callingly Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hi all, I had written to this forum a ways back because I had had an experience shadowing that I had found alarming. My shadowing physician had said that he wanted clones of himself when he hired pa's. I had written in asking all of you if this was a common sentiment among physicians since I didn't see myself being a clone. I also wrote what I want to be with respect to other people, things like I always wanted to treat people in what I considered to be the best way possible. A lot of people had responded to me, many reassuring me that this wasn't the case in all doctor's offices, but something had shifted in me and I found myself not wanting to be a PA, anymore. A few points: I have plenty good grades to go to PA school, and recommendations, volunteer time, etc. It is something I could do. Prior to 6 weeks ago, I was set to apply to PA school this spring. I was super excited to be a PA until 3-6 weeks ago. I found the primary care work I have observed to be painfully boring. I know I would dislike it. My background is in wellness and I love wellness. I know I would be dissatisfied if I had to prescribe only pharmaceuticals when I believed there were modalities with better results and/or lower side effects. I do believe drugs have a legitimate place in health care. I am creative and bright and if I don't get to use these qualities, I won't be satisfied with my work. I know I would find it tedious dealing with insurance, as I have observed it while shadowing. I don't much like the tangible effects of the new outcome based medicine in Obamacare, as my shadowing physician explained it to me. Do you think I would feel more optimistic if I were to shadow a PA in a specialty other than primary care, an area that I found more interesting? Surgery? Is the problem primary care or is it something deeper? I wonder if I am fundamentally at odds with the job of being a PA or if I can get excited about it again. Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndpa09 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Try emergency medicine if you need something less boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted January 4, 2014 Administrator Share Posted January 4, 2014 I send more people to physical therapy than I prescribe narcotics to. Your practice is what you make of it, really. I work with great docs in a system where I can send people to an acupuncturist if it seems to be the best way to go, and in most URIs I can say "Call me if you're not better in X days, and I'll prescribe antibiotics then." If you don't like insurance, do concierge medicine. If you like wellness, then the ACA stuff should actually be up your alley. Sure, lots of the metrics are artificial, but trying to keep A1c's in check and hypertension controlled are actually probably good things in the long run. No job is perfect. I miss being able to set my own schedule, predict my day, and work from home like I did when I was in IT. There are certainly tedious and stupid parts of any job... but I get to actually help keep people healthy, and get paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbingle Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Surgery it stimulating, demanding, you can educate people on wellness, how to improve. But there is no getting away from admin stuff for parts of the pa job. There are jobs where people do community education. Er isnt boring but not much time for education. As far as being a clone, id say that is and exception, not a rule. I work with 40 different ER docs (over four hosp system) and the spectrum runs from "do you what you like, think is right, tell me the logic, or dont tell me the logic and leave me alone ;) and its good" and also "here is what I want and why" and lots of variation in between. Basically be as independent as you want or have support. Hec I feel like im growing up in the er with so many parents to advise me, hahahaha, what is it that you imagine yourself doing? Hope this helps a litte. Sometimes your gut is telling you something. Sometimes its just to confirm and acknowlegde what a big bite your about to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrsmurf Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 From what you wrote, sounds like you may enjoy ortho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 It is difficult trying to figure out what to do with your life. You don't get to talk with everyone or see every possible job for a given career. There are lots of sour people in medicine, and in other careers as well. That said, I've found that docs would like to train their own PAs so that they can have faith that we'll do what they might have done in the same situation. My SP doesn't expect me to be an automaton and I have definitely developed my own style and strategies. I use lots of pharmacology (given my specialty) but also work with patients on diet, exercise, smoking cessation, proper management of congestive heart failure, etc. Sometimes we glom onto a goal and then decide it isn't the right one for us. That could be the case with your goal (until recently) to be a PA. I would encourage you to shadow some other people and begin exploring other careers as well. There is nothing that says that you have to apply right now, nor that you have to accept if you are offered a slot. Sometimes we can be so focused on checking all the boxes needed to get to our goal that we miss the fact that our goal is changing. Before you climb the ladder, make sure that it's leaning against the right wall. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblu Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 If you are thinking of being a PA, shadow a PA. Shadowing a doctor doesn't help you see what a PA does. I find primary care boring too, but I do more than I'd like although I'm in the ED. It's a personal decision. This job is not for everyone. I adore my job and my coworkers and am fortunate that nobody expects me to be their clones. Because I don't work with the same docs every day, we don't have the type of relationship where they'd think of me as "their" PA. We act like colleagues. Yes, some are a little more hands on and want to see more of my patients, but the majority let me do what I think is best. They know and trust me by now, you have to earn the independence. ER is not boring, you could try shadowing an ER PA. Surgery and ortho might work well for you. Pain management and Palliative Care are also areas where creativity and alternative therapies would integrate nicely. Good luck! Ultimately, don't force it. PA school is a lot of work, especially if your heart isn't in it. It was the passion for the profession that got me through many a dark, long day and kept me afloat when I wanted to give up. Without that, success would be hard to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 OP, I hear where you're coming from. There have been numerous posts/threads with regard to professional respect and how one is treated. I hear you with the concern about boredom since that's where I'm at presently (cliff notes version compared to earlier dissertation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Sounds like you are cut out to be a DO, perhaps in an integrative medicine/wellness setting. I have a feeling you would enjoy learning and applying osteopathic manipulative medicine and some DOs choose exclusive OMT practices. If you have the grades for PA you likely have the grades for DO. Have you taken MCAT? It's a long road but there are lots of good options if you keep your end goal in sight. Doesn't sound like you will be satisfied as a dependent practitioner and unfortunately the PA role is still there (although I am encouraged by the recent strides for collaborative practice at the VA, etc.) Best wishes to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will352ns Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTvU3BELZEo Couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callingly Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I am in my thirties and I know I don't want to spend 4 years in school to become a DO, but the freedom I think they have appeals to me. I guess the PA jobs that most appeal to me are ortho, if I can get interesting procedures and good hours, and concierge medicine. Are concierge medicine jobs hard to come by? Do you know what I love about working in wellness? I get to search for and use modalities that clients haven't encountered before because they aren't used in allopathic medicine. I get to learn and assimilate. I get to put puzzles together. Clients are often puzzled and hopeless when they reach me and I get to turn them around and surprise them by how well they can do. I get to create a vision for them about how their bodies could work and what their lives could be like with a healthy body, and I ask them to join me in that vision. So it's part non-allopathic health care and part motivation speaking. It feels really creative and satisfying to me. Clients are happy. They get results. I am happy with this work. I have so much freedom. I earn less money than I would like, because I work for someone else. I have less than would give me a comfortable retirement etc. Without any more schooling, here are two options I have: Figure out a way to earn more money as a nutritionist through marketing. I have yet to test this out. I have thought about starting a corporate wellness company. It's a growing field, especially with new Obamacare provisions. I don't need any further degrees, I just need to create a program and get results. It's risky. I would love changing a whole lot of lives. My SO is alarmed that I am considering not applying to PA school this year and also considering taking a break from classes and volunteering in order to try out these other options. PA is a pretty secure deal. A very good gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callingly Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Also, continuing to take classes and volunteer in addition to working full time would severely limit time that I could use to explore these other possibilities. I also don't want to start a class only to drop mid-semester because I think that looks less than stellar on my transcript. So it appears I am at a crossroads. Either one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I sent you a PM. Check your inbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 A very good gig, yes, but if you lack passion for it you will find the schooling and expense very disappointing indeed. IMO you are wise to consider your options thoroughly. No one ever suffered too much from sitting out one application cycle. It took me ten years to convince myself to go back to medical school--now six months from graduation I am very grateful and happy I did it but the expense has been tremendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 4, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2014 humm one shadow experience and you decide what you think of an entire career field? not good research my friend shadow some other PAs before you jump to conclusions that are not founded in fact As any experienced professional will tell you in any field - jobs are what you make of them...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdebord Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Are concierge medicine jobs hard to come by? I don't have any research on the subject, but I would think so. These clients tend to be high-rollers. I've discussed it with my uncle (an MD who has a concierge practice in Psych) and he said "They pay all this money, they expect to see the doctor, not a PA." I'm sure the jobs exist if you look hard enough, but probably not something you can count on, especially as a new grad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I don't have any research on the subject, but I would think so. These clients tend to be high-rollers. I've discussed it with my uncle (an MD who has a concierge practice in Psych) and he said "They pay all this money, they expect to see the doctor, not a PA." I'm sure the jobs exist if you look hard enough, but probably not something you can count on, especially as a new grad. I've wondered about this. But we may see an evolution of concierge practices where they aren't just for the wealthy but become approachable for a larger segment of the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AREID Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Explore your options w nutrition. Build your business, get out there and market yourself. If done right, this will earn you an income that completely surpasses that of a PA. You would make your own schedule, be your own boss, and would wake up ready to work everyday, because it would be something your PASSIONATE about. Don't be scared to take the leap of faith. The greatest risks often yield the greatest rewards Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted January 4, 2014 Administrator Share Posted January 4, 2014 I've wondered about this. But we may see an evolution of concierge practices where they aren't just for the wealthy but become approachable for a larger segment of the population. Yes. The ACA probably has done more than anything else to open up this possibility, by destroying traditional insurance and replacing it with something few like, thereby calling attention to the alternatives that have always existed, but never gained significant traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2234leej Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Have you considered going to grad school for physical therapy? I am a physical therapist who is considering going to PA school; however, many of the bullets that you mentioned are well represented in the PT profession. I have plenty good grades to go to PA school, and recommendations, volunteer time, etc. It is something I could do. - good grades are highly necessary for PT and PA school; if you can get into one there is a good chance you could potentially get in the other (different prerequisites though) Prior to 6 weeks ago, I was set to apply to PA school this spring. I was super excited to be a PA until 3-6 weeks ago. I found the primary care work I have observed to be painfully boring. I know I would dislike it. My background is in wellness and I love wellness. I know I would be dissatisfied if I had to prescribe only pharmaceuticals when I believed there were modalities with better results and/or lower side effects. I do believe drugs have a legitimate place in health care.- wellness is talked about 24/7 in PT. Pt's will ask you about all kinds of topics such as exercise, modalities, conservative management outside of exercise (acupuncture, dry needling, over the counter supplements, nutrition, etc.). One aspect of PT I do not like is not being able to utilize drugs as a conjunct form of treatment. Your job is essentially to get them to prior level of function through conservative management. Empowering the pt. I am creative and bright and if I don't get to use these qualities, I won't be satisfied with my work.- you need a ton of creativity in PT, especially if you don't use a cookie-cutter approach to each pt. Not all treatments work the same for each pt. I know I would find it tedious dealing with insurance, as I have observed it while shadowing.- I'm not sure you'll ever get away from insurance in the healthcare field; that is one aspect I do not like about PT or healthcare jobs in general. I don't much like the tangible effects of the new outcome based medicine in Obamacare, as my shadowing physician explained it to me. There is always two sides to every story. I am considering PA school because of reasons I do not like the PT profession. There's always going to be pros and cons for each profession. You just have to ask yourself which you can live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling684 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Am I missing something here? Why should anyone sell you on this field? If you don't like it, you don't like it... Go find something else. I'm sure you will make yourself and future co-workers much happier if you take your brightness and creativity and find a more introverted avenue. Excuse my harshness however, you need to think about what you say before you say it. You are asking advice from some of those who may work in primary care which you say is "painfully boring". You Sir/Ma'am need to get your superiority complex in check before you pursue any options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Work somewhere that utilizes an integrative medicine approach. Wellness centers, cancer hospitals, etc. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callingly Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I really want to thank everyone for their input. It's been extremely valuable to me. I came up with a plan: No classes this semester and no application this cycle. I will continue to volunteer since I enjoy it and will do my best to unearth some shadowing situations that seem like a better fit. In the meantime I will pursue my other two wellness plans and see if I can be successful with those. Sterling684: I didn't mean to offend anyone who works in primary care. I actually didn't say primary care is boring, just that I found it boring. It goes crosswise with my particular brain. Others may find it very rewarding. I meant only to note that it was a poor fit for me. I find it to be honorable work because it is so needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblu Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I was also going to suggest PT or OT, might be a good fit. Nobody should be offended by your post. I highly value the amazing, unsung work primary care providers do, but it's not for me. I find office settings tedious and don't like "normal" daily routines. Doesn't mean it's not a perfect fit for somebody else! A good friend of mine is probably the best surgery PA I've ever met, and she finds my work in the ER "for the birds". She hates chaos and likes to focus her giant brain on one case at a time. She's perfect for surgery. My brain finds any job with sustained attention span requirements "painfully boring", I'd suck as a surgeon. But give me several critical patients to juggle while I'm making phone calls and performing procedures, in the middle of alarms dinging, phones ringing, and drunks singing, and I'm in heaven. A lid for every pot. If we all liked the same field, that would be a huge problem! Let's not take things personally. OP didn't like primary care. S/he should be free to say so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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