Reasonable salary for 50 hour work week (Ortho)

[kem2127]

Just curious how common it is to have salary based on a 50 hour work week (This is Ortho). While I don't mind working 50 hours (5 x 10h shifts) OT doesn't start until after hour 50? I understand that Ortho tends to be heavier in hours but was surprised that the salary (while decent at around 94k but told its not flexible b/c its a 1199 union position) is based on a 50 hour work week and not 40... this makes the salary a lot lower per hour. 

 

I was informally offered a position (formal offer supposed to come on Monday) that is Tues-Fri 7a-5p and Sat Noon-10p (not thrilled about that) with 4 weekdays of OR (some ambulatory and some inpatient responsibilities) and 1 day of ER consults and Inpatient care on Saturdays. 

 

Just wondering if this is 1. normal and 2. decent salary for ortho. This is in NYC and I'm a new graduate with 5 years prior experience as an ATC. I've interviewed for ER and Transplant services at other hospitals that are 37.5 hour (3 days) and 40 hour (4 days) a week and have been unofficially offered 83 and 85k salaries. So 94k seems rather low for the extra hours and additional day. 

 

Thanks.

[EMEDPA]

sounds low given the hrs.

why not take the er job at 83k for 3 days and then find a part time job 2 days/week at higher pay/hr? you would likely end up with more than 94k

if you really are interested in ortho then stay with that but if you don't care maybe look around...

[Guest JMPA]

that is approximately 36$ an hour. nurses make more than that with better hours. plus as a new grad you will probably be overwhelmed with all those hours. i would tell them to shove it

[dmdpac]

How is OT only after 50 hours legal if you're being compensated hourly?  I'm not aware of anything that allows that.  Overtime is after 40 hours in a week if you're an hourly worker. 

 

If you're salaried, however, and extra compensation after 50 hours is written into the contract that would be something different.  Otherwise I'm not sure how they can get away with what they're offering.

 

EMEDPA has a good suggestion, too.

[ventana]

weird case law for PAs

 

out west the regional federal courts have said that PAs are hourly and have to paid overtime for time over 40

 

But in NYS we are viewed as Exempt and this does not apply - hence there is no legal requirement to pay over time

 

in the perfect world you tell the Ortho job the salary is not high enough ($32-36 per hour - depends on rather you do 1.5 time over 40)

 

If you have offers on the table figure out the hourly rate and explain with hard numbers where they need to be either with a 50 hour week or a 40 hour week....  

 

then realize that it is a process to get hired and it is the only time you truly have any power/leverage so you have to be up front, professional and a sales person to yourself - don't oversell you ability but be honest and point out the advantages you posses - ie ATC for 5 years - nice combo for Ortho and FAR better then a 22 yr old PA right out of school....

 

good luck

 

 

(i would actually recommend that you get a basic internal medicine job and burn in the basics of medicine over the next 1-2 years and then return to Ortho as an even better PA!)

[kem2127]

Thanks for all the suggestions, it's difficult because I enjoyed all of my clinical rotations, so choosing an area to focus on applying has not been easy. I realize there is no such thing as the perfect job as everyone has said on this forum over and over.

 

@Ventana- if a position is unionized doesn't mean it's a final offer and I have no flexibility in what they are offering? The Cheif PA told me the union sets it at 50 hours a week. Of course if OT started after 40 I would be thrilled. And HR told me that all new grads start the same. And actually most positions I interviewed with said that as well even if non union. They have a firm number for new grads.

 

@dmdpac- what ventana said makes sense. I also interviewed a well known hospital downtown for ortho which is supposed to be approx a M-F, 5 x 8.5 hour position, primarily non operative/outpatient ortho and was told the salary was "Low 80s" but no overtime was given and to be realistic that the day never really ends at 5:30 and will probably start at 8-8:30a could be somwhere between 8a-6p everyday depending on the MD or DO i was working with. Other hospitals, have told me if and when they do pay extra, it's only offer an hourly rate equal to your salary after 37.5 or 40 hours depending on your contract.

 

@EMEDPA-

Transplant-This position is actually 3 nights a week so its 83k plus differential but I'm unclear as if I want a 6:30p-7a position. If it was days I'd probably take it a second. While a great hospital, its also over an hour commute to this location. I'm shadowing the night team this week so will have a better idea of my interest. 

ED- This is a conditional offer for fast track, becoming 4 x 10 h shifts. The hospital is actually in walking distance to my house which is fantastic, but their agreement was being hired at 3 months of per diem and assuming the position was still open would then offer the FT at 85k. This would be variable hours so a mix of night and day. This makes me nervous, I'd hate to give up a FT elsewhere if they don't follow through, as I'm sure many qualified canidates come up in 3 months. The hiring process has been extremely disorganized and they are still trying to get paperwork from me (suddenly yesterday they want an offical transcript even though I previously submited my NYS license, NCCPA, DEA #, unofficial transcript and proof of graduation from the program). They also claimed they never recieved my recommendation letters but actually never mailed out their specific written forms to my peer references. And I already did drug testing and submitted my credentialing packet a month and a half ago.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Silly question maybe for some but how'd you get a DEA# as a new grad before having a SP to authorize?  Maybe things are different in NY than other states.

[kem2127]

The ED position required that I had it to submit the credentialing packet. So I was told by the DEA helpline to use them as the business location. I wondered this too, and so I called to make sure and I wasn't going to lose out on the $731 for the application. They told me to just put the hospital that required it and if anything changed with employment to just notify them as soon as possible.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Thank you for the clarification.

[rev ronin]

How is OT only after 50 hours legal if you're being compensated hourly?

Because you have a medical license, and are not covered by wage and hour laws, full stop.

[dmdpac]

Because you have a medical license, and are not covered by wage and hour laws, full stop.

 

 

Interesting.  I honestly did not know this part of labor law... just did some reading on it.

 

Interesting, too, that Ventana points out western states case law dictating to the contrary.

[ventana]

Because you have a medical license, and are not covered by wage and hour laws, full stop.

 not true

state dependent

 

be very careful with blanket statements in regards to employment issues as they are decided on a state or regional level (regions as determined by federal courts)

 

Some call us hourly some call us exempt....

[rev ronin]

Good clarification.  "Because you have a medical license, and are not covered by federal wage and hour laws, full stop."

[WeBuyAndSellJunk]

It is considered an exempt position, I assume?

[ventana]

Good clarification.  "Because you have a medical license, and are not covered by federal wage and hour laws, full stop."

not sure I have clearly stated this....

 

the federal courts are where this is decided but they are divided into different districts (or some other type of division) 

each area can decide on their own and on this topic they have, unfortunately they do not agree as some have said we are protected, and others decided differently....  

 

your contract also makes a difference

 

as does the region you are working in

 

and a WHOLE slew of other issues that an employment attorney or the state labor department will be able to advise.

 

 

 

It is not a simple question and the answer depends on where you live and your contract

 

 

 

I would STRONGLY encourage research done off this forum (through the state or searching legal decisions) before saying what is and is not.......

[EMEDPA]

I work in WA and do not get OT regardless of hours worked. I can work 250 hrs+/mo and get straight pay. ditto the docs in the group.

larger hmo style organizations are more likely to have unions and pay OT. other folks, not so much.

[kem2127]

For what it's worth I have by Monday to officially accept the night transplant position and I'm leaning towards it. Transplant offer salary breaks down to about $42/hr for days (the offer being 83k for 37.5h/week) and with 95% of the hours falling under night differential should be closer to a salary of 90k after training. Daytime Ortho salary was officially offered at $38.12/hr for first 50 hours and then $57 for anything over 50 hours.

 

I have decided that it makes the most sense that I can work a 3 night FT and then do a single 10 hour shift a week per diem at the local ER near me (who offered me the per diem transitioning to FT) and a 7 hour evening shift every 1.5 weeks for psych ER. This helps me get exposure to 3 different areas of medicine as a new grad and help me decide in the next 2 years what I really decide which I like best. Plus with a background as an ATC I think that getting Ortho offers in the future will still be easier than if I was a new grad with no related experience.

[kittryn]

For what it's worth I have by Monday to officially accept the night transplant position and I'm leaning towards it. Transplant offer salary breaks down to about $42/hr for days (the offer being 83k for 37.5h/week) and with 95% of the hours falling under night differential should be closer to a salary of 90k after training. Daytime Ortho salary was officially offered at $38.12/hr for first 50 hours and then $57 for anything over 50 hours.

 

I have decided that it makes the most sense that I can work a 3 night FT and then do a single 10 hour shift a week per diem at the local ER near me (who offered me the per diem transitioning to FT) and a 7 hour evening shift every 1.5 weeks for psych ER. This helps me get exposure to 3 different areas of medicine as a new grad and help me decide in the next 2 years what I really decide which I like best. Plus with a background as an ATC I think that getting Ortho offers in the future will still be easier than if I was a new grad with no related experience.

 

 

yikes. 3 nights/week and 2 other day positions? melatonin much? nights screw up your system big-time...I hope you're prepared for that.

 

otherwise it sounds like a decent strategy, esp with the ED screwing you over with the 3 month per diem "audition period".

 

no 8 hour/day PA job is ever 8 hours, esp in surgery. if you are hired on a M-F basis, you will most likely be putting in 60 hrs/week. you are owned, and expected to do whatever it takes to complete each and every workday, and more.

 

signed,

been there, done that.

[RealityCheck]

The ortho offer sounds awful and very gruntworkish, if that is a word.

I wouldn't commit to every Saturday, ever - unless some magnificent ER position came about that offered multiple days off in a row.

Anyway, the ortho offer doesn't sound healthy.

Be careful with the transplant and night shifts - they can make you batty and aren't real conducive to spouses and children who live during daylight hours.

I have never been paid overtime - always an exempt full time professional employee. 

 

Take care of yourself and hope it works out well.

[JMann]

Original poster started this thread nearly 2 years ago... wonder how this turned out?

[DelusionalEnthusiasm]

There was a recent case of a PA suing a hospital system and winning because they were not paid overtime for hours over 40. If you are an hourly employee in some states you qualify for overtime. If salary it's a different story.