Schools that require experience?

[cekeener16]

I've been working all summer just so that I am able to complete these 1,000 hours of experience some schools have. I honestly think it's some what of bull**** to require that many hours and what they count as acceptable experience. There are students like myself that want to go to these schools right after I graduate and I am expected to find a way to put in 1,000 hours. I am EMT certified and able to do that all summer, however no one in my area wants an EMT just for the summer so I find myself volunteering all summer long making absolutely no money. One of my biggest problems with that is I go to Lock Haven University. There they have a 3+2 program that I did not know about until it was too late. So what I am saying is there are programs for students to have to only get about 120 hours of experience and they graduate a year early. I know there are so many different ways to think about it like take a year off and work to complete the hours and all of that. Even the PA that I am currently working with did a 3+2 program and says that it's stupid that they require that much experience. He had to do no experience and did just as well on class work and tests. Just thought I'd speak my mind. Feel free to comment =]

[forgivexforget]

Almost every school I have heard of requires the 1,000 hours. It's a really essential part of applying for PA school. You learn a lot about healthcare through these hours, so it's a necessary component. As for getting paid, there are some schools who won't even accept paid experience. You need to get over the fact that you're not gonna get paid for these hours. I have been volunteering as an EMT for the past 3 years, and have never been paid for it. I probably have reached around 3,000 hours - but I'm not complaining. Volunteering somewhere is really different than getting paid to transport people from hospital to hospital. If I were you, I would stop complaining now. I'm not in PA school but if you can't handle giving up 1,000 unpaid hours to gain healthcare experience, then it looks like being a PA isn't for you.

[TarheelGirlx3]

Agree with the above poster. When I say I have 0 patience, I mean ZERO..I am with you about wishing I could just start right away...but there is a reason for it..they would not have it as a necessary component if it was not truly beneficial. Also, think of how much patient experience you will already have come clinical time. It will be something less awkward/frightening/new.

[cekeener16]

Okay I think you understood me wrong. Money is not my biggest problem. I mean I have done an internship in the OR where i scrubbed in and operated an arthroscopic camera number of times. I went with doctors to do pre and post op check ups. I learned to suture on patients when closing them up. I am currently working in orthopedics where I have learned to easily read an MRI and x-ray within seconds. I have administered Cortisone and Synvisc shots with easy under supervision of a PA. The PA has let me read the patient report and go in and fully do the procedure and plan for some patients. Once this experience ends I am about to do trauma research at my local hospital. All at the same time while keeping a 3.95 gpa through 2.5 semesters worth of classes. And if I do not reach that magical number of 1,000 hours by the time school starts I don't get in? Like even most places don't count research as experience when you have to complete research projects in PA school. I just feel that experience should be more based on quality compared to quantity. Schools will expect CNA as experience hours...nothing wrong with CNAs of course but you tell me 1,000 hours of helping elder throughout the day compares to 600 hours of what i explained above? Idk just doesn't seem fair to me.

[cekeener16]

accept CNA*

[TarheelGirlx3]

CNA doesn't always equal working in a nursing home..just a thought. I understand your frustration about it not being enough...but there is always a magic number unfortunately. Your work sounds awesome..do you have any other certifications besides an EMT? And how did you get those types of jobs?

[forgivexforget]

How come the hours of your OR internship or shadowing doctors don't count? I know some schools limit the amount of shadowing to only 250 or so, but it sounds like having an OR internship when you're in the room with the patient and the MD/PA seems like pretty legitimate healthcare experience to me.

[cekeener16]

Of course I was just giving an example for the CNA. I am only EMT certified and plan to just complete volunteer hours during school time. And the internships and experiences I have been doing are a lot of knowing people. Lol at the end of the day it does come down to who you know. Plus my school requires the experience with the a PA and I picked an orthopedic one that I was close with. Schools may not count that as experience though because I am technically only supposed to go and write logs on the patients I see. However, since the PA knows my potential and knowledge he allows me to do so much more than I am supposed to.

[GreatChecko]

I'll be honest, the first time I read this I thought it was flamebait. I'm not going to flame you, but put some Nomex on because you might need it as this thread continues.

 

This is all frustrating, but like many other medical professions, you have to jump through the hoops for the chance to just play the game. To make things even more "unfair", there are a ton of people on this board who meet all the minimum requirements, who have made innumerable sacrifices, and still cannot get into PA school for reasons beyond their control.

 

The experience requirements are there partly because that's what the profession is based upon and because it does make a difference. It's sounds like you have gotten some great opportunities, but most people in your shoes would not be doing or seeing half of what you have done. IMO, the last place you want to start figuring out how to work with patients is on your first clinical rotation!

 

We've all had to sit down, do some research, figure out what we value and what we are willing to give up to make becoming a PA happen.

 

Yes, there are schools out there that do not require HCE. I've also worked with students from one of those schools and I hate to say it, but the lack of experience showed. They weren't there to learn, they were along for a ride because they just didn't know what was going on. Medicine is a culture with its own language, and learning that while on a clinical rotation would be a waste of a student's and their preceptor's time. Of course people go zero to hero all the time, but that doesn't mean it isn't easy or the best way to go about it.

 

There is an analogy that I heard used a lot in aviation. As a rookie pilot, you are given a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. That pilot hopes that he will fill that bag of experience before his luck runs out. Working in medicine is much the same and I'd rather start filling that bag of experience as an EMT and not as a PA, when I have so much more on the line.

[mbalaban]

Being a medic for nearly 15 years now, I can say that there is a wealth of benefit of having direct contact with a patient and I don't mean just coming in to say, hi, I'm John Z and I'm here to take you to your x-ray. I mean actually interviewing patients, taking histories, addressing concerns of family and all the interaction that comes along with patient care. I have seen it all too often in my career. WAY WAY too many kids that go straight from HS to college to med school and have no idea what to do when they get into residency. It's amazing to me how their interpersonal skills suck so badly. But I digress. The experience requirement may be a "weed out" item much like GRE scores, but in practice, I think it makes a huge difference. Get comfortable being able to talk to people about difficult things. Be able to feel comfortable asking a patient if they have any STD's or a woman on her menstrual cycle, things of that nature. Trust me. I still remember how odd it felt delivering my first baby on the side of the road and asking the mom she had any STD's, moments before the head popped out.

[pacman54]

Okay I think you understood me wrong. Money is not my biggest problem. I mean I have done an internship in the OR where i scrubbed in and operated an arthroscopic camera number of times. I went with doctors to do pre and post op check ups. I learned to suture on patients when closing them up. I am currently working in orthopedics where I have learned to easily read an MRI and x-ray within seconds. I have administered Cortisone and Synvisc shots with easy under supervision of a PA. The PA has let me read the patient report and go in and fully do the procedure and plan for some patients. Once this experience ends I am about to do trauma research at my local hospital. All at the same time while keeping a 3.95 gpa through 2.5 semesters worth of classes. And if I do not reach that magical number of 1,000 hours by the time school starts I don't get in? Like even most places don't count research as experience when you have to complete research projects in PA school. I just feel that experience should be more based on quality compared to quantity. Schools will expect CNA as experience hours...nothing wrong with CNAs of course but you tell me 1,000 hours of helping elder throughout the day compares to 600 hours of what i explained above? Idk just doesn't seem fair to me.

 

You are not alone. I am 21 years old, hoping to make the transition directly to PA school. I will be graduating one semester early in time for any January start programs that I will be applying to. However, I was able to obtain 1,200 hours of HCE and 300+ hours of volunteering at nursing homes (I also has a research internship at my local medical college) all in the last 1.5 years of my undergraduate degree. I have a GPA of 3.87. You can achieve the 1,000 hours in your last couple of semesters! Getting the HCE was difficult. I was a full-time student in the day, and worked 3-4 overnight shifts in the ER per week with class the next morning, sometimes even exams! The point is I had to make sacrifices. We all had to! There are countless stories on this forum where people have had to rearrange their lives just to get a shot at PA school. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. I just think the amount of HCE demonstrates a commitment to the medical field as well as an understanding.

[Paramedic]

Nothing can beat experience, the PA field was founded for Navy Core Men to transfer into medicine and provide medicine to underprivileged areas. I think the requirement should be higher! 1000 hours is no way adequate to learn to interview and be comfortable making life changing decisions. I am a Paramedic and have been for the last 5 years; I still do not have all the answer and still get flustered on stressful calls. However, the experience I have will help me eventually as a PA. Experience is not something that cannot be replaced, not with knowledge or dedication; it is something that must be earned. When in doubt, we must put big boy pants on and jump through the hoops if we really want what is on the other side.

[waitingblessing]

U should know that the PA profession was brought about by people who had extensive hc training and experience. In hc. I think it is insane for schools not to require prior hc training and experience. Passing classes tests etc has nothing to do with being a good pa. And when I say good I mean care about someone and there health. If someone has already mentioned this please disregard.

[soxman352000]

I agree with the above poster, its insane for schools not to require experience. Text books are WAY WAY WAY different than real life. Case closed...

[JasonD]

It's not easy to accumulate the required HCE, nor is it glamorous or well-paying most of the time. But HCE is a way to demonstrate to the admission committee your commitment to become a PA. If anyone with a biology degree and a 3.8 GPA applied to PA school they'd be inundated.

 

The HCE requirement is a good way to screen out those who really want to be a PA from those who just see a well paying career with good job prospects. Think of the HCE as an apprenticeship to being a PA.

[mbalaban]

Why do people thing of HCE as just another "prereq" like a biology class? Do people really not understand the reason and benefit of experience and why it's so important?

[treblejig]

I would be scared to death to start a PA program with even less health care experience. I have almost 1000 hours as an EMT and it has only shown me how little I know.

 

Are you even allowed to do those things you said you did? Suturing, Cortizone shots, etc? I help the paramedics set things up for the patient, but I don't do anything invasive, nor would they let me. I know you said you are in a hospital setting doing those things...that sounds um-illegal? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

 

[EMEDPA]

I know you said you are in a hospital setting doing those things...that sounds um-illegal? Correct me if I am wrong.

my thought as well...

[cinntsp]

I've been working all summer just so that I am able to complete these 1,000 hours of experience some schools have. I honestly think it's some what of bull**** to require that many hours and what they count as acceptable experience. There are students like myself that want to go to these schools right after I graduate and I am expected to find a way to put in 1,000 hours. I am EMT certified and able to do that all summer, however no one in my area wants an EMT just for the summer so I find myself volunteering all summer long making absolutely no money. One of my biggest problems with that is I go to Lock Haven University. There they have a 3+2 program that I did not know about until it was too late. So what I am saying is there are programs for students to have to only get about 120 hours of experience and they graduate a year early. I know there are so many different ways to think about it like take a year off and work to complete the hours and all of that. Even the PA that I am currently working with did a 3+2 program and says that it's stupid that they require that much experience. He had to do no experience and did just as well on class work and tests. Just thought I'd speak my mind. Feel free to comment =]

 

Okay I think you understood me wrong. Money is not my biggest problem. I mean I have done an internship in the OR where i scrubbed in and operated an arthroscopic camera number of times. I went with doctors to do pre and post op check ups. I learned to suture on patients when closing them up. I am currently working in orthopedics where I have learned to easily read an MRI and x-ray within seconds. I have administered Cortisone and Synvisc shots with easy under supervision of a PA. The PA has let me read the patient report and go in and fully do the procedure and plan for some patients. Once this experience ends I am about to do trauma research at my local hospital. All at the same time while keeping a 3.95 gpa through 2.5 semesters worth of classes. And if I do not reach that magical number of 1,000 hours by the time school starts I don't get in? Like even most places don't count research as experience when you have to complete research projects in PA school. I just feel that experience should be more based on quality compared to quantity. Schools will expect CNA as experience hours...nothing wrong with CNAs of course but you tell me 1,000 hours of helping elder throughout the day compares to 600 hours of what i explained above? Idk just doesn't seem fair to me.

 

You come across as feeling too entitled and it's probably because you're young and all that goes along with that -- immature and naive. Your way of thinking is precisely one of the reasons that HCE is so valuable, regardless of what kind it is. It puts you in a place where you are truly responsible for a patient and the buck stops here; you're not just shadowing or playing operation. Med students have 4 + 3 or more years to gain the needed maturity but PAs are out there fully responsible for patients in as few as 24 months. There isn't all that extra time to grow up and become a humble, successful, professional provider.

[GreatChecko]

You come across as feeling too entitled and it's probably because you're young and all that goes along with that -- immature and naive. Your way of thinking is precisely one of the reasons that HCE is so valuable, regardless of what kind it is. It puts you in a place where you are truly responsible for a patient and the buck stops here; you're not just shadowing or playing operation. Med students have 4 + 3 or more years to gain the needed maturity but PAs are out there fully responsible for patients in as few as 24 months. There isn't all that extra time to grow up and become a humble, successful, professional provider.

 

Can we get an Amen!

[kris_]

I have worked since the day I turned 16 and had 1600 hours of healthcare experience before I even stepped foot in college. I worked 25-35 hours per week during college and feel that I have learned just as much outside the classroom as inside it. I paid for my college education, have paid off my student loans, and have over 2,000 hours of paid HCE before leaving college. It can be done.

[EMEDPA]

I have worked since the day I turned 16 and had 1600 hours of healthcare experience before I even stepped foot in college. I worked 25-35 hours per week during college and feel that I have learned just as much outside the classroom as inside it. I paid for my college education, have paid off my student loans, and have over 2,000 hours of paid HCE before leaving college. It can be done.

similar story for me as well. emt in high school then worked 26 hrs/week during college and 60 hrs/week during the summers as an er tech. then paramedic school after college and 5 yrs as a medic before becoming a pa.

[Guest]

bull****? It's hard to see a reason for needing a lot of hours, but there is a reason for it. Unfortunately, you will only be able to see this reason in PA school. Not many things makes you feel better in school than being able to "skim" through some topic you are being tested on, because you remember a patient with it. This leaves you more time to study things you don't know. I can't imagine going to PA school without experience.

 

Oh and also, the procedures you said you did.... that sounds illegal. Don't want to call you a liar but um, no PA or MD in their right mind would let someone do that.

[kris_]

Oh and also, the procedures you said you did.... that sounds illegal. Don't want to call you a liar but um, no PA or MD in their right mind would let someone do that.

 

Yes, I agree. That does sound illegal.

[EKR007]

Agreed. Closing up patients is something that residents do after 4 years of med school and some PA's in surgical rotations. I asked my dad (who is one of the directors of a residency program) about the chances of an EMT performing these duties and he said whoever let this person do this should lose their license.. so I really hope you're exaggerating.