just suck it up and DON'T SAY A WORD. Trust me, they are watching everyone who speaks out. As long as the stupid program is accredited at the moment just stay there. If it were on probation I would tell you to drop out.

 

Your advice is awful. You are telling someone who might later have people's lives in their hands to a) be unethical, and b) be a coward.

 

Which means that you are probably an unethical coward. Congrats. I think I like you least of all the people I have met on this board.

[rev ronin]

If it's any consolation, after reading this thread, I'm super happy to be attending a program that's 100% pass/fail, and thus has no class standings or ranking. It's hard enough just to cover the PA school curriculum well--adding in student/student rivalry on top of that does indeed seem toxic to me.

[bosox2k1]

If it's any consolation, after reading this thread, I'm super happy to be attending a program that's 100% pass/fail, and thus has no class standings or ranking. It's hard enough just to cover the PA school curriculum well--adding in student/student rivalry on top of that does indeed seem toxic to me.

 

From my standpoint, at my school there is absolutely no rivalry that I see. I see no evidence of people upset they got a 89 and their friend got a 92. Maybe it is just my class, but we really could care less who does the best. We know we are all capable of doing very well and we help each other out constantly. Then again, not every school is the same.

[Magicnubs]

If it's any consolation, after reading this thread, I'm super happy to be attending a program that's 100% pass/fail, and thus has no class standings or ranking. It's hard enough just to cover the PA school curriculum well--adding in student/student rivalry on top of that does indeed seem toxic to me.

Florida State University's med school doesn't report class ranking. My pre-health group had a round-table with some medical students recently and they all really seemed to enjoy that and said that it facilitated learning; keeps competition, backstabbing and emotion from getting in the way of creating professional, collaborative health-care professionals.

[just_me]

That doesnt keep people from talking aboutit. One place I intreviewed riiiiiiiiight at the tail end of the interview one student said "hey make sure you guys keep your grades to yourself. if a person is asking what received you get on a test its either the make themselves feel better because they did just as bad or they want to feel better because they did better than you" that left a bad taste in my mouth that she would find her classmates so competitive. I also didnt think it was something worth talking about in an interview...anywho, this school is also pass/fail. While the class has no official ranking you do receive actual grades on tests.

 

Florida State University's med school doesn't report class ranking. My pre-health group had a round-table with some medical students recently and they all really seemed to enjoy that and said that it facilitated learning; keeps competition, backstabbing and emotion from getting in the way of creating professional, collaborative health-care professionals.

[ugh]

I am in such turmoil over what to do. I'm in a brand new program and unfortunately I am totally disappointed. I was lied to about what to expect and just about everyone in the class wants out and is miserable. Two people have already dropped because the curriculum is weak and the environment is so hostile and toxic. I want out too, but I’m worried dropping out of a program will hurt my chances of getting into another one. Has anyone ever dropped out because they were in a program that was just not a good fit for them and got accepted somewhere else? If I leave am I basically walking away from my dream of being a PA?<O:p</O:p

 

If you go to the Dean and it's not anonymous be sure you go with other people because you WILL get kicked out of school. It's the same type of attitude that medical residents face all the time..regardless of any unethical/dangerous behavior by the attending whether purposeful or not is tolerated. It needs to be people at that person's level or above before anything will seriously be done. Even if you have enough evidence the school will always take the side of the person in authority and nothing will be taken seriously until, in most situations, things go to court.

 

I was/am very bitter and yes, it shows in my posts. It was not appropriate to label the entire profession as a joke. And, yes politics happen at every level and with every profession. It's a part of life. There come's a point however, when it gets too out of control and people are actually put in danger (I mean physically). I cannot post what actually happened at our school one day, but let's just say several people had to go to therapy afterward. The school did not want to take responsibility even though we kept telling them that there's something terribly wrong with this situation (someone' s behavior). this situation was resolved with police involvement very inconspicously. The school did not tell us they had implemented plans to prevent this person from going postal. They didn't address it at all. Rather they let us sit in school thinking someone was going to go postal (we all thought this, not just me and you would too if you knew what happened). They didn't say anything because they didn't want to admit wrongdoing. They didn't want to admit wrongdoing because students threatened to sue the school. So what seems like bitterness about a curriculum isn't really about the curriculum or the profession itself. Given how bad this situation was and the absolutely absurd excuses we got prior to this point and the very poor handling of this situation even with all the warning signs and student complaints it didn't any good. This situation just took me out of my naieve brain that schools are generally good and want to help to the reality of it really being about money. So, if a situation can be this bad even after formal complaints and warning signs and they still didnt' do anything, just think what would happen to you.

 

We all hopefully learn from our mistakes and I think this school has learned. And, yes, I think it's time for me to let it go now and to move on. I actually enjoyed all of our professors but one and thought the dean was a wonderful, hardworking person.