DermPA0254 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I was wondering if anyone else is concerned about this? I recently read that in the next 2-3 years there will be EIGHTY new PA programs. This will not only produce tons of new grads but also make it much easier to get into a PA school. I've been very involved in AAPA over the past few years and have talked to many other PAs who have expressed that the "quality" of the field is slowly declining due to more grads and lower admission standards. Also, I've heard from many people that the salaries are declining quite a bit due to the field becoming so saturated with physician assistants. I'm concerned about what this means for the field and really wish all of these new programs would stop popping up so that the field can continue to be high quality along with the pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted February 4, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2013 Not that I disagree with your overall sentiment, but salary report says average income went up 7k...soooo....I can't agree that salaries are going down and I don't think they will. Poorer applicants gaining admission as schools fight to fill seats, likely if not already happening. Still, I believe the ARC-PA has standards they cannot go lower than, and they will still have to pass the pance. Soon enough they'll all have to have residency and CAQ. So the sky isn't falling yet IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdomingo Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Duke expanded their program from ~40 seats to ~80. This is because there is a DEMAND for PAs (specifically in the field of primary care) and it will continue to grow with 10,000 baby boomers turning 65 every year. With patient-centered medical homes set to gain leverage and with Obamacare coming into full effect next year, there will always be a need for more primary care providers. I am very excited (hopeful actually) to see healthcare turning away from tertiary care and more into preventive care, with PAs and NPs playing key roles in this transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koppma Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I read the same thing on AAPA's Facebook page and it says,"Eighty new PA programs are scheduled to open by mid 2016. These programs will need PA faculty, clinical sites and precptors so think about going into academia or precepting for your future peers and their patients." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TThielen Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I disagree on the quality of care going down, if anything I see it going up (as far as the quality of care from a PA). With so many people applying to PA school the competition is ridiculous and I find it hard to believe that schools have to scramble to fill seats. One of the schools I interviewed at last year had over 1100 applicants for 40 seats, that means only the top ~3% are getting accepted, sounds like the cream of the crop to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koppma Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Also, here is a link showing some of the programs that might be the 80 programs purposed. http://www.arc-pa.com/provisional_acc/applicant_programs.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted February 4, 2013 Administrator Share Posted February 4, 2013 I think it would be good if PAEA mandated 1,000 HCE hours for incoming applicants, just like they are mandating Masters' degrees. That would balance things out a bit more toward experienced mid-career health professionals, and might restrict the supply of new PA's somewhat... but would certainly benefit patients and keep quality up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Duke expanded their program from ~40 seats to ~80. This is because there is a DEMAND for PAs (specifically in the field of primary care) and it will continue to grow with 10,000 baby boomers turning 65 every year. With patient-centered medical homes set to gain leverage and with Obamacare coming into full effect next year, there will always be a need for more primary care providers. I am very excited (hopeful actually) to see healthcare turning away from tertiary care and more into preventive care, with PAs and NPs playing key roles in this transition. Is the demand coming from employers or from applicants? 80 programs each producing 25 graduates per yr would add an additional 2000 new PAs per yr to what is already being produced. That is a lot of PAs. I wish I had your confidence in this new growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 4, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2013 I think it would be good if PAEA mandated 1,000 HCE hours for incoming applicants, just like they are mandating Masters' degrees. That would balance things out a bit more toward experienced mid-career health professionals, and might restrict the supply of new PA's somewhat... but would certainly benefit patients and keep quality up. GOOD IDEA, although I would make it 2000 hrs and not allow stuff like scribe, medical receptionist, phlebotomy and other low level experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted February 4, 2013 Administrator Share Posted February 4, 2013 GOOD IDEA, although I would make it 2000 hrs and not allow stuff like scribe, medical receptionist, phlebotomy and other low level experience. Heh. I only broke 2,000 hours my first application cycle if I counted my First-Aid level workplace emergency response team involvement. I broke 2,000 EMT-B hours on my successful second CASPA application. Pacific only required 1K, but I think the vast majority of us met the 2K mark. Certainly a far cry from "recommended" or mandated shadowing hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will352ns Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Quality shouldn't go down. I think most folks in the PA community are afraid of having same problems that the NP community has with non-standardized training. I don't think it will apply to PA's due to the way our governing bodies are set up. One of the reasons I went the PA route was the standardized training. While there is some variance with schools, they all have to go through the years of scrutiny by the only governing board for PA programs, the ARCPA. From everything I have researched, there is little difference between PA programs. This is in contrast to the NP route where there are three different organizations that can accredit a school....mom says no, ask dad. Also, all PA students must pass the one and only certification exam (PANCE). Again, this is different to NP's because they have a couple of organizations that they can use to gain their licensure. I'm not bashing NP's, but their problems with training are well known. Quality won't go down...every school must get accreditied and every student must pass the PANCE. It is just a worry about a flood in the market, "if" these schools get accredited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 4, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2013 Relax....There still will not be enough pcp's even if we double the number of pa/np/md/do students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will352ns Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Relax....There still will not be enough pcp's even if we double the number of pa/np/md/do students. I remember similar sentiments about PharmD. Just saying. Although, I wouldn't think PA's will have the depth of the problems they have. Who knows.... I have no regrets....school starts in four months...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyerkl Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I do agree that it may be an overreaction but I think we should be concerned and express these opinions to AAPA. In the area I live in there are SEVEN PA schools within 1.5 hours. Getting a job may be easy in another year but slowly new grads with saturate the field and pay will decrease. I have talked to several PAs at local hospitals who have said it is difficult to switch positions now because there are always new grads willing to take those spots for much less pay. PAs are in high demand but that is a good thing for us. That way we have more control over our career and can easily find jobs/negotiate salaries. A few more programs in areas that need PAs is a good thing. But 80 programs? That's way too much. The field is in danger of becoming over-saturated just like nursing and pharmacy. I think it is important to send your concerns to AAPA regarding this growth in order to prevent problems in the future (aapa@aapa.org). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Bars Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Well, this is potentially great new for me as I am a marginal PA candidate. My grades were on the low side 20 years ago and now I've turned things around and I want a shot at being a PA. It will be a lot more interesting than going into respiratory therapy, I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjl12 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Uhh... if there are 80 new PA programs created in the next 20 years there will be over-saturation. In the next 3-5 years, 80 new programs... prepare to graduate with debt and without a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 5, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2013 actually , prepare to not work in a big city and instead work where pa's were designed to work, underserved areas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjl12 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 actually , prepare to not work in a big city and instead work where pa's were designed to work, underserved areas.... I have zero issues with this. But I don't understand how there could be any potential positions available if ~80 new schools pop up in the next 5 years. Far too short of a time span and far too many schools. That's like... ~2500 MORE new graduates, in addition to the quantity that already exists, each year. How can any market accommodate this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 6, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2013 i have zero issues with this. But i don't understand how there could be any potential positions available if ~80 new schools pop up in the next 5 years. Far too short of a time span and far too many schools. That's like... ~2500 more new graduates, in addition to the quantity that already exists, each year. How can any market accommodate this? all the baby boomers will need folks to see them....2500 providers is a drop in the bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TThielen Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Plus add to that the fact that ~30 million more Americans will be covered with health insurance under Obamacare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBA2bPA Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Yes, I am completely new here:heheh:, but I would say oversaturation will only occur if the supply of PAs being produced exceeds the demand required. We can do some simple math and come up with an estimate of grads but it's much harder to predict the demand for PAs, particularly since demand is constrained by infrastructure which takes much longer to catch up with growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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